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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Sounds like the AGC (automatic gain control) that switches between the two is off. But in this tech, that is all processor controlled and not manually controllable with a poti, like older descretic component electronic tech.
I cant recall, did you change the ccc unit? Fairly sure that has some of the tuner components and possibly the gain control.
No, I haven't touched it, bought it this way. I thought the speakers were piss poor, so I installed BavSound, only to realize it was my radio reception. Not that BavSound wasn't a fantastic upgrade, but I may have been happy with the stock speakers.

Anyway I digress. I'm not a radio guy, but I am a uP/firmware guy, so I can maybe keep up a little. Have you heard of the AGC going out on these before?
 

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Yep, I've seen it in other head decks where you want to receive 98.4 FM (NZ even frequencies) and you have to tune to 98.45 as the RF or IF strip has drifted slightly.
The one in my vehicle is slightly off, but not a full digit and not across the full range, so some stations tune ok (stronger side bands) and others don't. But seen as I'd rather listen to a Spotify playlist, I haven't bothered with it as the whole CCC unit would need to be replaced (VIN changed and coding etc) or a person with the correct schematic diagrams and alignment gear would need to inject a signal and align the few RF & IF items that can be adjusted.
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
So you're thinking this is a head unit issue, rather than diversity antenna? was hoping to replace the DA and be done with it?
 

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You could upgrade to a CIC, or go the Android route. The android route would be cheaper & faster to get up & running. I am not totally up to date on which unit has worked the best, but this would solve your problem. This would also give you an option to add a rear view camera for around 100.00. Once the Android unit is installed, you would have lots of options for listening to anything you would like. You would also have Google Maps up & running, with real time Nav. Our CCC units just suck! The NBT option would be very complicated, based on what others have tried. There are just to many differences in the new & old head units, that require way to much tweaking.
 

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From my experience, yes, I think head deck. Especially as mine does a similar thing. The Ants are active, and like anything thats powered, can play up, but its Occams razor.
I agree with Herb and personally went the Android head deck route. Google maps and greater access to radio via the internet etc.
 

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From my experience, yes, I think head deck. Especially as mine does a similar thing. The Ants are active, and like anything thats powered, can play up, but its Occams razor.
I agree with Herb and personally went the Android head deck route. Google maps and greater access to radio via the internet etc.
Which unit did you buy, & how has it been working? Was there any compatibility problems with the CCC, & does it have a rear view camera input?
 

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From Hifimax.net
The E60 5 series ones work in our 6's
I've had it for over a year in the 650 and another one in the F25 X3 for over 2-years. So CCC & CIC versions.
No compatible problems, just a bit of setting up and experimenting with the factory settings in the initial stages. Fortunately Paul and the team include the code for the factory settings with the unit. Both have Sim slot and anti- glare coatings plus the reverse camera input. But if your 6 has the TV tuner, you can wire the camera to it, and set the screen to use "factory" camera instead. Either way the PDC is still displayed.
Overall the unit is great and I'm very happy with them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 · (Edited)
I'm confused on where the FM tuner actually resides. It appears the FM path is:

Defogger wires ---> Antenna Amp ---> Diversity Antenna ---> IBOC Module ---> ??????? ------> Audio Controller ---> Amplifier -------> Speakers

or maybe DA before AA

Defogger wires ---> Diversity Antenna -----> Antenna Amp ---> IBOC Module ---> ??????? ------> Audio Controller ---> Amplifier -------> Speakers


But not sure if FM tunning ends with the IBOC Module, or if there is further work done at the Audio Controller? Seems the Audio Controller would select the channel, and that would then command the IBOC Module to lock in on a channel and feed it back to the Audio Controller or possibly, directly to the Amplifier.
 

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Not sure if this might help?

