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A sudden sense of liberty
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Lutz kicks ass.

The Holden Monaro coupe is going to be imported into the US as a Pontiac GTO starting in the 2004 model year. Drivetrain will be RWD, with a 5.7L V8 and a six speed manual (!). No word on prices yet.

My first GM? Perhaps.

Automotive News article


Here's the Monaro website. Colors, interiors should be the same for the GTO, according to GM. The engine makes 300 hp in Aussie trim, and the car weighs about 3600 lbs.

Holden Monaro
 
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JST said:
Lutz kicks ass.

The Holden Monaro coupe is going to be imported into the US as a Pontiac GTO starting in the 2004 model year. Drivetrain will be RWD, with a 5.7L V8 and a six speed manual (!). No word on prices yet.

My first GM? Perhaps.

Automotive News article


Here's the Monaro website. Colors, interiors should be the same for the GTO, according to GM. The engine makes 300 hp in Aussie trim, and the car weighs about 3600 lbs.

Holden Monaro
This definitely goes on my watch list along with the Mazda RX8.

$30K for THAT! They'll sell every one they import and quickly.

Reading about the Solstice and the decisions behind it in the current C&D makes me think I should have bought stock in GM back when Lutz came on board last fall. And looking at the stock's performance since then, obviously others thought so and bought.
 

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King of Rear Clunks
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I'd like to know what Holden quality is like. Who knows, it could be just as reliable as a real Pontiac. :rolleyes:
 

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A sudden sense of liberty
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Kaz said:
I'd like to know what Holden quality is like. Who knows, it could be just as reliable as a real Pontiac. :rolleyes:
What's the worst that could happen? DMEs that shut down e-throttles, leaving you stranded? Faulty thermostats? Band end-stage resistors? Cooling fans that short and cause the cars to burn?

;)
 

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Kaz said:
I'd like to know what Holden quality is like. Who knows, it could be just as reliable as a real Pontiac. :rolleyes:
I'd expect traditional GM quality/reliability. That car IS a high performance Cattera... Heck, even the C5 (which I love and have had two), is still a Chevy at the end of the day = same fit & finish of that of a Cavalier...

Anyway, it's worth a shot @ 30K...
 

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Re: Re: Holden Commodore coupe to be next GTO

TD said:


This definitely goes on my watch list along with the Mazda RX8.

$30K for THAT! They'll sell every one they import and quickly.

Reading about the Solstice and the decisions behind it in the current C&D makes me think I should have bought stock in GM back when Lutz came on board last fall. And looking at the stock's performance since then, obviously others thought so and bought.
Hmmm... Looks like 4 doors/rear seat is not THAT important after all...
 

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I'm a Mac
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Let me see if I've got this straight--you're all getting jizzed up over some stupid GM throw-back to the 70's era of Detroit muscle cars, but yet none of you want to give the new G35 the time of day?

I wonder what the weight distribution of this new POS from Australia will be...?
 

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hts said:
Let me see if I've got this straight--you're all getting jizzed up over some stupid GM throw-back to the 70's era of Detroit muscle cars, but yet none of you want to give the new G35 the time of day?

I wonder what the weight distribution of this new POS from Australia will be...?
I bet you that POS from Australia is MUCH more exciting to drive than that POS from Japan... Heck, the engine alone makes it more exciting. I've had 2 C5's with that small block V8, so I KNOW what I'm talking about.

Speaking of C5's and V8's... The C5's weight distribution is far from 50/50, yet, it outhandles even my M3. Compared to a G35, it's not even funny, no matter what Infinity's spin for 52/48 (or 58/42 - who cares) is.
 

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I'm a Mac
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Not to mention the inherent benefits of owning a GM product and getting treated with the level of refinement that only Chevrolet (even as a C5 owner, you still get treated like crapola) can deliver. And let's not overlook the fact that customer service is important, since the car will be in the shop every other week (unlike a certain 280hp, 6-speed, RWD, upstart loaded, with LSD, for around $35k we all know about).

BTW, I've never owned an Infiniti, but friends who have friggen' RAVE about Infiniti's customer service (puts BMW's to shame).
 
