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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I guess BMW's aren't the only ones with rattles (MBZ quality problems)...

I wonder how BMW did on this same survey???...:dunno:

MERCEDES RACKS UP PROBLEMS IN QUALITY SURVEY
By David Kiley, USA TODAY

SUV and C-Class models have raised quality issues for Mercedes. Wind noise and rattles have caused complaints.

DETROIT - A new survey places Mercedes-Benz 31st out of 35 brands for quality, just slightly ahead of South Korea's Hyundai and General Motors' soon-to-die Oldsmobile.

It's the latest quality question for the German luxury brand, driven by concerns about its M-Class sport-utility vehicle and entry-level C-Class car.

In the survey by Strategic Vision, which measures problems reported in the first three months of ownership, 14% of Mercedes owners said they experienced problems, vs. 6% for Infiniti and 7% for Lexus, also luxury brands.

"The gap is widening between Mercedes and its biggest competitors in quality," says Dan Gorrell, author of the study.

"The good news for Mercedes, though, is that it has such deep brand equity that its other qualities offset the gap."

Earlier this month, Mercedes chief Jürgen Hubbert admitted to mounting problems that could cause Mercedes to worsen before it improves. Some suppliers, he said, had changed designs of Mercedes components without running them by Mercedes quality control.

"There is no higher priority at Mercedes than quality," says Klaus Ulkann, vice president of customer service at Mercedes-Benz of North America. He said he couldn't elaborate on Hubbert's comments or specify models affected.

But he admits that a C-Class redesigned for 2000 and the M-Class have had problems, and that a proliferation of new models over the last five years has been challenging.

The M-Class ranked seventh out of nine luxury SUVs surveyed for problems by Strategic Vision. C-Class ranked 21st out of 24 near-luxury cars. The pricier S-Class and E-Class rank among the highest-quality vehicles in their categories.

"The M-Class is the first time we went with a completely new line outside of Germany, and there we had some challenges," says Ulkann. M-Class is built at Mercedes' plant in Vance, Ala., its only U.S. factory. Wind noise, rattles and a higher plastic content than other Mercedes models have drawn the most complaints.

Brian Walters, director of product research with J.D. Power and Associates, says that in his firm's surveys, M-Class and C-Class rate better than competitors for engine performance, braking and transmission but "significantly worse" in interior controls, electronics and heating and cooling systems.

Ulkann says Mercedes has fixed some problems cited in surveys, such as window glass in the M-Class that was binding in the door, and a windshield in the C-Class that fogged in the middle. "We are confident our scores will improve this year," he says.

The quality problems in Strategic Vision's survey are mirrored in the J.D. Power initial quality survey, which measures problems in the first three months, and in its vehicle dependability survey, which measures problems over five years.

In the initial quality survey last year, M-Class had 163 problems per 100 cars, while the Lexus RX 300 had 85 per 100, and the Lexus LX 470 had 102.

In the dependability index, Mercedes has fallen from third to 10th over the last three years.

If not for Mercedes' position as a standard-bearer among automobiles, slipping quality scores wouldn't be so closely scrutinized.

"There is no question that Mercedes gets looked at more closely than Jaguar, Cadillac or even BMW for quality," says marketing consultant Dennis Keene. "The fact that Lexus is so out of control on quality puts enormous heat on Mercedes when they backslide."

"I agree we are on a pedestal, and the expectations are very high," Ulkann says.

What Mercedes has going for it, though, is love of its 100-year-old brand, Gorrell says. In a study he does of total quality experience, which measures how satisfied customers are overall, Mercedes ranked sixth but statistically very close to luxury rivals BMW, Porsche, Lexus, Jaguar and Audi.

"How people feel about your brand, how much they like you, can make up for a lot," says Gorrell.

Mercedes this week starts a new ad campaign designed to remind luxury car buyers that Mercedes is still the car to aspire to. Each of the 11 TV ads ends with the same new line: "Unlike Any Other." The ads play up Mercedes' heritage, plus individual model qualities, such as the "security" of the M-Class, the "value" of the C-Class and the "soul" of the SL coupe.