CCC diagnosis: E60, E61, E63, E64, E70, E87, E90, E91, E92, E93, R56
Car Communication Computer diagnosis: E60, E61, E63, E64, E70, E87, E90, E91, E92, E93, R56

Fault recognition

The CCC comprises the following control units:
-CCC aerial tuner (CCC-ANT)
-CCC applications (CCC-A)
-CCC user interface (CCC-BO)
-CCC audio system controller (CCC-ASK)
-CCC gateway (CCC-GW)

Each control unit is equipped with test programs for fault recognition. If a fault develops, this will be entered in the corresponding fault memory. Not all test programs are executed in running mode. For each control unit there are additional test programs (self-test and system test) that have to be started separately. These additional test programs are also able to make entries in the fault memories. For a complete and thorough diagnosis, the test programs in the individual control units must be run before the fault code memories are checked. These test programs are automatically run in the existing test schedules for the CCC.

Note: Test program for malfunctions without fault memory, restructured from DIS-DVD 46.0.

From DIS-DVD 46.0, the test program for malfunctions without fault memory has been restructured. Depending on the software status, known fault patterns are displayed in a catalogue along with actions for fault elimination.

Self-tests
-CCC aerial tuner (CCC-ANT)
  • Hardware for CCC-ANT
  • Connection to aerial diversity
  • RAM for CCC-ANT
  • Internal voltage: 8.5 V
-CCC applications (CCC-A)
  • Hardware for navigation system
  • Flash memory for file system
  • RAM for navigation system
  • Flash memory for navigation system
  • Power supply for navigation system
  • Voltage for yaw-rate sensor
  • Yaw-rate sensor condition
-CCC user interface (CCC-BO)
  • Hardware for CCC-BO
  • Connection to DVD drive
  • Flash memory for CCC-BO
  • Internal SDRAM for CCC-BO
  • External SDRAM for CCC-BO
  • Operating system initialisation
-CCC audio system controller (CCC-ASK)
  • Hardware for CCC-ASK
  • RAM for CCC-ASK
  • Flash memory for CCC-ASK
  • EEPROM for CCC-ASK
  • Connection to CD-ROM/MD drive
-CCC gateway (CCC-GW)
  • Hardware for CCC-GW
  • RAD_ON signal
  • CCC internal voltage
  • SRAM for CCC-GW
  • EEPROM for CCC-GW
  • Temperatures in CCC (without DVD drive)

System tests
-CCC aerial tuner (CCC-ANT)
  • CCC internal connections
  • Connection to aerial diversity
-CCC applications (CCC-A)
  • Connection to GPS aerial
  • Connections to navigation system
-CCC user interface (CCC-BO)
  • Hardware for CCC-BO
  • Video signal input
  • LVDS to Central Information Display
  • CAN bus
  • Internal MOST bus
  • Voice recognition system (Loop_Back_Test)
-CCC audio system controller (CCC-ASK)
  • Microphone
  • Mute signal wire
  • Audio signal input/output
  • Telephone connection
  • Voice recognition system (Loop_Back_Test)
  • CCC internal connections
-CCC gateway (CCC-GW)
  • Hardware for CCC-GW
  • CAN bus
  • MOST bus
  • Fan
  • Connections to loudspeakers
  • Terminal 58g (locating light)

Control unit functions
-CCC aerial tuner (CCC-ANT)
  • ”Aerials self-test” diagnosis query
    The ”Aerials self-test” diagnosis query must be started in the control unit functions before the result can be extracted. Otherwise the ”Defect” message will always be displayed.

