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Many years ago I was sitting in a faculty meeting listening to my learned colleagues debating about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, or some such nonsense. As they held forth, my inner voice spoke to me. Having had a photograph of a V12 convertible Jaguar XJS on my desk for a couple of years, next to a list of goals that, once achieved, would allow me to acquire that Jag, and knowing that I had checked off the last item on that list, and having seen an ad for a fine example of that Jag at a Lexus dealer, I excused myself from the meeting, called my wife, and told her my inner voice had said to blow off the meeting and go buy that Jag. She agreed.

I called the Lexus dealer, confirmed the car was still available, drove straight up the freeway to the dealer, drove the Jag, and made an offer, which was rejected. A few days later I called the dealer to see if the car was still available, which it was. I asked to speak to the sales manager. I told him I'd seen and driven the car and was ready to write the check at my numbers. He asked if I could do the deal that day, at the numbers I proposed. I said I could be there to sign docs in a hour. Thirty years later, that lovely Jag is sitting in my garage, seeping oil and smelling as new. My inner voice was right. The car is mine. The memories of driving down the Coast Highway, top down, wife smiling beside me, are with me forever.
 

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Many years ago I was sitting in a faculty meeting listening to my learned colleagues debating about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, or some such nonsense. As they held forth, my inner voice spoke to me. Having had a photograph of a V12 convertible Jaguar XJS on my desk for a couple of years, next to a list of goals that, once achieved, would allow me to acquire that Jag, and knowing that I had checked off the last item on that list, and having seen an ad for a fine example of that Jag at a Lexus dealer, I excused myself from the meeting, called my wife, and told her my inner voice had said to blow off the meeting and go buy that Jag. She agreed.

I called the Lexus dealer, confirmed the car was still available, drove straight up the freeway to the dealer, drove the Jag, and made an offer, which was rejected. A few days later I called the dealer to see if the car was still available, which it was. I asked to speak to the sales manager. I told him I'd seen and driven the car and was ready to write the check at my numbers. He asked if I could do the deal that day, at the numbers I proposed. I said I could be there to sign docs in a hour. Thirty years later, that lovely Jag is sitting in my garage, seeping oil and smelling as new. My inner voice was right. The car is mine. The memories of driving down the Coast Highway, top down, wife smiling beside me, are with me forever.
Life is memories...and this is a pretty dang cool one!!!:thumbup:
 

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Discussion Starter #143
Many years ago I was sitting in a faculty meeting listening to my learned colleagues debating about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, or some such nonsense. As they held forth, my inner voice spoke to me. Having had a photograph of a V12 convertible Jaguar XJS on my desk for a couple of years, next to a list of goals that, once achieved, would allow me to acquire that Jag, and knowing that I had checked off the last item on that list, and having seen an ad for a fine example of that Jag at a Lexus dealer, I excused myself from the meeting, called my wife, and told her my inner voice had said to blow off the meeting and go buy that Jag. She agreed.

I called the Lexus dealer, confirmed the car was still available, drove straight up the freeway to the dealer, drove the Jag, and made an offer, which was rejected. A few days later I called the dealer to see if the car was still available, which it was. I asked to speak to the sales manager. I told him I'd seen and driven the car and was ready to write the check at my numbers. He asked if I could do the deal that day, at the numbers I proposed. I said I could be there to sign docs in a hour. Thirty years later, that lovely Jag is sitting in my garage, seeping oil and smelling as new. My inner voice was right. The car is mine. The memories of driving down the Coast Highway, top down, wife smiling beside me, are with me forever.
This just makes me want to buy that M4. :p
 

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This just makes me want to buy that M4. :p
Interestingly, as a related aside, in many car deals I've done, I have found that my clarity regarding what I want gets subtly transmitted to the car dealers, and this has, I believe but can't prove, improved the transactions in my favor.

