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BTW, it happened to me on my last deal. In an email exchange with the GSM who put our most recent deal together, I came up $30 below his number for the state license fee. I went to the state DMV web site,twice,and each time the tag fee was exactly $30 less than the GSM was quoting.

In a final email exchange the GSM assured me that the paperwork would correctly reflect the DMV fees and I would not be over charged.

When we went to take delivery a few days later the GSM was at the hospital with a sick mother-in-law situation. So the F&I guy prepared the docs. I quickly glanced through them and confirmed that the bottom line numbers matched what the GSM had emailed me, and, due to a stupid lapse of memory, I failed to realize that, of course the numbers matched, but they were $30 over!!! So I failed to question this, comforted that the numbers in my notes matched the numbers on the docs.

Turns out the DMV I had pulled from the DMV web site was correct, but the dealer's system automatically added a $30 "doc transfer fee" which got us to the number the GSM had quoted.

When I got home I caught the error. My wife said, "They got you the one-off color you wanted and gave you a great deal. His mother-in-law is in the hospital and you're gonna bug him now?? Let them keep their $30." I let it go,to my ongoing shame. Don't care about the $30. But every time something like this goes unchallenged, it weakens the system and makes it harder on the next guy. My bad, my bad, my bad.
 

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BTW, it happened to me on my last deal. In an email exchange with the GSM who put our most recent deal together, I came up $30 below his number for the state license fee. I went to the state DMV web site,twice,and each time the tag fee was exactly $30 less than the GSM was quoting.

In a final email exchange the GSM assured me that the paperwork would correctly reflect the DMV fees and I would not be over charged.

When we went to take delivery a few days later the GSM was at the hospital with a sick mother-in-law situation. So the F&I guy prepared the docs. I quickly glanced through them and confirmed that the bottom line numbers matched what the GSM had emailed me, and, due to a stupid lapse of memory, I failed to realize that, of course the numbers matched, but they were $30 over!!! So I failed to question this, comforted that the numbers in my notes matched the numbers on the docs.

Turns out the DMV I had pulled from the DMV web site was correct, but the dealer's system automatically added a $30 "doc transfer fee" which got us to the number the GSM had quoted.

When I got home I caught the error. My wife said, "They got you the one-off color you wanted and gave you a great deal. His mother-in-law is in the hospital and you're gonna bug him now?? Let them keep their $30." I let it go,to my ongoing shame. Don't care about the $30. But every time something like this goes unchallenged, it weakens the system and makes it harder on the next guy. My bad, my bad, my bad.
Man, there are some real whack jobs on this site...:tsk::p:rofl:
 

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BTW, several sales people and one GM have all told me that the tensest time is when the customer is in F&I. People who sell cars are amazed that F&I people don't blow up more deals with their slick moves. The general consensus is, in addition to fatigue and a desire to get off the lot with the new car, customers don't want to be rude to the "professional" F&I sales person.

I'm never rude, just amazingly curious and slow-witted when I'm in the F&I box. "What you just told me doesn't match what's in my notes. Let's go over this part again.... and again, if necessary." Always looking for those teachable moments, educating F&I tricksters, one car deal at a time.
You are a kind and generous person. The first time they changed terms on me, I walk out the door and don't come back. Life is too short and there are many BMW dealerships (at least in my metro area).

It is a simple matter of trust. If they changed one thing, what else did they change? What might I have missed? Most importantly, why should I have to check for hidden changes?
 

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///Monkeyazz Duck
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Look at us geezers talking about Columbo. While all the Millennials shake their heads and ask "WTF does yogurt have to do with leasing a BMW?"

We deserve the "Okay Boomers" on this thread.....
 

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Look at us geezers talking about Columbo. While all the Millennials shake their heads and ask "WTF does yogurt have to do with leasing a BMW?"

We deserve the "Okay Boomers" on this thread.....
Hey...didn't you hear? Corona virus is caused by Corona beer! And Corona virus is making it harder to sell cars so there is a connection. Of course, one has to be really, really stupid but we seem to have plenty of those around.
 

