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Kaz said:


I don't disagree that bringing Holdens (especially the HSV varieties) to the US is a good, and long-neglected idea. I chalked it up to plain GM stupidity when I first learned that GM made a Catera with a Z28 drivetrain and didn't sell it here. I was just trying to say that I wouldn't expect some magical all-around piece of work, since Holden quality is unknown in the US.

FWIW, my family owns 1 Japan-made, 1 Australia-made and 2 US made Mitsubishis (now 1 since I sold my Galant), and the Aussie car squarely falls in between the others in terms of quality/reliability.
Oh, and I wasn't disagreeing with you either. That's why I said that even the C5's I had were still Chevy's at the end of the day, and since that Holden is a high performance Catera...

Anyway, @ 30K, I'm pretty sure that whatever it delivers is going to be more than one would expect... :thumb:
 

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A sudden sense of liberty
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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Here's what I wrote about the HSV GTS and the Commodore coupe on rec.autos.makers.ford.mustang almost exactly three years ago (isn't Google cool?). I am happy to eat this crow.



I'm a died in the wool Ford guy, but I vow right now that if GM imports the HSV GTS, I will sleep outside my local Chevrolet dealer for three weeks to be first on the waiting list. I actually like the way it looks, and the Catera is just un-GM enough that 300+ hp and a 6 speed manual would vault it right to the top of my Christmas list, ahead of the M3 that's been there for the past three years.

I am so serious about this that it makes me want to puke. ARE YOU LISTENING, GM?

I'm a little less excited about the Commodore coupe, only because I've always preferred 4 doors to 2 (and see absolutely no reason to ruin a perfectly good sedan by making it into a coupe). However, the coupe is very nicely styled, blending a lot of classic coupe elements together to produce a very clean result. Putting the LS1 in that car would finally be giving the engine the chassis it has always deserved, and a thoroughly modern, IRS chassis with those looks and the LS1 engine might finally put the Camaro back in the sales hunt with the Mustang. Put simply, GM's management would have to be utterly incompetent, bumbling,
slathering, mouth-breathing idiots to forgo the chance to sell that car here.

Oh, wait a minute...

Damn, I guess we'll never see it. I guess we'll just have to happy with the Monte Carlo, or some other variation of the FWD/3800 theme, which all also make me want to puke, but not in the good way described above.
 
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JST said:
Here's what I wrote about the HSV GTS and the Commodore coupe on rec.autos.makers.ford.mustang almost exactly three years ago (isn't Google cool?). I am happy to eat this crow.

I'm a died in the wool Ford guy, but I vow right now that if GM imports the HSV GTS, I will sleep outside my local Chevrolet dealer for three weeks to be first on the waiting list. I actually like the way it looks, and the Catera is just un-GM enough that 300+ hp and a 6 speed manual would vault it right to the top of my Christmas list, ahead of the M3 that's been there for the past three years.

I am so serious about this that it makes me want to puke. ARE YOU LISTENING, GM?

I'm a little less excited about the Commodore coupe, only because I've always preferred 4 doors to 2 (and see absolutely no reason to ruin a perfectly good sedan by making it into a coupe). However, the coupe is very nicely styled, blending a lot of classic coupe elements together to produce a very clean result. Putting the LS1 in that car would finally be giving the engine the chassis it has always deserved, and a thoroughly modern, IRS chassis with those looks and the LS1 engine might finally put the Camaro back in the sales hunt with the Mustang. Put simply, GM's management would have to be utterly incompetent, bumbling,
slathering, mouth-breathing idiots to forgo the chance to sell that car here.

Oh, wait a minute...

Damn, I guess we'll never see it. I guess we'll just have to happy with the Monte Carlo, or some other variation of the FWD/3800 theme, which all also make me want to puke, but not in the good way described above.
ROTFLMMFAO!

So I guess you'll be making a trip to REI this weekend to pick up a tent and supplies?
 

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JST said:
I cannot understand the fuss. It is rather plain and lacks an adequate statement. People who buy these cars are successful in their lives and careers and they want to indulge in this type of car. This car does not appear to be an indulgence but rather a mere plebian conveyance.

It is beneath Chris and I.

In contrast, I offer you THIS-



I believe it speaks for itself.
 

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nate328Ci said:

Bringing Holdens to the US as Pontiacs is a GREAT idea. :thumb:
Yes. Bless you. Weight is good. Simplicity is for Neanderthals.

Chris will be so happy when I tell him that you love our designs.
 

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I like cookies.
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A. van Hooydonk said:


Yes. Bless you. Weight is good. Simplicity is for Neanderthals.

Chris will be so happy when I tell him that you love our designs.
Best member evar! :lmao:

Can you show us some of your new projects?

