Hawk HPS vs Porterfield R4S brake pads
G
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Okay, I need new brake pads.
My criteria are:
-Appropriate for *some* track and autox - hence increased stopping power/fade resistence
-Rotor friendly - I plan on keeping my stock rotors
-No excessive squeal - I drive in high pedestrian areas where I don't want to have my car sound freakish
-Brake dust only somewhat greater than OEM pads - no excessive dusting
From what I've read, my aversion to squealing limits me to upgraded street pads. And from what I've read, it seems like it's down to the Porterfield R4S and Hawk HPS pads.
I'd love to hear feedback from anyone with any experience with either (both?).
Thanks in advance.
My criteria are:
-Appropriate for *some* track and autox - hence increased stopping power/fade resistence
-Rotor friendly - I plan on keeping my stock rotors
-No excessive squeal - I drive in high pedestrian areas where I don't want to have my car sound freakish
-Brake dust only somewhat greater than OEM pads - no excessive dusting
From what I've read, my aversion to squealing limits me to upgraded street pads. And from what I've read, it seems like it's down to the Porterfield R4S and Hawk HPS pads.
I'd love to hear feedback from anyone with any experience with either (both?).
Thanks in advance.
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I think you are going to have to be the bimmerfest guinea pig.
G
Yeah. It's unsettling that actual tech questions go unanswered around here. (But if Sabrina posts a sexual comment - look out.)
I have read the archives at bimmerforums extensively (which is how I got to this point) but I know if I ask there, I'll just get a rehash of what's in the archives. It seems 4 or 5 guys post the majority of content-rich responses and I've already read what they have to say.
It looks like a toss-up, even on price.
I have read the archives at bimmerforums extensively (which is how I got to this point) but I know if I ask there, I'll just get a rehash of what's in the archives. It seems 4 or 5 guys post the majority of content-rich responses and I've already read what they have to say.
It looks like a toss-up, even on price.
JPinTO said:
You won't get much of a response to this, most here are E46ers and use OEM pads....
I too will be facing the same problem eventually as full maintainance, which allows me to be on my 5th set of fronts and 3rd set of rears, will be up soon. I need something that will last.
You will be my brake guinea pig, do well.
about bimmerforums, there is SO much information about brake pads, it is overwhelming. You might just want to start a new thread with the same text as this one. You might want to think about using different pads for the street and using an agressive pad at the track. Maybe OEMs on the street and switch to a race pad for the driving schools you do. It doesn't seem that hard to swap pads for a few weekends a year. Get the E36 service manual and the proper tools, and you should be able to make the sap pretty quickly. Also, try some cryogenically treated OEM M3 brakes, maybe the euro E36 M3 rotors, I have heard excellent things about them. Much better wear and fade resistance.
I too will be facing the same problem eventually as full maintainance, which allows me to be on my 5th set of fronts and 3rd set of rears, will be up soon. I need something that will last.
You will be my brake guinea pig, do well.
about bimmerforums, there is SO much information about brake pads, it is overwhelming. You might just want to start a new thread with the same text as this one. You might want to think about using different pads for the street and using an agressive pad at the track. Maybe OEMs on the street and switch to a race pad for the driving schools you do. It doesn't seem that hard to swap pads for a few weekends a year. Get the E36 service manual and the proper tools, and you should be able to make the sap pretty quickly. Also, try some cryogenically treated OEM M3 brakes, maybe the euro E36 M3 rotors, I have heard excellent things about them. Much better wear and fade resistance.
This from the guy posting pics of guys puking in response to innocent post with spy pics of the z4? :tsk:
If you're really in a bind, you could always try one brand per side
TD said:
It sounds like you've come as close as you can to answering your question for yourself. Have you asked on the DCmetroBMW mail list?
If you're really in a bind, you could always try one brand per side
Most people here have new cars and are still under full maintenance. Did you try the .org E36M3 board.... surely there owners there who have tried both.
I don't know if you saw this post by Raffi: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8583&perpage=25&pagenumber=2
Surprisingly he comments that the RS4's are high dust and noisy.
I've heard great comments about the Axxis/Metal master pads being dust free & rotor friendly. Good street pad replacement, which probably isn't what you want.
Ultimately, as JST pointed out--- other people's opinions are going to vary, conflict and be next to useless. THere's probably no easy or cheap way to get a set of pads that will do exactly what you want without trying a bunch of them.
I don't know if you saw this post by Raffi: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8583&perpage=25&pagenumber=2
Surprisingly he comments that the RS4's are high dust and noisy.
I've heard great comments about the Axxis/Metal master pads being dust free & rotor friendly. Good street pad replacement, which probably isn't what you want.