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Discussion Starter #47 (Edited)
"Hey, at least I didn't go in with an ad and say meet this price! (Just kidding, OP)"

Ouch! Ok, now more advice please.

Here is info on the latest new 2020 230i convertible lease I am currently negotiating: 36, mos, 10,000 miles. Car has under 20 miles and has been on the lot for over 10 months.

MSRP $50,090.
$2000 July incentive
$500 retention
$1436 dealer contribution

$46,154 cap cost

mf is .00099 (2.37%)

53% residual

$1500 drive off but I do not know how that is allocated

$635.41 per month includes 9% tax.

The sales person said it was $1500. below invoice. Money factor and drive off seem ok.

There should be more room on the price for a car that will be discontinued after this year. What do you folks say?
 

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"Hey, at least I didn't go in with an ad and say meet this price! (Just kidding, OP)"

Ouch! Ok, now more advice please.

Here is info on the latest new 2020 230i convertible lease I am currently negotiating: 36, mos, 10,000 miles. Car has under 20 miles and has been on the lot for over 10 months.

MSRP $50,090.
$2000 July incentive
$500 retention
$1436 dealer contribution

$46,154 cap cost

mf is .00099 (2.37%)

53% residual

$1500 drive off but I do not know how that is allocated

$635.41 per month includes 9% tax.

The sales person said it was $1500. below invoice. Money factor and drive off seem ok.

There should be more room on the price for a car that will be discontinued after this year. What do you folks say?
I'm not a math (or lease) expert, but the payment seems high. My car was $45,700 adjusted cap cost and the payment is $548 including tax (I think 7%). My MF was .00065 and I put down multiple security deposits to get it lower. Did you check Edmund's to see what the current MF is? Also, yeah, the dealer is only kicking in $1436 after the incentives....hardly a great discount.
 

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That 53% residual makes for a steep hill to climb.

Assuming you pay the $925 lease fee as part of the drive off, plus tags and first month's payment, say around $2,200 ~ $2,800 out the door, with 35 more monthly payments of around $598, including your 9% tax rate, it would require about 7.5% discount from MSRP from the dealer, and then $2,500 incentives/rebates on top of that to get you to under $600/month with less than 3 grand to start.

If you want the lease fee folded into the monthly payments to lower your initial drive off, then the dealer is going to have to discount the car around $4,750 or about 9.5% from MSRP, before rebates/incentives to keep that monthly under $600.

My target for this car would certainly be under $600/month, and less than that if I paid the lease fee up front as part of the drive off.

So now we get into philosophy. The dealer has made you an offer. If you love the car and are comfortable with the dealer's numbers, and you've calculated them yourself so you know exactly how the dealer got there, and you're numbers match, you're good.

Some of us decide what we're willing to pay and we make the dealer an offer and see what happens. There is something magic about, "at these terms and these numbers, I'm prepared to sign today." And these terms and numbers include agreement on any lease-end turn in charges on what you're driving now -- don't want any lease inspection surprises.

Also, make sure you understand how many miles you're renting and what it will cost if you need more miles at lease end. That's a potential cost,too.

Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #50
Thanks Ibiza. I thought the 53% residual was low too. Another problem is that the numbers are not working with what he told me when I put them in lease hacker and leasematic. The reason is I was quoted $635. including 9%tax Per month with total drive off of $1500. The payment is under $500. + tax so within the parameters but i don’t know why. We talked these numbers over the phone but he has not emailed them to me. I wrote everything down as we talked.

To answer the philosophical question the car has everything I was looking for so I could easily drive it for 3 years. I like that this is the last of the 2 series convertibles. Again thanks for everyone’s comments.
 

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BMWFS sets the residual, not the dealer, so if it's 53%, that's what it is. I would certainly confirm this with the dealer.