-CCC applications (CCC-A)
  • ”Voice output” diagnosis query
    Default value for European and US versions: ready
    Default value for Japanese version: not ready (not R56)
  • ”Voice recognition” diagnosis query
    Default value for European and US versions: ready
    Default value for Japanese version: not ready (not R56)

-CCC audio system controller (CCC-ASK)
  • ”Microphone test” diagnosis query
    Start the ”Microphone test” by pressing ”Display”. A signal sounds. If the signal is muted, end the diagnosis query by pressing ”Display” again. If ”Not connected” is displayed for the test, restart the ”Microphone test”. While the signal sounds, other noises must be made in the direction of the microphone.
    If a TOP-HIFI amplifier is fitted, no signal will sound. The ”Microphone test” can only be conducted if noises are made in the direction of the microphone.
    If ”Not connected” is displayed for the test, check the encoding. If the encoding is correct, check the connection from the microphone to the CCC using the circuit diagram. If the connection is correct, replace the microphone.

-Fault type
  • Fault
    No sound, loudspeakers correctly fitted (e.g. if TOP-HIFI amplifier is fitted but CCC is encoded for stereo).
  • Fault elimination
    Check CCC encoding and change as necessary.

-CCC reset
Reset the CCC as follows, as instructed in the test module:
  • Simultaneously press the rotary push button and the eject buttons for the CD-ROM/MD drive and the DVD drive.

-Favourites buttons
E70 and E93 from start of series production
The favourites buttons (programmable buttons) can be diagnosed through a control unit function.
 

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Components connected to the Car Communication Computer (CCC)

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-Fan
-MOST framework
-Loudspeakers (not with Top HiFi system)
-Central Information Display (CID)
-Radio aerial
-GPS aerials
-Microphone
-Video input

Fan

To test the fan, it is activated with maximum speed. After a startup period of 5 seconds, the speed is measured.


-Maximum speed: approx. 7000 rpm
-Speed > 4200 rpm => fan OK
-Speed < 4200 rpm => fan defective
-Speed = 0 rpm => fan might not be connected

MOST framework

In this test step, there is a check as to whether the MOST framework is currently closed. If it is determined that the MOST framework is open, the user is referred to the test module 'MOST ring fault diagnosis'.


Speaker
To test the function of the loudspeakers, test tones with the following frequencies are issued:

-50 Hz bass tone to activate the sub-woofer
-500 Hz tone to activate the medium-range loudspeaker
-10,000 Hz tone to activate the tweeter

With a Top HiFi system, the loudspeakers are not activated directly by the CCC. In this case, the activation comes from the Top HiFi amplifier. The Top HiFi amplifier is connected via the MOST bus to the CCC.

These test tones can also be used to localise disruptive noise in the panels (rattles, clattering) caused by the loudspeakers.

CID
To check the connection from the CCC to the CID, the following tests are run.

-The fault code memory entry ”A468 external break in wiring (LVDS data line)” indicates that the LVDS data line of the CID is not connected.
-The CCC creates a test card at the CID. If the test card can be seen on the CID, the CID is properly connected to the CCC and is functional.

Radio aerials
To check function of the radio aerials, the following tests are run.

-The fault code memory entry ”DAD2 diversity not connected” indicates an interruption in the connection from the CCC to the aerial diversity.
-The aerial self-test is started and queried. If a fault is displayed, there is a problem with the aerial structure or the connection from the CCC to the aerial structure. The fault ”DAD2 diversity not connected” must not be entered in the fault code memory.

GPS aerial
This test step checks whether the GPS aerial is properly connected and functioning. The fault code memory entry ”A054 GPS aerial not connected” also indicates a problem with the GPS aerial. In the event of a negative result, the connection to the GPS aerial must be checked.

Microphone
To test the microphone, the CCC or Top HiFi amplifier issues a test tone that is received by the microphone. If a Top HiFi system is fitted, no tone can be issued directly by the CCC. In this case, the test tone is created by the Top HiFi amplifier.


Video input


The video input at the CCC is monitored by the video module
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
Thanks Herb - I'll try digging in over there and see what comes up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
I looked around in ISTA for a while to see if there was some sort of test that could be run on the CCC, haven't found anything yet. So went back and re-read what this said, which leaves me a bit confused on definitions/meanings of some items.

Each control unit is equipped with test programs for fault recognition. If a fault develops, this will be entered in the corresponding fault memory.