link to article
 

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but i think the really expensive MB are quite good on quality i.e. sl500, sl500, etc. it's the low end MB that suffer. that what i hear anyway. in terms of entry-level cars what manufacturer has the highest quality, in your opinion. even better if you have a source to back up the opinion. my sense is that the BMW 3 series is above average in quality.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Magna said:
but i think the really expensive MB are quite good on quality i.e. sl500, sl500, etc. it's the low end MB that suffer. that what i hear anyway.
i agree that the entry-level models (if you can call the MB M-class, "entry level") are the ones that have the most problems. however, the low-end is where younger car buyers are first introduced to a brand. if the quality is that bad in the low-end car, it may prevent the buyers from buying a higher end model of the same brand down the line. :thumbdwn:

btw, here's a list from jd power that i found with quality rankings (from yr 2000):
JD Power Quality Rankings
they are not categorized by price, so as you stated, the higher end mercedes did quite well, as did most of the japanese cars. however, looking at some european cars that would be considered close to the bmw's 3-series class, here are some rankings. (all are considered above average in quality.):

# 27: bmw 3 series
# 58: audi a4
# 67: mercedes c-class

and the mercedes m-class that was mentioned in the original article came in at #164, pretty bad...
 

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To quite honest, I'm suprised how many people complain about rattles on their BMW. Every car out there is going to have them, especially the ones with a stiffer suspension. As soon as we can develop plastic that doesn't expand and contract with changes in temperature, we can stop worrying about rattles. Until then, we can turn up the radio, or just live with it and decide to enjoy a damn fine car.
 

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ff said:
To quite honest, I'm suprised how many people complain about rattles on their BMW. Every car out there is going to have them, especially the ones with a stiffer suspension. As soon as we can develop plastic that doesn't expand and contract with changes in temperature, we can stop worrying about rattles. Until then, we can turn up the radio, or just live with it and decide to enjoy a damn fine car.
hey ff..did you ever say what the smilies is...beaming up? lol
 

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The S55 AMG has a stiffer suspension than my Bimmer. It also hasn't got one single rattle.

Nick
 

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The link that was posted earlier in the thread was to the 2000 JD Power survey. Take a look at the 2001 version:

http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=3671

BMW did much better- the 3 series was ranked higher than even the HOnda Accord, or Toyota Camry and Corolla. The 5 and 7 did even better.

However, the X5 did horribly-- and it got a fully black circle (very bad) in Consumer reports. It rates worse than the M class. The Z3 also didn't do very well.

Like every German automaker, Mercedes has trouble with new model lauches. The C class is new and therefore has more problems. I guarantee that you the quality rankings for the new 7 series will be terrible for the first 2 years. As will other BMW models as they get replaced by newer versions. Mercedes is taking the heat right now-- but it could just as easily be BMW in 2 years. One exception is VW/Audi- who just seem to fluctuate wildy in quality ratings and generally do poorly-- even the Jetta which has been around for a few years now.

All of this being said, Mercedes does seem to be cheapening their materials and build quality. I have a feeling that BMW is heading in the same direction-- the new 7 series has a lot pretty cheesy looking/feeling knobs and other parts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
robg said:
The link that was posted earlier in the thread was to the 2000 JD Power survey. Take a look at the 2001 version:

http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=3671

BMW did much better- the 3 series was ranked higher than even the HOnda Accord, or Toyota Camry and Corolla. The 5 and 7 did even better.

i must say that i am impressed with lexus' reliabilty. they are near the top of these quality surveys year after year...but i still wouldn't give up my 330 for one. :D

btw, check out the honda civic all the way down there at #151. i always thought civics were supposed to be extremely reliable. in fact, my gf's '93 civic has had very few problems. maybe honda is slipping with their newer models?...:confused:
 

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BTW Dave where did you take that pic of your car that shows up in your sig? The composition/colors is/are nice. And the part I like most.... it looks like a nice twisty deserted road to drive on. :D

--SONET
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
robg said:
Jaguar has consisently placed in the top spots for the last 5 years--ever since FOrd took over. They literally went from "worst to first".
interesting that Ford doesn't do better with the cars under their own nameplate. the highest ranking that they got in the jd powers survey is #45. they definitely did a good job improving jaguar's reliability though...
 

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SONET said:
BTW Dave where did you take that pic of your car that shows up in your sig? The composition/colors is/are nice. And the part I like most.... it looks like a nice twisty deserted road to drive on. :D

--SONET
Sorry for replying late. Had to work. :D

The road is the one connecting the Fairfax-Bolinas road with Mount Tam here in Marin county, CA. There are some twisties going up and down, but there is also a semi-straight up on the hill that allows you to go fast. But be careful about deer crossing.

This is an old picture that I took with the Nikon 950. But I have deserted digital and went back to film.

Dave
 
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