My wife says it's my ability to beam my thoughts into other people's minds. :yikes:

I rather think that my clarity sends unambiguous messages to the other parties in the transaction -- they know that I am ready to say yes, and they know what I will say yes to, and, somehow, they correctly understand that in order to get me to yes, they gotta do what I need done.

Some dealers have tested this and I have walked. In a couple of deals I have been told by the dealer, very clearly, that they were at the limits of what was possible -- take it or leave it. Some I have taken, some I have left.

But it's always been driven by knowing what I want.

You gotta figure out what you want, when you want it, and on what terms, and then go try to get it.
 

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Interestingly, as a related aside, in many car deals I've done, I have found that my clarity regarding what I want gets subtly transmitted to the car dealers, and this has, I believe but can't prove, improved the transactions in my favor.

My wife says it's my ability to beam my thoughts into other people's minds. :yikes:

I rather think that my clarity sends unambiguous messages to the other parties in the transaction -- they know that I am ready to say yes, and they know what I will say yes to, and, somehow, they correctly understand that in order to get me to yes, they gotta do what I need done.

Some dealers have tested this and I have walked. In a couple of deals I have been told by the dealer, very clearly, that they were at the limits of what was possible -- take it or leave it. Some I have taken, some I have left.

But it's always been driven by knowing what I want.

You gotta figure out what you want, when you want it, and on what terms, and then go try to get it.
Problem is I know what I want for next car...but can't get it!!!...no 2020+ C2S Cabs with stick anywhere out there...have to order and no dealer nearby has real production allocations now...ugh!
 

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Problem is I know what I want for next car...but can't get it!!!...no 2020+ C2S Cabs with stick anywhere out there...have to order and no dealer nearby has real production allocations now...ugh!
It will come to you. Use your magical powers of clarity to beam the necessary thoughts into the mind of the dealer who will get this done for you.

I absolutely had to have Melting Silver over Coral Red Metallic on my 2020 MINI. HAD...TO...HAVE...IT.

Called MINIUSA, as a loyal returning customer. The person I spoke with tried her best but the answer that came back through her was a hard "no." That combo is not available in the USA. Period.

When I reached out to my MINI dealer to discuss ordering my next MINI, I gave him the history of my quest. He chuckled and said I could have saved myself some trouble if I had just called him first. Took him one phone call to get the hard no turned into yes. Cost me $500 over invoice, minus incentive, plus that friggin' $30 doc transfer fee.

Flawless delivery on a car that gets admiring comments wherever I go. Most important to me, I got what I wanted. Typical First World needy customer.... with clarity.

Clarity. My Best Friend.
 

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It will come to you. Use your magical powers of clarity to beam the necessary thoughts into the mind of the dealer who will get this done for you.

I absolutely had to have Melting Silver over Coral Red Metallic on my 2020 MINI. HAD...TO...HAVE...IT.

Called MINIUSA, as a loyal returning customer. The person I spoke with tried her best but the answer that came back through her was a hard "no." That combo is not available in the USA. Period.

When I reached out to my MINI dealer to discuss ordering my next MINI, I gave him the history of my quest. He chuckled and said I could have saved myself some trouble if I had just called him first. Took him one phone call to get the hard no turned into yes. Cost me $500 over invoice, minus incentive, plus that friggin' $30 doc transfer fee.

Flawless delivery on a car that gets admiring comments wherever I go. Most important to me, I got what I wanted. Typical First World needy customer.... with clarity.

Clarity. My Best Friend.
Haha, my clarity is waiting until prod slots are readily available for even larger discounts and build date in early 2021 for spring delivery...:bigpimp:
 

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Haha, my clarity is waiting until prod slots are readily available for even larger discounts and build date in early 2021 for spring delivery...:bigpimp:
:thumbup:

Porsches are insane. And totally worth it, if you can figure out safe places to drive those driver's license shredding machines.
 

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Wow, I'm just catching up on yesterday's and today's posts. I went from being excited that Remistus was finally gonna go get that car, to being let down two posts later.