Not all test programs are executed in running mode. - what is running mode?

For each control unit there are additional test programs (self-test and system test) that have to be started separately. Self test usually indicates the unit performs this w/o human intervention, but what is system test? And what does start separately mean?

These additional test programs are also able to make entries in the fault memories. For a complete and thorough diagnosis, the test programs in the individual control units must be run before the fault code memories are checked. These test programs are automatically run in the existing test schedules for the CCC.

Similar to last question, must be run means??? start separately??? Automatically run, existing test schedule?
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
Very interesting, can't wait to try this!! But, what do the results mean, this was from one of the tuner tests. wonder what BMW charges to run this little test at the dealership.......

Entering the test

Font Screenshot Display device Technology Electronic device


Mode A test results

Font Display device Auto part Multimedia Number
 

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If you were looking in ISTA not connected to the car, the ABL functions will not run. They must be run while connected, one by one. There also might be some other test in the Service Functions menu that might help. I think you are headed down the road with a better understanding of the CCC system was never a good system, & had many short falls. The CIC update will certainly help, but maybe headed to the Android path might be a better choice. I did glance at the one in the link, but it is showing UK sales, not US. I am sure the same unit is probably available in the US, you just need to read a lot of reviews to get what fits you best. To gather all of the parts for the CIC, the parts are probably close to 350.00. You will need to program everything your self, or pay some one online to do it. Even the CIC will fall short of the current platform of NBT, but there are to many conflicting problems with the NBT for our cars. BMW replaced my complete CCC under warranty back in 2009, & nothing worked any better.
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
  • I did have ISTA connected, but admittedly, don't know my way around it very well. Not sure what ABL functions are, or what Service Functions menu is.
  • I'm unclear if Android will get you FM reception, I'm guessing you give that up. (like my local radio station)
  • Also unclear on what gets replaced/installed when you go Android. Just the display, or is there more?
 

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I have been doing some reading on this the last couple of nights, & there are several different types of installs. Most of the units are in the 400 to 500.00 range, with a rear view camera. Some of the units replace the display, & have the components built into the display. I can't say for sure if this will fix your reception problem, but I would bet it would. Roseng should have some insight on this, as he is our sound system expert here on the forum. I am willing to spend the 500.00 just for the rear view camera, & a update Nav screen that woks off of Google Maps. There should be several threads to read here across the forum, that should give us plenty of good reviews to read. No matter which way you go to update with a CIC, or Android unit, 500.00 is a pretty good number to work with. I don't remember people complaining about the CIC systems having reception problems, so I think our system is just outdated to say the least!
 

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The Android unit I mentioned previously just replaces the screen. So you still use the factory LVDS plug, for all the factory functions.
The Android functions are built in to the screen and are accessed by a long press of the iDrive "menu" button or holding your finger on the screen.
The screen comes with a break-in plug & socket wiring harness, for the back of the ccc, the square fakra plug. All you need to do is shift the MOST bus fibre optics from the factory plug to break-in harness plug. The "T" junction wiring from this harness then powers the screen. The screen has a separate plug and socket for the other accessories such as USBs, rev camera, dash cam input, mic etc.
It fairly easy to install, and if you watch a couple of YT vids from hifimax or others, showing how to install first, you'll be fine.
Its a great upgrade.
I've also seen a different upgrade option, a seperate add in box, that gives you just Android Auto or Apple car play to the Factory display. But the pricing seems to similar to the Android screen, which with the additional functions of the screen, I personally can see the benifit of adding just Android Auto.
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 · (Edited)
Finally made it here. Ran ECU function tests for the CCC-ANT ECU. Arial Self Test says faulty (first test), does this refer to the DA?

UPDATE: Ran same test on E60, it also says faulty Aerial self test. FM sounds fantastic in my E60. Maybe this is something else.

Font Software Screenshot Display device Multimedia
 
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