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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi folks! First time poster and new to these forums. Hopefully not breaking any rules, and if this is the wrong place to post please let me know.

For the past ~10 years, I've been driving an Infiniti G37/Q60 via leasing. I've been pretty happy with the cars, especially with the performance upgrades they've received over time, but have always heard about how incredible BMW's are to drive. My lease ends in less than 2 months and Infiniti is hounding me about signing a new lease.

Today, I went to a BMW dealership here and test drove a new M340i. Fully recognizing the difference in the MSRP between these cars (~48k on the Infiniti, ~55k on the M340i), it honestly felt like a totally different stratosphere of car. I fell in love with it. I have never driven a car that FELT like that. The engine sound on downshifts, the precision on the steering, how connected to the car I felt when I was driving it. Plus, the extra ~70 HP and ft/lbs of torque didn't hurt.

Also, it feels like Infiniti is really trying to give me the squeeze. They quoted me another Q60 in their inventory that MSRP's for 8k more than my current lease was brand new, but it has LESS options and LESS performance than my current Q60 (??). So, higher payment on a lease for a worse car. I'm out.

Here are the scenarios I'm debating and where I'm leaning. I have never owned my own car outright as I've leased my cars basically since I was 20. Here are the facts of my current situation, so please challenge me anywhere and give me advice if it makes sense.
  • Historically, I've gotten a new car every ~3 years because that's when I've wanted to upgrade. Leasing has made sense to me in this arrangement. However, I think I could see myself driving this M340i for the next 5+ years given how many boxes it ticks for me now and in the future. I'm a low mileage driver (see below). Is leasing the M340i or buying the M340i generally smarter?
  • I don't THINK I want to lease an M340i if I get one - my wife and I are considering having a kid in the next 3-5 years and I think having back seats will make life simpler.
  • There's a model close to me that's a dealership loaner car with 2,700 miles with an asking price of $51k. With their offer of 0.9% financing, the monthly payment lines up to pretty close to my budget, which has my (oh so important) wife's holy blessing.
  • Fortunately, my Infiniti is under mileage on the lease (2017 Q60) pretty significantly - about 6,000 miles out of the 36,000 miles I signed up for. Unfortunately, I lived in Dallas during the 2019 October tornadoes and it suffered some superficial paint damage (light scuffs and scratches, some paint damage on on the front bumper). I'm going to get these fixed and get the car detailed/serviced, but expect total cost to (hopefully) be under ~2k.
  • BMW told me there's a program to "appraise my lease and get me out of it." Is this a good deal??
  • I've also been doing research on what else is out there. I have some listings of 2017-2018 M3's with ~20k miles, no accidents, with a sticker price of ~51-55k. Is this something I could use as leverage? Or is it even just a generally BETTER decision than the 2020 M340i?
  • Also considered an S4, new Tesla Model 3 performance, used Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio, and a top-end Genesis G70. The M340i and the Giulia feel like the only two that'd make me be excited to get in the car every day, so I'm trying to not show to the dealer that my options are shortlisted.
  • I'm a first time purchaser instead of lessee, if a used car doesn't have the options I want, can they be installed by the dealer (namely HUD)?

Other facts that are probably important:
  • I live 12 miles from work and am generally pretty introverted, so mileage should be low
  • I am concerned about maintenance on a used BMW - my family had a couple growing up and only heard how horrible the maintenance costs were. Is this true?
  • The M3 and M4 are the two apex dream cars for what I feel I could reasonably afford in my life, so the realistic idea of ownership of one is very tempting
  • I have excellent credit (800+)
  • My approx. budget is about ~800-850 monthly.
  • Am willing to put up to about ~5k down, but if it's smarter do differently am open to suggestions
  • I generally plan to leave the car stock - I'm not a huge tuner or DIY mechanic.

I wrote a novel, sorry. If anyone made it all the way through, I would LOVE any advice you have. THANK YOU!! :)
 

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You can lease a M4 CS for less than $800/month with $0 down. Just throwing this out there. Leasing vs buying is a personal decision but buying a new BMW usually makes more financial sense when you***8217;re keeping it at least 6 years. Otherwise you will come out ahead or even with leasing.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
You can lease a M4 CS for less than $800/month with $0 down. Just throwing this out there. Leasing vs buying is a personal decision but buying a new BMW usually makes more financial sense when you're keeping it at least 6 years. Otherwise you will come out ahead or even with leasing.
That's definitely true. I could afford an $800/month lease on a car, but I struggle with spending that much and not getting ANY equity out of it at all. The current payment on my Infiniti lease is ~$470 a month.

Also, I've struggled to see a decent lease on an M2 for less than $1k (let alone an M3/M4) and I'm pretty new at this since Infiniti's had me under their thumb for quite a while. I've also read some of the M's and M-series BMW's have pretty terrible leasing terms. Anything you'd suggest?
 

