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Discussion Starter #1
I bought a 2011 BMW X5 xDrive35d with ~92,000 miles from BMW of Tucson on 9/3. The afternoon of 9/4 I had a check engine light come on. I took it to an auto part store and they pulled code P20EE. I took it to BMW of Las Vegas on 9/6 (9/4 was a Sunday and 9/5 was a holiday). They initially thought it was a sensor and replaced it but the issue was not resolved. They determined 9/7 that it was the catalytic converter and would check with the Auto Nation warranty on coverage on 9/8. Found out 9/8 BMW of Tucson didn't input my information and the car wasn't being found for warranty. I spent a lot of 9/8 calling BMW of Tucson trying to find out who needs to resolve the issue. 9/9 they were able to order the parts under the warranty. The parts arrived 9/13 and they started working on the issue, but later had to stop. Apparently there was already aftermarket catalytic converters on my car and they didn't notice before. So as of today, 9/14, they are still trying to figure out who is covering the parts/repairs.

I have a wedding to attend 9/17 and will be leaving 9/16 and still don't have my X5 back. I partially bought this vehicle so I could have more space for the road trip to the wedding. It will be fixed and covered, but this whole situation has been a disaster. I've had nothing but trouble trying to get a hold of anyone at the BMW dealerships. I typically wait around 2 or more hours for a call back and end up calling again. The only people that seem to answer the phone are the receptionist and the parts department. Even the sales people have been hard to get a hold of at times. I'd go to an independent shop if the car hadn't been purchased so recently and it wasn't under a 60 day warranty. Is this part of the BMW dealership experience?

Based on the fact there are aftermarket catalytic converters, I assume they were already replaced at some point. I believe the vehicle was serviced by a non-BMW place between 50,000 and 90,000 miles. So I have no real record of the services that were completed during that time. Unfortunately I don't have the CarFax on hand to verify when or where it was serviced. I've read about emissions control issues on these vehicles, but is this normal?

I loved driving the X5 for the couple days I had it, but this is very discouraging. [/End Rant]
 

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While I can appreciate your frustration at being put out by lack of phone calls and the prospect of road trips and cars, the fact is that you didnt get a PPI and brought a car with problems- you are in fact lucky you are getting it fixed!

BMW of Tuscon is pulling a fast one- basically a car with known issues and they slammed it into a warranty when you bought it so now the warranty company can pay the bill. There is fraud at play here.

Somehow they discovered aftermarket cats?!?!? Please. They either knew or SHOULD HAVE KNOWN. They are experts at this, in a court it will be hard for them to claim 'how could we have known?'...

And you are annoyed they dont answer the calls. No wonder they dont want to talk, they are defrauding AutoNation.

Be careful...this can all come crashing down on you. BMW of las vegas circles the wagons to protect themselves- notifies BMW of Tuscon...then notifies autonation. Then autonation declines coverage and BMW of Tuscon says "sorry, car sold as is- talk to our lawyers".


having said that, it is very unusual for cats to go bad under 100k...in fact it is almost always due to some other issue causing cat damage, but an bad mechanic only reading OBD codes and thinking 'cat is bad'...
 

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There was no CEL when I purchased the vehicle. I drove it around 500 miles before it came on. They do have a "This vehicle is Worry Free. It includes a limited warranty, a Money-Back Guarantee and is Recall-Free." statement on their vehicles and supposedly go through an inspection process prior to sale. Unfortunately the money-back guarantee is 5 days and 250 miles. I had to drive it over 400 miles just to get it home so that was gone the same day I purchased it. Their limited warranty is 60 days and unlimited miles and is supposed to cover mostly just the engine and transmission. BMW of Tucson and BMW of Las Vegas are both owned by Auto Nation and the warranty is through Auto Nation as well so it doesn't seem like a warranty fraud issue.
 

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There was no CEL when I purchased the vehicle. I drove it around 500 miles before it came on. They do have a "This vehicle is Worry Free. It includes a limited warranty, a Money-Back Guarantee and is Recall-Free." statement on their vehicles and supposedly go through an inspection process prior to sale. Unfortunately the money-back guarantee is 5 days and 250 miles. I had to drive it over 400 miles just to get it home so that was gone the same day I purchased it. Their limited warranty is 60 days and unlimited miles and is supposed to cover mostly just the engine and transmission. BMW of Tucson and BMW of Las Vegas are both owned by Auto Nation and the warranty is through Auto Nation as well so it doesn't seem like a warranty fraud issue.
You have no idea what CELs were on the day or week before you purchased it.

I guess the "inspection process" doesnt include a mechanic putting it on a lift and looking up?

Just because there is an entity called "Auto Nation" that is involved with the dealers and with the warranty, the corporate structures may be different- my point is that YOU can be on the short end of the stick.

If it were me, Id want nothing to do with that car- a car with OE CATS hacked off, for some unknown reason, you are NOT getting the full story- Id want nothing to do with it.

I was actually not aware that there IS a non OE SCR cat for a diesel...since when? I repeat- this is a diesel SCR cat- IS THERE SUCH THING AS AN AFTERMARKET OPTION? If no, someone is lying to you

Finally, this sounds like a diesel emissions nightmare that was never properly diagnosed...bad thermostat, always running cool? DPF and cat issues? you think autonation mechanics can handle this? Even BMW techs are blowing it with these new diesel motors....

I know this isnt helping, but I want you to understand what you may be dealing with...
 

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FYI, i missed that this was a diesel in your first post....
 

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It's not that uncommon to have problems with DPF at this mileage.
Also I don't think it's that easy to spot an aftermarket one, not very well visible.

OP, hope you get your car back soon and then you don't need to worry about this for another 100k miles.
 

