[767jetz]

Yup, sounds about right.
How many people here on these forums think that the C6 Corvette is a positive world-beater sports car?

Funny you should mention the Corvette. I was never a "Chevy guy" but have always said that the C6 is one that I would buy. Before I decided to add to my criteria a back seat, 4 doors, and AWD, the C6 was on my short list. So was the Porsche Boxster S and even a used Z06.

 

[Interested]

Back to the Article

I am considering the 335XI this fall, and read the article with great interest. Not because I would consider buying either one of the other cars, but I was very curious to see how the 335 would do compared such raw, purpose-built "rally cars". The fact that it could hang w/ these cars "in the mud" while possessing all of the BMW refinement was impressive. The bimmer also beat them (however slightly) in every performance measure except 30-70 MPH acceleration.

The premise of the article was based on a fictional character (Jason) who had all of the demographics of the likely EVO/STI buyer who might also consider the Bimmer since the price of these two cars has come up to a point where the diff is not what it used to be.

In the end, the writer's fictional character was leaning towards Germany for his next car.

 

[mlaynemd]

The premise of the article was based on a fictional character (Jason) who had all of the demographics of the likely EVO/STI buyer who might also consider the Bimmer since the price of these two cars has come up to a point where the diff is not what it used to be.

In the end, the writer's fictional character was leaning towards Germany for his next car.

I was under the impression that "Jason" was in-fact the author of the article and a junior editor with Automobile mag. Not true?

ML

 

[Interested]

I was under the impression that "Jason" was in-fact the author of the article and a junior editor with Automobile mag. Not true?

ML

He may have been both. I can't remember, and am at the office so I don't have the mag handy. I was also reading on Sunday morning after having been in the caribbean for the past week, so I may have still been under the influence of Don Julio! :eeps:

 

[void.crusader]

The bimmer also beat them (however slightly) in every performance measure except 30-70 MPH acceleration.

And how about braking and lateral grip?

70-0mph Braking:
BMW 335xi-161ft
Mitsubishi Lancer Evo-160ft
Subaru WRX STI-159ft

Cornering L/R (g)
BMW 335xi-.91/.95g
Mitsubishi Lancer Evo-1.03/1.03g
Subaru WRX STI-.96/.95g

 

[Nikolas]

And how about braking and lateral grip?

70-0mph Braking:
BMW 335xi-161ft
Mitsubishi Lancer Evo-160ft
Subaru WRX STI-159ft

Cornering L/R (g)
BMW 335xi-.91/.95g
Mitsubishi Lancer Evo-1.03/1.03g
Subaru WRX STI-.96/.95g

I would call the braking result a 3 way tie due to how close they are and the variances in that sort of testing.

No question on the cornering with the footnote of RFT tires compared to the track ready tires that come on both the EVO and the STI. I'll bet given the same tires, the results for these comparisons would be different.

 

[Interested]

And how about braking and lateral grip?

70-0mph Braking:
BMW 335xi-161ft
Mitsubishi Lancer Evo-160ft
Subaru WRX STI-159ft

Cornering L/R (g)
BMW 335xi-.91/.95g
Mitsubishi Lancer Evo-1.03/1.03g
Subaru WRX STI-.96/.95g

You are correct. The footnote on the braking is that the bimma weighs more, and still achieves basically the "same" results. You are right on the Evo and lateral g measure. The 335 and the Subbie are about the same there also.

Again, the big "win" in my eyes is that a bigger, more refined/comfortable 335 can play in their yard, and still be what those cars can never be.

 

[Unagi1]

+1, braking difference by 2 feet? That's not even 2%. As for skidpad numbers, I usually ignore that and look at the slalom figures (I have the magazine article). As mentioned countless times here on the board, the stock RFTs suck, etc. etc.

I also thought about cross-shopping between the Evo and the 335xi. In the end though, I decided I wanted a coupe and also wasn't comfortable with the added weight on the xi.

It seems to me that some people are sure putting a lot of stock in the new Evo. It's a brand new engine, so there could be reliability issues down the road. If anyone here remembers Mitsu lore there was the 2nd gen 4g63 which had horrible crank walk issues. I used to live in DSM country back in the midwest and have lots of experience looking at other people's Mitsus that broke down for no apparent reason. Hoses that could not stay tied down, stuff that would break off. I hate to say it but that sort of shoddiness in a manufacturer does not just disappear overnight.

 

[BIGGY]

getz
I believe all Car and Driver editors are well past 40, but they still like the EVO: "drives like nothing else in the world".
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...cer_evolution_gsr_first_drive_review/(page)/1

Is it that hard to judge just the car alone, not the kids which sometimes drive it?
Because, you see, there is a lot of jerkoffs driving bmws on the roads today (Im not implying you are one of them, of course). Is it makes bmw less capable machine? Hell no. But the same applies to EVO.

And I advice you to stop personal attacks on me. It's easy to talk tough on the internet forum, but I doubt you can do the same in person.