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ALEX325i said:


I'd expect traditional GM quality/reliability. That car IS a high performance Cattera... Heck, even the C5 (which I love and have had two), is still a Chevy at the end of the day = same fit & finish of that of a Cavalier...

Anyway, it's worth a shot @ 30K...
Before you rip too many holes in GM quality, go out in your driveway and look at your E46. Sure GM (currently) offers nothing of any appeal to most of us in terms of styling, performance, or "image" (ugh!). But quality is average. Not stellar but average. The same can be said of BMW quality.

If anyone read the Car and Driver comparison test a few months back between a different Holden model (can't remember the name) and the BMW M5 (E39) in which the Holden truly held it's own, you have to assume that the Australian GM special vehicle group CAN design a driver's car.

A watered down Nissan Skyline with ultra-generic styling (and a DBW throttle they even tout in their print ads - double-ugh!) just doesn't do much (anything?) for me. Simply put- If you already own a 3-series, why bother?
 

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TD said:


Before you rip too many holes in GM quality, go out in your driveway and look at your E46. Sure GM (currently) offers nothing of any appeal to most of us in terms of styling, performance, or "image" (ugh!). But quality is average. Not stellar but average. The same can be said of BMW quality.

If anyone read the Car and Driver comparison test a few months back between a different Holden model (can't remember the name) and the BMW M5 (E39) in which the Holden truly held it's own, you have to assume that the Australian GM special vehicle group CAN design a driver's car.

A watered down Nissan Skyline with ultra-generic styling (and a DBW throttle they even tout in their print ads - double-ugh!) just doesn't do much (anything?) for me. Simply put- If you already own a 3-series, why bother?
I remember that comparo very well. The Holden car in question was the same one, but sedan instead of coupe. While C&D did praise its driving dynamics (compared to the current GM lineup in the US - save C5 - anything coming from GM subsidiaries deserves nothing but praise), they made it clear it's no M5 (but @ 30K, that's something easy to forget). Especially in the quality dept...

Also, I don't see how your first paragraph relates to the second... Anyway, in regards to your first paragraph, I'll simply ignore the fact that you put BMW & GM in the same league... I owned 2 C5's. While I love the car for its driving dynamics, it doesn't even come close to BMW's in the fit & finish dept. Problems (not that I've ever had any with my BMW's), sooner or later, all cars will have. And I won't even start to compare the kind of attention you get from a BMW dealer/service dept. to that you get from a Chevy dealer... :tsk:

In regards to your second paragraph, I think I addressed it in my first one, but I don't doubt GM's ability to make a driver's car. I've never questioned that, and the proof is: I've had 2 C5's and would still love to have one. But I'm not THAT crazy to put THAT much money on cars...

I agree with your third paragraph. In general, Japanese cars do nothing for me, especially Infinity's.
 
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ALEX325i said:

Also, I don't see how your first paragraph relates to the second...
I was addressing two different issues. (When you start a new paragraph, you're allowed to change your subject somewhat. Segregating topics/sub-topics is a purpose of paragraphs. ;) )

The first paragraph was a slightly exaggerated defense of GM quality. Yeah, I do know it's still lagging, but being fair, it's not lagging by as much as it used to. And BMW is getting worse. Are they even TODAY? Probably not.

The rest was a comment as to why THIS new product offering holds promise (to me) while the Infiniti in question does not.
 

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TD said:


I was addressing two different issues. (When you start a new paragraph, you're allowed to change your subject somewhat. Segregating topics/sub-topics is a purpose of paragraphs. ;) )

The first paragraph was a slightly exaggerated defense of GM quality. Yeah, I do know it's still lagging, but being fair, it's not lagging by as much as it used to. And BMW is getting worse. Are they even TODAY? Probably not.

The rest was a comment as to why THIS new product offering holds promise (to me) while the Infiniti in question does not.
My bad. I thought quality was the only issue at hand.

I agree on the whole G35 thing. You may have seen my reply to HTS's post. I don't even know why he brought it up... IMO, the G35 is just another frustrated attempt to deliver 3er driving dynamics in a different package. Sure, it's got 280HP, but if power is all one's looking for in a car, go get the "real thing" with a more powerful engine (i.e. E46 M3).
 
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ALEX325i said:

My bad. I thought quality was the only issue at hand.