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Go Hawks!!!
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For as much time as you spent typing that all up and indicating how you have been leasing for years please tell us you know how to lease by completely understanding all parameters (esp negotiable ones) and can actually calculate your own lease payment...:eeps::thumbup:

To me if you are sub 10K miles/yr and take great care of your cars just buy it because it will hold value and still be in warranty after 3 years...if driving 15K+ a year or more lease it because high wear and near out of warranty at lease end...these simple guidelines have always worked for me...also local taxation rules are big...leases will give you no tax advantage on next car...whereas most states give credit on trades with cars you own...a lot of course depends on MF and how well residual is subsidized too...

PS, being under mileage on leases is rarely a good thing...because you have paid for a lot of miles you didn't use.
 

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Hi folks! First time poster and new to these forums.
Welcome. You can get lots of guidance from very experienced folks on this Forum. And you'll receive a fair share of abuse, which is, in this location, how some show their love and respect.

You passed the first "should I get this car" test in that you love the car, and you drove it so you know what you're looking at.

If you think you will still love the car half a decade down the road, then purchasing under desireable terms makes sense. If you don't drive a lot of miles, purchasing makes even more sense.

If your local BMW dealer has a way through hidden conquest money to help make your current ride go away painlessly, as long as you have it in writing that you're signing liability for the car, and any lease-end costs over to the dealer, that's a nice way to go.

As to what sort of deal.... well, the car has some miles so you want to understand when the warranty clock started ticking and how much warranty and free service is left.

Then you want to calculate invoice, make sure you know all available incentives, and make sure whatever price the dealer is offering is BEFORE consumer incentives are subtracted from the dealer's offered price.

Many people here prefer to do their own calculations and have "yes" numbers clearly in their heads prior to doing price and terms negotiations with a BMW dealer.

You might be pleasantly surprised at how well you can do on a deal you're ready to sign. But keep an eye on all the moving parts because, with a few notable exceptions, car dealers are car dealers regardless of the brand they sell.

If you want specific analysis of a proposed deal, post the MSRP, Invoice, residual (if you're considering a lease), money cost and lease/loan length, rebates/incentives, any other drive off costs and where they are in the deal.

You'll get help here, if you post specifics.

Best of luck.
 

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BTW $800 x 60 months = $48,000.

If you like $800 for a monthly payment, and you don't get talked into making a large cash down payment, then sharpen your pencil.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
For as much time as you spent typing that all up and indicating how you have been leasing for years please tell us you know how to lease by completely understanding all parameters (esp negotiable ones) and can actually calculate your own lease payment...:eeps::thumbup:

To me if you are sub 10K miles/yr and take great care of your cars just buy it because it will hold value and still be in warranty after 3 years...if driving 15K+ a year or more lease it because high wear and near out of warranty at lease end...these simple guidelines have always worked for me...also local taxation rules are big...leases will give you no tax advantage on next car...whereas most states give credit on trades with cars you own...a lot of course depends on MF and how well residual is subsidized too...

PS, being under mileage on leases is rarely a good thing...because you have paid for a lot of miles you didn't use.
I definitely do not understand all of them but I’m not pretending to. I’m coming here in hopes of learning to not be ignorant of the process. I saw some threads here about components of a lease and what to negotiate on, so I plan on reading and learning. Appreciate you posting.

And thanks for suggesting specifics on the incentives and whatnot. I will post those in a couple of minutes.
 

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I***8217;m wondering how the OP has been leasing the past 10 years, which basically means 3 separate leases, and still doesn***8217;t understand all the moving parts of a lease deal. Also the M2 will be terrible to lease because the residual is terrible. You can get a much better lease deal on a M340i or M4.
 

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Go Hawks!!!
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I'm wondering how the OP has been leasing the past 10 years, which basically means 3 separate leases, and still doesn't understand all the moving parts of a lease deal. Also the M2 will be terrible to lease because the residual is terrible. You can get a much better lease deal on a M340i or M4.
And now you know why the Infiniti dealer was hounding him for another lease...:yikes:

The thing is a quick google search will yield tremendous information on leasing...Edmunds forums for MF and residuals by car model...leasehackr for calculator...etc...it isn't rocket science but people like to throw their money away I guess without studying.
 

