Interesting article: German driving lic.

MARCUS545 said:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7067112/

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Definitely written by somebody who believes that driving is a right, not a privilege. His contempt for pointless fripperies such as first aid, knowledge of basic, icon-based road signs, and safety precautions condemns (for me) his articles to "interesting but fundamentally prejudiced foreigner's observation". The bureaucracy is not fun, and that clearly comes through, but even after obtaining a German driver's licence I still don't fancy sharing a road with this guy ("all those signs and stuff that you had to, like, know. What gives?").

If he thinks getting a German driver's licence is tough, he should try Norway. And if the UK driving test was as obstructive and pedantic, at least we'd have a quite a few less ****wits on our roads.

Just some notes about the original article.

First, even if the author came from a state with a reciprocity arrangement he would have had to exchange his license within the first three years, just as he would not have had to start from scratch had he scheduled his exam in the first three years. Since he wasn't aware of the three year limit on his foreign license - after which it becomes invalid and he has no insurance - it might not have helped him if New York had reciprocity with Germany.

You face considerably less hassle if you arrange to get a German license within the first three years. I was lucky and had German colleagues and friends who made sure I knew about and remembered the rule. The only time I spent in a driving school car was during the road test. (That was not the plan.) I was not bored with hours of lecture though I did spend about 40 hours studying the zillion test questions. I also wasn't troubled about an eye test or the first aid course even though I probably had valid certificates for both from Washington state. (I am wearing glasses in my license picture, but no one ever asked!)

Like the U.S. tests, you can miss a certain number of questions on the written test and still pass. You can also make minor mistakes on the driving test, provided you don't repeat them. Some mistakes fail you automatically, for example, any that prompt your instructer at your side to intervene and hit the brakes.

Our procter graded the written exam on the spot as we handed it in, and quite quickly. I remember hearing the magic word "perfekt" and then as I walked back to get my things to leave, the moan of a woman with a Russian license who did not do so well.

I only had my instructor and the examiner in the car for the driving test, perhaps because I took it after the peak pre-summer testing period. I also had a really noisy test, but it was the two catching up on things and discussing the news, with the occasional pause as the examiner gave me his next instruction.

andy_thomas said:

If he thinks getting a German driver's licence is tough, he should try Norway. And if the UK driving test was as obstructive and pedantic, at least we'd have a quite a few less ****wits on our roads.

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As I think I mentioned before, the son of my German driving school instructor spent three years in England and is convinced that the driver's there, largely trained by mom and dad, are better than in Germany.

I am starting to believe the most important element of having people drive well is having people take an interest in good driving. A certain number in Germany are directly interested in that, but I think most drive as well as they do because they know they will be severely punished if they get caught making a serious mistake.

I sometimes wonder if German driving law and enforcement is a relic from when the Prussians ran things.

e36M3r said:

Oops... I don't mean to offend.

Well, not to stir up a hornets nest. X3 may fall under my weight limit, but probably not the x5. I think there should be some dimensional things, primarily height and weight. Once over you are classified as a ...er.. ah... "big" vehicle. When that happens, its right lane driving, no xenon's, less privileges than a car, etc… We must get real on these whoppers, especially like those huge Caddys, Lincolns, Hummers... etc… :soapbox:

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Hehe, you certainly didn't offend me... I don't own an SUV or SAV... yet.

As long as the speed limit is the same for everyone, including 18 wheelers, I would just favor tough license examinations. I come from a country where (at the time) driving was considered one of the utmost priviledges and as such the exams were very difficult and the examiners hellish.

Heck, on top of the theoretical examination and road test, I had to take a "fixed circuit" test as well, which included on-ramp stopping and starting, 3 point turning in confined spaces, parallel parking, rear parking, slalom - all of this with stickshift cars without power steering and against the clock! (Oh and with patches of ice on the ground). I kid you not.

By comparison, the US driving exam required at the most 2 hours of reading the booklet and 2 minutes of driving... It was ridiculously easy. While I don't necessarily favor an exam so absurdly tough as the one I took, I wouldn't mind some higher standards over here (especially after having my car totalled by a clueless 16 year old in a huge Pontiac).

adc
03 330 ZHP

adc said:

By comparison, the US driving exam required at the most 2 hours of reading the booklet and 2 minutes of driving... It was ridiculously easy. While I don't necessarily favor an exam so absurdly tough as the one I took, I wouldn't mind some higher standards over here (especially after having my car totalled by a clueless 16 year old in a huge Pontiac).