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It's not that uncommon to have problems with DPF at this mileage.
Also I don't think it's that easy to spot an aftermarket one, not very well visible.

OP, hope you get your car back soon and then you don't need to worry about this for another 100k miles.
I really dont know: are their aftermaret DPFs and SCR CATs for bmw x5s yet? I have yet to see a non-OE SCR cat.

If indeed there is no such thing as 'an aftermarket SCR cat", then everything the dealer says is ????
 

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Discussion Starter #8
So BMW of Las Vegas had the part since Tuesday afternoon and were just waiting for approval to install it. They didn't want to be stuck paying for the parts because they got an OEM part to replace an "aftermarket" part. I finally ended up calling BMW of Tucson yesterday and talked to the sales manager and service manager. They said they would look into it and talk to BMW of Las Vegas and get it taken care of. Today I called BMW of Las Vegas and they said they e-mailed the service director and were waiting to hear back but he was supposedly traveling. I called BMW of Tucson and they said they already gave approval. They texted the service director and he said he was aware of the issue and had already approved it. One of the sales guys at BMW of Tucson said they could just call and talk to him or the service manager for approval if they want to. I called BMW of Las Vegas and my service adviser and let him know what BMW of Tucson told me. He said he'd talk to his manager and find out about it. I called BMW of Las Vegas about 30 minutes later and they told me they received approval. BMW of Tucson called me back shortly after to make sure I knew they had talked to BMW of Las Vegas and gave approval. It took basically two days for them to get approval. Every time I talked to BMW of Tucson it wasn't a big issue and they looked into it. I'm not sure why BMW of Las Vegas couldn't make those phone calls themselves for approval.
 

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They didn't want to be stuck paying for the parts because they got an OEM part to replace an "aftermarket" part. .
There is no such thing as an "aftermarket SCR cat for a BMW X5 Diesel"...

while there are plenty of aftermarket cats for GAS cars, nobody has made one for the diesel.

IMO the reason it is taking so long is that they arent telling you the truth about much of what is really going on. OTOH, 'why attribute to malice that which can be explained by simple incompetence?'...

hope you get it sorted.
 

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There is no such thing as an "aftermarket SCR cat for a BMW X5 Diesel"...
it's very common to pinch a hole in it once it get's clogged. maybe that's what they discovered. Could be an aftermarket catalytic converter with no DPF.
 

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It's not that uncommon to have problems with DPF at this mileage.
Also I don't think it's that easy to spot an aftermarket one, not very well visible.

OP, hope you get your car back soon and then you don't need to worry about this for another 100k miles.
It is common if driven in city a lot and having bad thermostat for a long time. DPF failure in BMW when everything is OK is really, really rare.
I am not talking about active/passive tanks, but DPF.
 

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it's very common to pinch a hole in it once it get's clogged. maybe that's what they discovered. Could be an aftermarket catalytic converter with no DPF.
Do you know of ANY aftermarket diesel SCR cats...with or without DPF?????

My assertion (and happy to be shown to be wrong) is that there is NO SUCH THING- nobody has yet made an aftermarket Diesel SCR catalytic converter.

So, is there such a beast? Ive not found one.
 

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Do you know of ANY aftermarket diesel SCR cats...with or without DPF?????

My assertion (and happy to be shown to be wrong) is that there is NO SUCH THING- nobody has yet made an aftermarket Diesel SCR catalytic converter.

So, is there such a beast? Ive not found one.
I have not seen aftermarket SCR cat here in the U.S. There are a lot of questions about that car.
However, buying car that has buyback guarantee of 250mls is really interesting.
 

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Do you know of ANY aftermarket diesel SCR cats...with or without DPF?????

My assertion (and happy to be shown to be wrong) is that there is NO SUCH THING- nobody has yet made an aftermarket Diesel SCR catalytic converter.

So, is there such a beast? Ive not found one.
Haha, you haven't been to Europe where the majority of the cars are diesel. People can get very creative when it comes to cost saving.

OP should ask for the old part after replacement to see what it is.
 

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Haha, you haven't been to Europe where the majority of the cars are diesel. People can get very creative when it comes to cost saving.

OP should ask for the old part after replacement to see what it is.
I have.

Do tell us about the widespread use of SCR cats on BMW cars in europe.

OP cannot 'ask for the part' since it is being done at no cost.

The real point of this is 'can it be proven the dealer is lying based on the FACT that there is no such thing as an 'aftermarket cat' for an SCR diesel?'
 

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Discussion Starter #18
So after getting approval for the repairs at 10:30AM they didn't start work until 2:30PM and told me it wasn't going to be ready until 9/16 around lunch time. I had to leave 9/16 at 9:00AM to drive 5 hours for a wedding so that wasn't an option. Called back and spoke with the service manager, got a call shortly after from the service adviser saying it would be done 9/15 at 7:00PM and I could pick it up 9/16 at 8:00AM. Went and picked it up and everything seems to be fixed. I drive about 600 miles this weekend and no check engine light or other issues.

The invoice they gave me lists the part as "RP-EXHAUST PIPE CATALYTIC CO:182029" at a cost of $927.71, which is much less than the $2,000 he kept telling me about.
 

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Thanks for reporting back.
So it was really the catalytic converter, not the DPF. Interesting, I didn't expect that since these last long.

Nice to hear it's running fine. Enjoy your car!
 

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Thanks for reporting back.
So it was really the catalytic converter, not the DPF. Interesting, I didn't expect that since these last long.

Nice to hear it's running fine. Enjoy your car!
I've read catalytic converters typically last 100k miles. I assume it might be different with a Diesel. But if there really was an aftermarket one already, the big question is why is it on the 3rd one at only ~92k miles.
 
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