Wieght is good, eh? So the Z5 won't tip the scales at around 2000lbs? The next 5 won't be lighter :yikes: :yikes:

Any insight is appreciated Adrian :thumb:
 

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I'm a Mac
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From today's (3-28-02) USAT:

GM already has high-performance coupes - Chevrolet Camaro and Pontiac Firebird - but those sell poorly and are being discontinued. Lutz said there are "no short- or medium-term plans to bring either of those cars back."

Australian cars have fared poorly in U.S. quality surveys, and automakers have mostly abandoned the idea of selling Aussie buggies in the USA. An exception is the U.S. version of the Mitsubishi Diamante, which is built in Australia. In the latest J.D. Power and Associates initial quality study, the Diamante had 179 problems per 100 vehicles, worse than the industry average of 147 per 100.

think you had problems with bad auxiliary fans? you ain't seen nuthin' yet...

maybe your local pontiac dealer will be happy to throw another shrimp on the barbie for you while you're dropping off your silly holden for the umteenth time...oh, and i'll bet the re-sale on those little "Aussie buggies" is pretty swell too.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/mear.htm
 

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A sudden sense of liberty
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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
hts said:
From today's (3-28-02) USAT:

GM already has high-performance coupes - Chevrolet Camaro and Pontiac Firebird - but those sell poorly and are being discontinued. Lutz said there are "no short- or medium-term plans to bring either of those cars back."

Australian cars have fared poorly in U.S. quality surveys, and automakers have mostly abandoned the idea of selling Aussie buggies in the USA. An exception is the U.S. version of the Mitsubishi Diamante, which is built in Australia. In the latest J.D. Power and Associates initial quality study, the Diamante had 179 problems per 100 vehicles, worse than the industry average of 147 per 100.

think you had problems with bad auxiliary fans? you ain't seen nuthin' yet...

maybe your local pontiac dealer will be happy to throw another shrimp on the barbie for you while you're dropping off your silly holden for the umteenth time...oh, and i'll bet the re-sale on those little "Aussie buggies" is pretty swell too.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/mear.htm
That's the kind of hard-hitting insight I've come to expect from USA Today. "Mostly abandoned" the idea of selling Australian cars? When did carmakers ever really give this serious consideration? The only recent example of an American automaker selling an Australian built car in the US that I can think of was the Mercury Capri convertible. That car was decidedly not a success, but it had a lot more to do with the underlying product than with anything about it being from Australia.

The Australian automotive market in many ways resembles the American one. Big, RWD cars with big engines are very popular, and have evolved in ways that US RWD cars (which were caught in sort of an evolutionary dead-end by CAFE and downsizing) never did. Now, the American market has substituted trucks for cars, but that doesn't mean that one of the modern Australian RWD V8 vehicles wouldn't do very well up here. I imagine that it's *exactly* what a large sector of the American public would want in a car.

I can't wait.
 
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Again, whomever doesn't think Holden presents a credible performance alternative, check out THIS C&D comparo- http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Cara...109_comparisontest_dundee.xml?keywords=Holden

As JST points out earlier, the car in this comparo is the sedan version of the car that will be the Pontiac GTO. So, basically, the comparo at the link is comparing the car we are discussing with the current M5.

And I quote, "Apex to apex, the Holden proved to be more fun in an alpine fracas. The steering felt more communicative than the M5's, the driver more connected to the front wheels. The body stayed planted, and the rear semi-trailing arms remained unflappable, even during lift-throttle horseplay certain to provoke oversteer. Throttle-on oversteer was more accessible and controllable. In short, the Holden felt livelier and more willing for a hard thrash than the M5.

The Verdict
Highs: Friskier in the hills than the M5, the best seats in any GM product anywhere.
Lows: The fact that we can't buy one, a balky shifter, some cheap bits.
The Verdict: We'd rather have this "Cadillac" than the one GM entered at Le Mans. "
 

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I was in Sydney in late June 2000 (unfortunately it was only for a 4 day weekend -- I did a side trip during a business trip to Tokyo)

The rental car I had was a Ford Falcon -- similar in size to a Taurus, but felt lighter and had better controls (styling was different -- sort of ford new-edge, but it had the same basic profile of a Taurus, but leaner, with a wedgier hood).

I was impressed with Holden Commodore looks -- I thought it was the best looking of the Opel-Vauxhaul Omega / Cadilac Catera/ Holden Commodore trio.

Then I started to see the modern-day El Camino / Ranchero derivatives of both the Holden and Ford. It still looked strange to see a pickup bed on a car, but the styling was better than the old US versions.

I did see a couple Chevy pickups and Suburbans (late 90's body style). But, they were right-hand drive. I don't know if those are made down there, converted, or made in the US. I thought it was interesting.

By the way -- Sydney is a fantastic city! Almost like a combination of San Fran, the coastal parts of So Cal, and London!!!
 
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