I'm not sure the comparison is fair in terms of anything outside the track. We're talking rally style car from a street sport coupe. Different suspension giving you a stiffer ride in the EVO. More or less if you want a stronger or stiffer ride and more bang for your buck then of course the EVO is the way to go. If you want a fine line between street and sport then the 335 is the way to go. The comparisons can be made on the track, but they pretty much end there it would seem, no?

 

[void.crusader]

I would call the braking result a 3 way tie due to how close they are and the variances in that sort of testing.

No question on the cornering with the footnote of RFT tires compared to the track ready tires that come on both the EVO and the STI. I'll bet given the same tires, the results for these comparisons would be different.

Braking is tie of course, the point was bimmer didn't "beat them" there.

It would be interesting to see 335xi with really sticky tires like PS2, but it's not necessary will catch with EVO. At least part of the lateral grip comes from chassis and advanced electronics.

E92 M3 with PS2 pulls 0.91
RS4 with PS2 pulls 0.87
But 911 turbo with PS2 - 0.98
And EVO with Advans - 0.97

Again, the big "win" in my eyes is that a bigger, more refined/comfortable 335 can play in their yard, and still be what those cars can never be.

Road & Track, slalom, mph:
Enzo Ferrari - 73.0
EVO MR - 72.4
EVO GSR - 71.7
E92 M3 - 71.4
335i - 68.7

You can't have it all, both comfort & performance.

 

[Unagi1]

Good ol' C&D:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...of_2008_30_000_to_40_000_feature+page-10.html

Yet another win for the incumbent

:roundel:

 

[graystone]

Whats with the "take the $10,000 you save ..."

I have a 2007 335I sport and I payed $41,000 Euro delivery.......STI and EVO loaded Very close like $39000..So enough with the HOlY COW BMW is soooooexpensive.. you could buy a house with the savings junk
Now add on I pay nothing for oil windshield wiper brakes anything...Where dead even.
These car have steadily creaped up in price.

take that EVO &STI :violent:

 

[TMQ]

Before I read this, I never ever gave much thought to Mitusbishi.

BMW and Mitsu are two very different brands. A specialty vehicle like Evo may have many merits, but the roundel on the hood is worth a lot of things. Listen, it's not like all the Mitsubishi car are suddenly sporty. It's very difficult to engineer all the cars in the lineup that way.

And the key thing about BMW these days, it's not just the sport. It's the perfect blend of sport, comfort, luxury, and design that makes a BMW so unique. Sure, you can always find cars that cost less and post similar performance numbers. How many of us really race all the time? At the end of the day, what really matters is how one enjoys the driving experience, not just a bunch of numbers of 0-60 or corner g force.

If you are truly thinking about a BMW as a potential buy, this is a good place to be. If you are set on the Evo or STI, you should really visit those forums to get some info.

 

[born2bugu]

Aren't the BMW turbos made by Mitsubishi?

 

[getz]

Anyone else find the 30-70 results odd? A larger displacement engine with more available torque at low rpms taking longer doesn't make sense? Was this done in top gear? When you look at the disparity in 1/4 mile times and trap speed, it seems odd that the smaller motors would achieve 30-70 in such a significantly quicker time.
-Getz

 

[graystone]

I was thinking the same exact thing Getz... that is really weird if any area I would have thought that it would have done well there .. All I can think is the weight difference. but its already in motion..sooo:dunno:

 

[767jetz]

Yes, i believe the 30-70 test is done in top gear. So in this case it's a matter of gearing. In real world driving most people would down shift a gear or two. But 30-70 has been a long time test benchmark in the automotive world. I'm sure there is a reason, but not quite sure what it is.

On a different note, perhaps someone could clear this up. The Automobile article says that the 335xi torque bias is normally 40/60 front and rear. I thought I read in BMW's literature that it is biased 100% to the rear until traction is lost. Anyone know for sure?

 

[TexRob]

Anyone else find the 30-70 results odd? A larger displacement engine with more available torque at low rpms taking longer doesn't make sense? Was this done in top gear? When you look at the disparity in 1/4 mile times and trap speed, it seems odd that the smaller motors would achieve 30-70 in such a significantly quicker time.
-Getz

Considering the 335i smokes the E46 M3 in 30-70, it is odd (might even beat the new M3 in this test). It all comes down to gearing. I don't know the final drives, or if the Evo or STI have overdrive gears. If the BMW is done in 6th, and they don't have overdrives, that is retarded to not state that in the test.

I also thing a good point was made, the fact that xi owners are very different than i owners, at least in what cars they considered. I have zero desire to own an xi, even if it was cheaper I wouldn't want it. That's just me. Same reason I'd never buy a Lamborghini

 

[void.crusader]

On a different note, perhaps someone could clear this up. The Automobile article says that the 335xi torque bias is normally 40/60 front and rear. I thought I read in BMW's literature that it is biased 100% to the rear until traction is lost. Anyone know for sure?

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125792

40/60 in normal driving conditions, but 0/100 when parking or >180 kmh.

I think the only two AWDs with 0/100 at normal driving are Porsche and Nissan systems.

 

[mlaynemd]

True for the nissan. Is the x drive system in the 335xi the same as that in the X3 or X5?

ML