With a $50,000 MSRP, you've got to account for 47% depreciation expense, roughly $28,200. So the goal is to get the dealer and the available incentives to shave that down. Each thousand dollars is going to cost about $27.78 per month, plus rent. So, basically, every grand you shave off of depreciation will save you a bit more than $28/month. If you shave $8,200 off through discounts, you've got to pay off $20,000 in depreciation over the life of the lease, or $27.78 x 20 = $556/month JUST IN DEPRECIATION expense, every month. So figure out how much you want to pay in depreciation per month, divide it by 28, and there's a big chunk of your monthly lease payment.

Say you want a payment of $500/month plus rent and tax. 500/28=17.86, so a depreciation cost of about $17,860 gets you close to $500/month plus plus. These approximations give one a sense of what an offer might be. Or if a reasonable payment is possible with minimal drive offs and a realistic discount.

Is it possible to get a $28,200 depreciation figure down to $17,000? It's happened. But do you think the current market calls for a $11,200 discount from MSRP on the car you desire? Maybe.... YMMV.
 

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I'm not a math (or lease) expert, but the payment seems high. My car was $45,700 adjusted cap cost and the payment is $548 including tax (I think 7%). My MF was .00065 and I put down multiple security deposits to get it lower. Did you check Edmund's to see what the current MF is? Also, yeah, the dealer is only kicking in $1436 after the incentives....hardly a great discount.
Unless your car is the same model, it likely has a much different residual than the car the OP is contemplating.

@1968 laid it all out though.
 

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"Hey, at least I didn't go in with an ad and say meet this price! (Just kidding, OP)"

Ouch! Ok, now more advice please.

Here is info on the latest new 2020 230i convertible lease I am currently negotiating: 36, mos, 10,000 miles. Car has under 20 miles and has been on the lot for over 10 months.

MSRP $50,090.
$2000 July incentive
$500 retention
$1436 dealer contribution

$46,154 cap cost

mf is .00099 (2.37%)

53% residual

$1500 drive off but I do not know how that is allocated

$635.41 per month includes 9% tax.

The sales person said it was $1500. below invoice. Money factor and drive off seem ok.

There should be more room on the price for a car that will be discontinued after this year. What do you folks say?
Well from below link your MF and residual look right.

https://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/55023/bmw/2-series/2020-bmw-2-series-lease-deals-and-prices/p6

You just happen to want a car with a crappy residual. Nothing you can do there if you really want to lease this model.

Where you can really attempt to negotiate is on dealer discount. He is giving you about 3%. BMW invoices are usually 7-8% off MSRP. You can calculate invoice on Edmunds or Kelley too. So in your case I'd ask for at least another 5% off. Or more if you want but maybe he won't budge. You will have to find out. Beware of cap add ons. Make sure you can calculate exact payment before signing because I still have gut feeling you really don't understand leasing and finance office may easily bamboozle you.
 

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Il Cacciatore, the rule of thumb is a good lease payment is 1% of MSRP, so the deal you're considering is off by about $150.

Your dealer may be playing games, knowing that you are noob who doesn't understand leasing. And as Greg noted, you may be looking at a model where BMW doesn't offer a good residual. That may be because there is more demand than supply, or it may be that BMW really doesn't want to own your used vert in 3 years. Might be because the top mechanism may need replacing or repairs, the interior doesn't stand up to long periods of top-down direct sunlight, or their prognosticators feel there will be very low demand for used 230 verts when the next model comes out. Advice would include:

  1. Become A LOT more educated on how leasing works, or
  2. Hire a lease broker to get you a good deal, or
  3. Find a different make / model which leases better, or
  4. Make the residual / depreciation someone else's problem by purchasing a CPO
Ask yourself if you absolutely positively need to lease a 2021 230 vert. If not, there may be plenty of other options out there. And if you do, hire a professional, rather than relying on the input of a bunch of strangers on an internet board.
 

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Unless your car is the same model, it likely has a much different residual than the car the OP is contemplating.

@1968 laid it all out though.
Yes, wow, I realize that now! I didn't realize residuals varied that much within the same brand.
 
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