Anyway, I'm glad SOMEBODY remembered the Infiniti still had to be dealt with, since I brought it up back in post #71. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #150 (Edited)
Wow, I'm just catching up on yesterday's and today's posts. I went from being excited that Remistus was finally gonna go get that car, to being let down two posts later.

Anyway, I'm glad SOMEBODY remembered the Infiniti still had to be dealt with, since I brought it up back in post #71. ;)
My wife has reiterated that if I find the perfect car to just pull the trigger now. We're comfortable dealing with the Infiniti separately if we have to.

Found a couple of interesting options. Will be posting updates in the next day or two depending on how things turn out. We're getting close to end of month and dealers are starting to reach back out to me.

edit to clarify - I'm not going to pull the trigger on what isn't a good deal, we're still playing the waiting game, but I think we're OK with not waiting until end of August especially if we can get a dealer to make it worth it to get the car earlier. My last payment on the Infiniti is only about 2 weeks out.
 

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My wife has reiterated that if I find the perfect car to just pull the trigger now.
That's step one in the sequence -- find the perfect car.

Then, it's having the conversation with the right person at the dealership.

"I am absolutely ready to sign today if we can get the numbers right. Here are my numbers."

Sometimes, if they can figure out any way to make your numbers work, they'll do it. Sometimes they'll give you their best offer which may be as close to your dream numbers as possible, but still higher than you would prefer, at which point your choice is simple. Agree or walk.

But you gotta be talking with the right person -- the person who knows all the numbers and what can be done.

They're calling you now. Only reason to talk with them is if you've landed on THE car and you are ready to do the final round of negotiation with the decision maker.

I once had a deal where the salesperson said that we could get no further unless I was sitting across from the manager at the manager's desk. No more phone tag. I told the salesperson I'd be delighted to have that face-to-face conversation with the manager if the numbers I had proposed were what we were discussing. The salesperson said he believed it was possible to get at or close to what I wanted, but only if I were at the store so the manager could see the whites of my eyes.

It worked. Exactly what I wanted, plus a bit more, thanks to my wife insisting that they upgrade the wheels and tires, which they did. Nobody ever says no to her.
 

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Discussion Starter #152 (Edited)
That's step one in the sequence -- find the perfect car.

Then, it's having the conversation with the right person at the dealership.

"I am absolutely ready to sign today if we can get the numbers right. Here are my numbers."

Sometimes, if they can figure out any way to make your numbers work, they'll do it. Sometimes they'll give you their best offer which may be as close to your dream numbers as possible, but still higher than you would prefer, at which point your choice is simple. Agree or walk.

But you gotta be talking with the right person -- the person who knows all the numbers and what can be done.

They're calling you now. Only reason to talk with them is if you've landed on THE car and you are ready to do the final round of negotiation with the decision maker.

I once had a deal where the salesperson said that we could get no further unless I was sitting across from the manager at the manager's desk. No more phone tag. I told the salesperson I'd be delighted to have that face-to-face conversation with the manager if the numbers I had proposed were what we were discussing. The salesperson said he believed it was possible to get at or close to what I wanted, but only if I were at the store so the manager could see the whites of my eyes.

It worked. Exactly what I wanted, plus a bit more, thanks to my wife insisting that they upgrade the wheels and tires, which they did. Nobody ever says no to her.
The "update in the next couple of days" is because I think I did find the perfect car. :) Portimao Blue, black interior with blue contrast stitch, aluminum mesh-effect trim (I don't personally like the wood trims), 19" jet black wheels, premium + driver assistance packages, ambient lighting, remote start, park distance control. MSRP $60,245. It's also built but not yet delivered to the US (they expect it in ~2 weeks), so the car won't be at my house until right about when my lease is up.

I've also done exactly what you outlined here. I showed them the EXACT deal that, if they can get me there, I would sign today + stellar CSI scores.