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Thoughts in no particular order:
  • Yes, a dealer can install options in a used car. But the cost is almost always obscene. Scratch that idea.
  • As others have stated (kindly or otherwise) just because you are a leasing veteran does not mean you understand leasing. My suspicion is your Infiniti dealer has been raping you.
  • $800 to $850 is well-equipped 5 Series coin. Way to much to spend on a 3 Series;
  • You don't indicate where you live. But you can order from a dealer pretty much anywhere, and take delivery at the Performance Center. You won't believe what that M340 is REALLY capable of until a Professional Driver takes you out on the track. (No, not in your brand new car, but in one which us almost identical).
  • If you drive few miles, why not a 10,000 mile per year lease? On some models, BMW even offers 7,500 miles per year.
  • Do yourself a huge favor and reach out to Bimmerfest founder Jon Shafer, or sponsor Greg Poland. Each is justly renowned for no-nonsense deals on new cars, regardless of whether you lease or purchase.
  • Don't get an M4 CS. Yes, the leases are crazy good. But things like the lack of a center armrest will drive you and/or your wife crazy. An M340 is a TERRIFIC first BMW, particularly with car seats in your future.
  • Join the BMW Car Club of America. (PM me for my member number; is you use me as a referral, you and I will both be entered in a drawing for a 1-day M School).
  • If you can't work with Jon or Greg, visit Leasehackr.com and find a reputable lease broker in your area. The savings will be well worth it.
 

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Go Hawks!!!
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Thoughts in no particular order:
  • Yes, a dealer can install options in a used car. But the cost is almost always obscene. Scratch that idea.
  • As others have stated (kindly or otherwise) just because you are a leasing veteran does not mean you understand leasing. My suspicion is your Infiniti dealer has been raping you.
  • $800 to $850 is well-equipped 5 Series coin. Way to much to spend on a 3 Series;
  • You don't indicate where you live. But you can order from a dealer pretty much anywhere, and take delivery at the Performance Center. You won't believe what that M340 is REALLY capable of until a Professional Driver takes you out on the track. (No, not in your brand new car, but in one which us almost identical).
  • If you drive few miles, why not a 10,000 mile per year lease? On some models, BMW even offers 7,500 miles per year.
  • Do yourself a huge favor and reach out to Bimmerfest founder Jon Shafer, or sponsor Greg Poland. Each is justly renowned for no-nonsense deals on new cars, regardless of whether you lease or purchase.
  • Don't get an M4 CS. Yes, the leases are crazy good. But things like the lack of a center armrest will drive you and/or your wife crazy. An M340 is a TERRIFIC first BMW, particularly with car seats in your future.
  • Join the BMW Car Club of America. (PM me for my member number; is you use me as a referral, you and I will both be entered in a drawing for a 1-day M School).
  • If you can't work with Jon or Greg, visit Leasehackr.com and find a reputable lease broker in your area. The savings will be well worth it.
Hmmmm, the meds must be working...:angel:
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
I'm wondering how the OP has been leasing the past 10 years, which basically means 3 separate leases, and still doesn't understand all the moving parts of a lease deal. Also the M2 will be terrible to lease because the residual is terrible. You can get a much better lease deal on a M340i or M4.
This is pretty much accurate! I recognize I probably could have saved a lot of money over the last 10 years or so, but the money's gone at this point. At the time, Infiniti would keep me at approx my current payment with no more money down, take the car back, give the new car, and be done with it. I never did (and should have done) more research.

Live and learn I suppose!

Thoughts in no particular order:
  • Yes, a dealer can install options in a used car. But the cost is almost always obscene. Scratch that idea.
  • As others have stated (kindly or otherwise) just because you are a leasing veteran does not mean you understand leasing. My suspicion is your Infiniti dealer has been raping you.
  • $800 to $850 is well-equipped 5 Series coin. Way to much to spend on a 3 Series;
  • You don't indicate where you live. But you can order from a dealer pretty much anywhere, and take delivery at the Performance Center. You won't believe what that M340 is REALLY capable of until a Professional Driver takes you out on the track. (No, not in your brand new car, but in one which us almost identical).
  • If you drive few miles, why not a 10,000 mile per year lease? On some models, BMW even offers 7,500 miles per year.
  • Do yourself a huge favor and reach out to Bimmerfest founder Jon Shafer, or sponsor Greg Poland. Each is justly renowned for no-nonsense deals on new cars, regardless of whether you lease or purchase.
  • Don't get an M4 CS. Yes, the leases are crazy good. But things like the lack of a center armrest will drive you and/or your wife crazy. An M340 is a TERRIFIC first BMW, particularly with car seats in your future.
  • Join the BMW Car Club of America. (PM me for my member number; is you use me as a referral, you and I will both be entered in a drawing for a 1-day M School).
  • If you can't work with Jon or Greg, visit Leasehackr.com and find a reputable lease broker in your area. The savings will be well worth it.
Thanks for the responses! I'll look into the BMW Car Club of America. I definitely do not consider myself a "leasing veteran", I've just had multiple leases. Definitely at the times I signed them did not understand them fully. Hence me trying to learn now.

To some of your questions/points:

  • I live in Austin, TX
  • I've been driving 12k mile leases this whole time, but always was under 30k. I wanted that extra buffer so I wouldn't have to pay more miles at turn in. I never considered the fact I was truly wasting dollars by not using all the mileage, which is obviously true.
  • I do think I'd be happy in the RIGHT car for 5+ years, and I'd really like to have some equity for when I'm ready for the next car. Not having a car payment for a year or two also sounds nice. As such, I'm still leaning towards a straight up purchase versus doing another lease, but not against a lease if monetarily makes more sense.
  • I don't have any interest in an M4 CS - I want a fun every day driver, not a track car. M340i and M3/M4 feel like the sweet spot for me, but M3/M4 is prob out of my reach for financing, only leasing.
  • I'll reach out to Jon or Greg and see if they'd be interested in any advice.

Details on current incentives for purchase/lease coming next.
 

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Go Hawks!!!
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M340i (2020MY)
15k miles / 56% residual
12k miles / 58% residual
10k miles / 59% residual

$1000 lease credit
$2500 finance credit
$2000 loyalty credit

0.00099 MF

0.9% APR up to 60 months
 

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Let's start where you are now -- life is a learning process. Rip off the rear view mirror and look forward.

It's been a slow day at the office so I did a bit of thinking on this situation.

Assume you want to purchase this beast.

Assuming MSRP of $55K.

Assuming dealer's offer of $51K is BEFORE incentives.

Assuming the dealer can make your current lease go away with nothing out of pocket from you for the Infiniti, now or down the line.

Assuming your credit is good.

Let's see what $50K, OUT THE DOOR, looks like. Which is a bit of a distance from $51K plus tax and tags and Infiniti lease return.

2 grand down, 60 month loan of $48,000 of around $850/month or a bit less maybe.

In 5 years you own the car and if it's well-loved and low mileage then, it might be worth $15K ~ $20K, let's say $15K.

So, you shell out $53,000 plus any maintenance along the way, say another 2 grand, making it $55,000 minus $15,000 resale value in 5 years, for a net of $40,000 over 5 years, or $667/month.

I'd be interested to know what $667/month might get you in a brand new, built just as you want it, New Car Smell, Fresh Off the Boat, LEASED BMW or other interesting car. Always under warranty, scheduled maintenance covered, never bored.

Keep the spouse, change cars frequently. Cheaper and simpler.
 

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M340i (2020MY)
15k miles / 56% residual
12k miles / 58% residual
10k miles / 59% residual

$1000 lease credit
$2500 finance credit
$2000 loyalty credit

0.00099 MF
There ya go! At the right cap cost and 59% residual, with incentives, this could work way better than a purchase.
 

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Go Hawks!!!
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Let's start where you are now -- life is a learning process. Rip off the rear view mirror and look forward.

It's been a slow day at the office so I did a bit of thinking on this situation.

Assume you want to purchase this beast.

Assuming MSRP of $55K.

Assuming dealer's offer of $51K is BEFORE incentives.

Assuming the dealer can make your current lease go away with nothing out of pocket from you for the Infiniti, now or down the line.

Assuming your credit is good.

Let's see what $50K, OUT THE DOOR, looks like. Which is a bit of a distance from $51K plus tax and tags and Infiniti lease return.

2 grand down, 60 month loan of $48,000 of around $850/month or a bit less maybe.

In 5 years you own the car and if it's well-loved and low mileage then, it might be worth $15K ~ $20K, let's say $15K.

So, you shell out $53,000 plus any maintenance along the way, say another 2 grand, making it $55,000 minus $15,000 resale value in 5 years, for a net of $40,000 over 5 years, or $667/month.

I'd be interested to know what $667/month might get you in a brand new, built just as you want it, New Car Smell, Fresh Off the Boat, LEASED BMW or other interesting car. Always under warranty, scheduled maintenance covered, never bored.

Keep the spouse, change cars frequently. Cheaper and simpler.
Quick calc on 60K MSRP M340 with cap of 52K for 36/10 lease with nothing down but first and fees is 575 a month before tax. 626 with 9% monthly taxes.

He wont get loyalty so I adjusted cap to 54.5K for 646 and 704 payments. (This assumes ~invoice price for cap minus 1000 lease incentive)
 

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Napkin calculation says $550/month+tax for a 10k mile/year lease, with lease fee and minimum drive offs paid up front. A tad more if the lease fee is added to the cap cost.

My target would be $550 ~ $575 a month, including tax, paying lease fee, tags, first month's payment up front.

I'd look at MSDs (multiple security deposits) to see if it made sense to lower the MF further and get the payment down another ~$25/month.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
There ya go! At the right cap cost and 59% residual, with incentives, this could work way better than a purchase.
OK, these three posts have swung me pretty heavily towards the leasing camp.

Let me go read some more and do some learning on the components of leasing and I'll try to return with more knowledge for discussion (if there's any point to any).

Thank you guys!
 

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You are welcome. I missed the Texas part of the equation. Different tax situation there, different options than the rest of the known world. YMMV.
 
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