I agree on the whole G35 thing. You may have seen my reply to HTS's post. I don't even know why he brought it up... IMO, the G35 is just another frustrated attempt to deliver 3er driving dynamics in a different package. Sure, it's got 280HP, but if power is all one's looking for in a car, go get the "real thing" with a more powerful engine (i.e. E46 M3).
Well, you forget that PRICE is a factor for MOST people, or most of us would be driving something other than what we are driving (although, honestly, of the vehicles that fit my needs, there's none I'd rather drive than my E36 M3 - okay, so I haven't yet driven an E39 M5 - that's a distinct maybe, price no object).

The Infiniti G35 and Lexus IS300 are attempting to be bargain BMWs. Offer a similar package (making sure to include RWD and a manual tranny) and offer it for a few thousand dollars less. Make sure to highlight the individual stats that beat the BMW on paper. Use unfair comparisons if necessary (like comparing your car with SP or equivalent vs a non-SP BMW). It's the Japanese playbook although Cadillac has tried to use it too.

As always, you have to ask, what's the catch?

Back to the Holden...

While a bit exaggerated, the comparisons of Lutz to Reitzle are fair as both are strong-willing, opinionated car guys who have actual vision. Reitzle is fairly credited with building the current, highly-sucessful BMW lines (excepting the E65 which happened entirely after he left). And Lutz has already shown the necessary cajones to possibly make a difference at GM.

If you've got world-class products within the GM family, why not market them to your advantage in your largest market? Makes sense to me.
 

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A sudden sense of liberty
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
hts said:
Let me see if I've got this straight--you're all getting jizzed up over some stupid GM throw-back to the 70's era of Detroit muscle cars, but yet none of you want to give the new G35 the time of day?

I wonder what the weight distribution of this new POS from Australia will be...?
The simplest answer is probably this: I'm from Detroit. I grew up driving Mustangs. Bavarian driving machines aside, there's nothing like an SBF or SBC when it comes to motivating power. The American pony cars have become so archaic, though, that they're impossible to live with, even for a V8 freak like me (and the Corvette's two seats limit its appeal).

A European chassis (OK, it's an Opel, but still), modern suspension architecture, modern interior, a non-boy racer design, room for four, 6 speeds, *and* a Small Block Chevy? For 30K?

Where do I sign, and do you think I should put a deposit down now?
 

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TD said:

If you've got world-class products within the GM family, why not market them to your advantage in your largest market? Makes sense to me.
I agree. I don't know if I gave the wrong impression when I quoted Kaz's post, but I'm actually glad that GM is bringing that car to the US. It shows that somebody finally realized that something was terribly wrong with their current offerings, which IMO are uninspiring at best (except the C5, of course)...

Anyway, while that Holden certainly is no M, I'm pretty sure it's a lot of car for 30K...
 
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ALEX325i said:


I agree. I don't know if I gave the wrong impression when I quoted Kaz's post, but I'm actually glad that GM is bringing that car to the US. It shows that somebody finally realized that something was terribly wrong with their current offerings, which IMO are uninspiring at best (except the C5, of course)...

Anyway, while that Holden certainly is no M, I'm pretty sure it's a lot of car for 30K...
My god, we agree on something!!!!
 

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King of Rear Clunks
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ALEX325i said:


I agree. I don't know if I gave the wrong impression when I quoted Kaz's post, but I'm actually glad that GM is bringing that car to the US. It shows that somebody finally realized that something was terribly wrong with their current offerings, which IMO are uninspiring at best (except the C5, of course)...

Anyway, while that Holden certainly is no M, I'm pretty sure it's a lot of car for 30K...
I don't disagree that bringing Holdens (especially the HSV varieties) to the US is a good, and long-neglected idea. I chalked it up to plain GM stupidity when I first learned that GM made a Catera with a Z28 drivetrain and didn't sell it here. I was just trying to say that I wouldn't expect some magical all-around piece of work, since Holden quality is unknown in the US.

FWIW, my family owns 1 Japan-made, 1 Australia-made and 2 US made Mitsubishis (now 1 since I sold my Galant), and the Aussie car squarely falls in between the others in terms of quality/reliability.
 
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