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One problem in the U.S. (or is it an opportunity?) is that there is no single US driving exam but 50 different state driving exams with considerable variation in length and quality from state to state. I thought the road test I took in Washington state was quite competent. It was comparable to the German practical exam less a quarter hour and a stretch on the Autobahn. The written test was a joke: I passed it by skimming through the driver's handbook while standing in line. I am not sure that really matters, however, as most of the driving in the U.S. doesn't demand much knowledge or careful judgement. Where that is required, it is generally done for you by a mandatory and very conservative speed limit and/or right of way signs or signals.

I don't think tough driving examinations would make much difference in a system where people expect and want to be told what to do. In a way, that is very relaxing if somewhat slow. It probably also means there may never again be highways in the U.S. without speed limits.

Seriously though, the US driving exams can be ridiculous, bordering on insulting. My test took place in a parking lot. We never even made it onto a real road. We did do a K-turn, but not so much as parallel parking. 10 minutes and we were done, then they printed up my new license.

The other problem is how I was taught to drive. On my 15th birthday, I took the permit test (20 MC questions). My parents handed me the keys and said, "ok you drive home". I've heard this same story from many others. While I was the happiest kid in the world, that couldn't have been the smartest way to learn.

How about this: if you're caught speeding on the freeway (more than 20 mph over the limit) and you're under 18 yrs of age you lose your license for a year. No exceptions. Period. End of story.

If I see one more pair of old Honda Civic coupes racing each other down the San Diego freeways I'm gonna spit!

johnf said:

As I think I mentioned before, the son of my German driving school instructor spent three years in England and is convinced that the driver's there, largely trained by mom and dad, are better than in Germany.

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The attention paid to using your mirrors and consideration to other road users is commendable. But there are fundamental elements still missing - motorway practice, for instance. British motorways are actually being very safe, but lane discipline is non-existent. This lane ignorance bleeds onto dual carriageway roads, which means blockades in the outside lane and built-up tension behind. So, you undertake, and that triggers road rage.

Also, maddeningly, people are never taught how to merge. Zip-merging is an anathaema to the Brits, who learn to love the queue from a very young age; it also leads to fighting and swearing as people who try to use all the road available merge only at the last minute. It seems daft to have to teach people how to do this, but it works a lot better.

But I guess the grass is greener . When I lived in Oz, I started to appreciate how much better the driving was in the UK.

MARCUS545 said:

How about this: if you're caught speeding on the freeway (more than 20 mph over the limit) and you're under 18 yrs of age you lose you license for a year. No exceptions. Period. End of story.
If I see one more pair of old Honda Civic coupes racing each other down the San Diego freeways I'm gonna spit!

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Speeding alone does not a bad driver make... (sounds like something Yoda would say). When conditions permit, I have no problem cruising at 90+ mph on our 65 mph highways. I have no problems with others doing it as well. The big problem is inattentive/irresponsible drivers - cell phone talking, no turn signals, oblivious to anything not in their forward line of sight (you can see these morons by the way their rear and sideview mirrors are positioned), etc.. In DC traffic, I have seen drivers reading a fully unfolded newspaper while travelling 30+ mph! ... and that's just the beginning!

Granted, street racing is a big problem. There are few things more dangerous than a driver with 1 or 2 years of experience who thinks he can drive like Hans Stück. However, I'd like to see our law enforcement and insurance agencies punish those drivers who are inattentive and through their ambiguous actions, foster frustration and uncertainty in those drivers in their immediate area. I'm not holding my breath that this will happen but the increased media and law enforcement focus on driver distraction is a step in the right direction.

mlahti said:

While we are at the subject of young drivers, what the heck is this new driving positions where these people have their seats positioned almost in a horizontal position. Can they actually see something out of the windows!?

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I think they drive that way because it's easier for them to reach into the back seat and pick up their brain before they get out of the car. :rofl: