Bimmerfest BMW banner

1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
blubb blubb blubb
Joined
·
1,168 Posts
Idunno. The only true, persistent lock ups I've seen are when the ABS system fails completely. Usually, that's along with other electronic malfunctions. Not sure why it might happen for temporary little bits. Maybe a little lock before ABS kicks in?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
They don't have ABS. The recent rule change was to allow traction control or, more precisely, launch control. They tried to ban them both but the rich teams kept finding ways to cheat on the launch control so in the interest of fairness, they rescinded the ban. As far as I know ABS is still banned.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,573 Posts
I think mffitz is right. F1 cars don't have ABS by FIA regulation. I don't think they've every had it, even back in the active days.
 

·
zeddy
Joined
·
7,668 Posts
SteveT said:
I think mffitz is right. F1 cars don't have ABS by FIA regulation. I don't think they've every had it, even back in the active days.
That's right, and furthermore.......

Race drivers HATE ABS. The best drivers can modulate the brake pedal much more effectively than an abs system. When I've taken the Skip Barber courses, I've seen the instructors, by artful and GRACEFUL manipulation of the brake pedal stop shorter with ABS off ( this is called threshold braking).

In fact, braking technique, today, has become one of the most, and in some cases, the MOST important aspect of turning a fast lap.

Braking systems on these cars are capable of huge g forces - an average F1 car can accelerate to 100 and back down to 0 mph in fewer than 8 seconds. Pretty astounding.

Also, ABS in a race car would be flat-out dangerous; there's an old axiom in racing: " when in a spin, both feet in". That means, when a spin is unrecoverable, the safest thing to do is LOCK up the wheels, free the clutch and let the car go "straight" to where it wants to go. It may hit something, but that's better than regaining traction and launching INTO something head on..... can you say Jason Priestly?

This post is in reponse to the original poster, not you, necessarily, Steve.

Ed
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,573 Posts
Ed,

Good comments for sure. Anyone who's attended a driving school or has been driving for more than 15 years will have learned about threshold braking. Now, with ABS, it's best to unlearn that. At least for the road. BMW's schools at the Performance Center teach you to use the ABS. I don't know what M-School stresses, but the Car Control Clinics and Delivery encourage you to depend on ABS. F1 and a professsional (highly skilled) driver would be a different story.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
20,151 Posts
Actually, at least Williams had ABS, and McLaren was working on it when the FIA banned it most other electronic driving aids.

As was pointed out, ABS is currently banned today, although traction control, launch control and pit-lane speed limiters (a form of traction control) is allowed.

Some speculation has also been that Renault has some form of electronic surveillance that allows their drivers to know exactly when the lights change at the start of the race. The FIA is apparently looking into ways to block this.

Patrick
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,397 Posts
Some speculation has also been that Renault has some form of electronic surveillance that allows their drivers to know exactly when the lights change at the start of the race. The FIA is apparently looking into ways to block this.
Um, isn't there already biological surveillance that tells the driver when the lights change... i.e. vision? :D

The lights are visible to all drivers on the grid, so the only way to cheat would be to have the car itself begin accellerating (or release brakes) automatically once the lights go out (thus eliminating the fraction of a second "nerve lag" of the driver). I can't see how a secondary visual or auditory indicator inside the cockpit would help.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
670 Posts
EdCT said:
there's an old axiom in racing: " when in a spin, both feet in". That means, when a spin is unrecoverable, the safest thing to do is LOCK up the wheels, free the clutch and let the car go "straight" to where it wants to go. It may hit something, but that's better than regaining traction and launching INTO something head on.
Good rule — shame I learned it after I spun my E36 M3, couldn't recover it, and then regained traction sideways on the road and pointed at a mountain. Totalled…(But I was okay, thank God).
 

·
into things retro
Joined
·
4,541 Posts
Don't F1 cars also . . .

have some special version of DRUM brakes? :dunno:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
979 Posts
Fi cars don't have ABS anymore. They used to have traction control, ABS, power steering, pre-programmed gear shifts, etc upto 1993, I think, before they were banned.

Without looking it up, I think electronic aids were banned for the 94 season. I am pretty sure that they were around in 1992, when Mansell won the championship.

The FIA conceeded to traction control again because it was getting very difficult to police the systems and there was a suspicion that some teams were using them. The problem was that some teams had the traction control logic in their software but were not using it. You can imagine what a can of worms that was.

Nobody in F1 uses drum brakes. For crying out loud, F1 is the pinnacle of technology, as much as the rules allow it. Last year, or was it early this year, Ferrari used a drum brake duct that reduced the turbulence within the wheel. Since then a number of teams have adopted it too. The brakes are still disk style, made by Hitco or Brembo, of the two manufacturers I know of.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
979 Posts
A couple of other things, I am not sure if the drivers hated it but if the team was using it, there was a performance advantage to it.

I do remember various critics saying that the cars were so automated that a chimp could drive them.

Well, guess what, it was still the top drivers, Senna, Prost, etc who were still winning everything.

As far as the rumoured system that Renault has, I have not read anything about it but I wouldn't discount it. The key would be to eliminating reaction time. Hook up a device to watch the lights in the pits, when they go off, send a signal to the car to launch. Two way telemetry is allowed, so why not?

Everything is legal until banned or you are caught using it.
 

·
into things retro
Joined
·
4,541 Posts
WAM said:

For crying out loud, F1 is the pinnacle of technology, as much as the rules allow it. .
I agree. Perhaps I misunderstood something when the question was posed to the Brembo US reps at our club meeting.
:dunno:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
678 Posts
WAM said:
Fi cars don't have ABS anymore. They used to have traction control, ABS, power steering, pre-programmed gear shifts, etc upto 1993, I think, before they were banned.

Without looking it up, I think electronic aids were banned for the 94 season. I am pretty sure that they were around in 1992, when Mansell won the championship.
As of 2000, power steering was/is legal. The only catch is that it has to be implemented in such a way that it just reduces the steering effort and can't be used to remotely control the car. I remember this because one of the drivers that was with a different team last year (Button maybe) was complaining that his new team didn't have it and his old team did. One of the F1 mags mentioned it too.
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top