TOTAL FINANCED COST (see below) - $49,475.40
APR - 1.9% (per BMW USA incentives with excellent credit)
Term - 66 months
Total Monthly Payment - $790

OR

APR - 0.9% (per BMW USA incentives with excellent credit)
Term - 60 months
Total Monthly Payment - $844

DETAILED FIGURES BELOW

MSRP, Discounts, Incentives

Starting MSRP - $60,245
Incentives - $3,500
APR Credit (per BMW USA) - $2,500
Conquest Credit (per BMW USA) - $1,000
https://www.bmwusa.com/special-offers/finance.2020-M340i-Sedan.austinbmwdealers.html?zip=78744
Dealer Discount - $4,819.60
ADJUSTED COST - $51,925.40

Tax and Down Payment

Total Down Payment - $6,801.82
Tax (Paid at Registration) - $3,245.34
Down Payment - $4,150
NET ADJUSTED COST - $47,775.40
Shipping to Austin - $950
Misc Fees - ~$750
TOTAL FINANCED COST - $49,475.40

These figures check out and work, and get me to the payments I wanted. I calculated the dealer discount out to 6.5% + $3,500 in incentives. I also told them some other dealerships are aggressively pursuing my business and I'm going to sign on the car in the next week or so from SOMEWHERE, just not sure where yet. :)

Fingers crossed.

Edit: I realized I fudged my calculations in how I handled tax. Corrected figures now listed!
 

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Discussion Starter #154 (Edited)
For those ofus who are not Texans,what is a $1,000 BMW acquisition fee?
It's only for leases, apparently - BMW charges a $925 acquisition fee on leases but not on financing. I took it out of the calculations after.

I messed up in how I calculated taxes in originally. They came back immediately with the deal I "wanted" (oops). I clarified and corrected my figures, asking for 1.5% more on dealer discount (bringing it to 8% total) with a bit more down and also throwing in the window tint for free. Puts the total financed under 50k and my payment at $790 for 66 months at 1.9 or $844 for 60 months at 0.9. Both deals I'd be really happy with, especially given the car is perfect for what I'm after and my budget. If they come back with a yes, I'll be signing!
 

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Very good.

So the fine points are how the incentives are loaded.

If the incentives never "show up" on the deal paperwork, and thus all the paperwork shows is a net discounted selling price of the car, and sales tax is calculated on that net discounted selling price,there can be savings. Some places do it, others won't. I'd ask.

So,VERY CAREFULLY AND SLOWLY, start with MSRP, deduct the incentives, then deduct the dealer discount to get you to a net taxable selling price. Add the sales tax and registration fees based on that amount. Then add shipping from the dealer to you as a net cost.

If the dealer said yes, make sure they agreed to yes to a 6.5% DEALER discount from MSRP, then deduct the incentives from that. Then add shipping and whatever else.

When you get this all nailed, send a confirming email to the manager you're dealing with so the deal is memorialized in writing.

And triple-check your numbers, then check them again.
 

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Discussion Starter #156
Very good.

So the fine points are how the incentives are loaded.

If the incentives never "show up" on the deal paperwork, and thus all the paperwork shows is a net discounted selling price of the car, and sales tax is calculated on that net discounted selling price,there can be savings. Some places do it, others won't. I'd ask.

So,VERY CAREFULLY AND SLOWLY, start with MSRP, deduct the incentives, then deduct the dealer discount to get you to a net taxable selling price. Add the sales tax and registration fees based on that amount. Then add shipping from the dealer to you as a net cost.

If the dealer said yes, make sure they agreed to yes to a 6.5% DEALER discount from MSRP, then deduct the incentives from that. Then add shipping and whatever else.

When you get this all nailed, send a confirming email to the manager you're dealing with so the deal is memorialized in writing.

And triple-check your numbers, then check them again.
Working on it now. They came back with a deal I'm happy with, but I'm asking for them to send me a fully detailed breakout of how the incentives/rebates are applied before I'm willing to sign. Provided all of that is kosher, I'll do all of the things you've suggested and get it in writing from the sales manager. Puts me right under $800 a month at 66 and just at $850 at 60.
 

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Discussion Starter #157 (Edited)
Very good.

So the fine points are how the incentives are loaded.

If the incentives never "show up" on the deal paperwork, and thus all the paperwork shows is a net discounted selling price of the car, and sales tax is calculated on that net discounted selling price,there can be savings. Some places do it, others won't. I'd ask.

So,VERY CAREFULLY AND SLOWLY, start with MSRP, deduct the incentives, then deduct the dealer discount to get you to a net taxable selling price. Add the sales tax and registration fees based on that amount. Then add shipping from the dealer to you as a net cost.

If the dealer said yes, make sure they agreed to yes to a 6.5% DEALER discount from MSRP, then deduct the incentives from that. Then add shipping and whatever else.

When you get this all nailed, send a confirming email to the manager you're dealing with so the deal is memorialized in writing.

And triple-check your numbers, then check them again.
Keeping myself honest here -

$60,245 MSRP
Dealer discount + rebates - $8,320
Rebates - $3,500
Price after discounts and rebates - $51,925 before fees, accessories, shipping

Total Dealer Discount - $4,820
Dealer Discount off MSRP - 8%

8% feels a lot better than the dealer discount the Dallas dealership was trying to get me to sign on as well.

I checked with the dealer and they won't represent it as a discounted price.

I'm running through my numbers one more time just to make sure this all is good.

EDIT: Just confirmed all the numbers look correct between my numbers and their numbers ($49,981.75 financed after down payment, including shipping and fees, excluding taxes). I've asked to get a confirmation of the deal in writing from the sales manager before I sign anything. If that comes back, I'm pulling the trigger!
 

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Discussion Starter #158 (Edited)
As an aside, I was kind of blown away by this experience today. I wish I had approached other dealers like I did this one - specific numbers spelled out for what I was looking for before I'd sign (which, yes, is what you guys told me to do from the beginning :rofl:), rather than just talking about MSRP and payment. I was fighting tooth and nail to get my monthly payments at 60 month to ~870 with every other dealer, and these guys after minimal back and forth got me to 850 with almost no issue. On a car with similar MSRP.

That makes me feel like I could probably have squeezed a little more money out of it, but this hits the numbers I said up front RE: financing that I'd be pretty happy with. Overall, pretty pleased if this is where we end up.

You've given me a tremendous education on this process, and I'm sure the next time I'll be better at it from the onset. Thanks all of you for sticking with me while I was learning how all of this works and finally ending up here!
 

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14% off of MSRP, including incentives, not to mention dealer discount that takes you back of invoice before incentives, is impressive work.

So, as has been mentioned elsewhere, chutes and ladders. BEWARE! Weird fees, dealer packs, rate bumps, paperwork "mistakes," pressure to buy added service contracts or wheel and tire insurance or paint sealer....

Eyes on da prize. You're almost there, but meat ain't meat 'til it's in the pan.
 

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As an aside, I was kind of blown away by this experience today. I wish I had approached other dealers like I did this one - specific numbers spelled out for what I was looking for before I'd sign, rather than just talking about MSRP and payment. I was fighting tooth and nail to get my monthly payments at 60 month to ~870 with every other dealer, and these guys after minimal back and forth got me to 850 with almost no issue. On a car with similar MSRP.

That makes me feel like I could probably have squeezed a little more money out of it, but this hits the numbers I said up front RE: financing that I'd be pretty happy with. Overall, pretty pleased if this is where we end up.

You've given me a tremendous education on this process, and I'm sure the next time I'll be better at it from the onset. Thanks all of you for sticking with me while I was learning how all of this works and finally ending up here!
Clarity. It's magic.
 
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