Ultimately, as JST pointed out--- other people's opinions are going to vary, conflict and be next to useless. THere's probably no easy or cheap way to get a set of pads that will do exactly what you want without trying a bunch of them.
No insight here, either, though as I've mentioned I'm going to stick with the devil I know in the OEM pads. Since you drive the car every day, if I were you my priorities would be same or better performance, low noise, low dust, longer life, in that order. I think the Metalmasters are probably the best tradeoff given those criteria, but as you've probably noticed everyone says they are bad on the track. The easiest answer is, as Nate suggests, to get some Hawk HP+ pads for the days when you do driving schools; I'm sure the MMs would work fine on the autox circuit.
Let me know when you're changing them out, as I'd like to swing by and observe/assist.
Let me know when you're changing them out, as I'd like to swing by and observe/assist.
G
I went ahead and ordered myself some of the Hawk HPS pads ($60 a set at TireRack). They should be here by the weekend.
Email me with when you're free the next two weekends and we'll pick a day.
For now, I'm only doing rear pads, so the difference in feel should be limited. But when the fronts go (which I assume won't be that far off), I'll slap the HPS pads on the front too and be able to fully comment on them.
The Hawks won out on ease of order. Someone at bimmerforums mentioned that TireRack had the best price on Hawks and that they were cheaper than the Porterfields. So, considering how easy it is to order through TireRack and the fact that they are a reputable merchant made it a very easy route.
I figure they won't suck at all. It's just a question of will they be worth the premium over the Jurids (OEM). I think the Jurids can be had for ~$35 a set.
Email me with when you're free the next two weekends and we'll pick a day.
For now, I'm only doing rear pads, so the difference in feel should be limited. But when the fronts go (which I assume won't be that far off), I'll slap the HPS pads on the front too and be able to fully comment on them.
The Hawks won out on ease of order. Someone at bimmerforums mentioned that TireRack had the best price on Hawks and that they were cheaper than the Porterfields. So, considering how easy it is to order through TireRack and the fact that they are a reputable merchant made it a very easy route.
I figure they won't suck at all. It's just a question of will they be worth the premium over the Jurids (OEM). I think the Jurids can be had for ~$35 a set.
JST said:
Have you thought of the Pagig HP pads? I have them on my 525 and they are great. Better stopping, less dust, and no squeal.
I know people who hav both the Hawk and Porterfield. I think they are about a tossup.
The Hawk may have a popularity edge.
IMHO,
Haus
I know people who hav both the Hawk and Porterfield. I think they are about a tossup.
The Hawk may have a popularity edge.
IMHO,
Haus
I have R4S's on M3 brake calipers and rotors, and they stop awesome. They rarely squeel, but they do dust a lot. After a weeks driving, my front rims look like they're gun metal.
My two cents.
For street and autocross Repco/PBR/Axxiss Deluxe pads are great. Metal Masters are also good. I have used the Deluxe pads on various performance cars since the 70s. Low dust, low noise, and very good stopping performance. No fade at all in street and autocross applications.
The Deluxe pads are definately not track pads. I too have read the posts on bimmerforums about track use of the Metal Masters. But both Carbotech and Turner seems to think they are fine.
For track and street pads, the Porterfields seem to have a good number of supporters.
I am leaning towards dedicated track pads for track use, and the Repco/PBR/Axxiss pads for street use.
The problem with the E46 M3 is the lack of pads available. Some people find that E36 M3 rear pads will work, but at the expense of some swept area. The fronts are the same between the E36 M3 and E46 M3. The only rear pads I have seen listed are the Porterfield's and the Turner Cool Willy track pads. Also Pagid standard and Mintex. Of course non-E46 M3 owners do not have this problem.
For street and autocross Repco/PBR/Axxiss Deluxe pads are great. Metal Masters are also good. I have used the Deluxe pads on various performance cars since the 70s. Low dust, low noise, and very good stopping performance. No fade at all in street and autocross applications.
The Deluxe pads are definately not track pads. I too have read the posts on bimmerforums about track use of the Metal Masters. But both Carbotech and Turner seems to think they are fine.
For track and street pads, the Porterfields seem to have a good number of supporters.
I am leaning towards dedicated track pads for track use, and the Repco/PBR/Axxiss pads for street use.
The problem with the E46 M3 is the lack of pads available. Some people find that E36 M3 rear pads will work, but at the expense of some swept area. The fronts are the same between the E36 M3 and E46 M3. The only rear pads I have seen listed are the Porterfield's and the Turner Cool Willy track pads. Also Pagid standard and Mintex. Of course non-E46 M3 owners do not have this problem.
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