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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I purchased a 550i for it's twin turbo V8, knowing full well that the 535i I6 was perfectly sufficient for the USA. I could see the writing on the wall, that engines were getting smaller, and cylinder counts less. And now here we are in 2016.

From what I can see, the 550i is the cheapest twin turbo 32 valve V8 that you can buy. I equate cost with technical sophistication, so a car with an exotic V8 should be expensive. But isn't the 550i the cheapest car with such an engine? Anything else from other makers - Ferrari, Bentley, Audi, Porsche, Benz etc. is more expensive. What have I not included?

I was planning on getting a new G30 535i. But perhaps a "cheap" M550i is a better option?
 

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Sure -- if the stipulation is that it must be a turbo V8 or that it must come from a premium manufacturer.

But the V8 in the Mustang GT 350 certainly seems more "exotic". And the V8 in 40k Dodge Charger scat pack offers similar performance fuel economy with a better sound. The Chevy SS also similar performance and better sound from its old school V8 but with slightly worse fuel economy due to its 6 speed trans.

Now granted there's a bunch of reasons why you might not like the cars those engines are attached to. BUt sometimes I wonder what the point is of all the added complication if it doesn't result in better performance, character, reliability, fuel economy or sound.

Also, if the base 550 model in the G30 lineup is badged as an "M550" i'd expect it to list for the same or more as an Audi S6. Even now a 550 + msport is roughly the same price as a base S6.

Or you could also just get a Hellcat. :)
 

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550s won't be available at the g30 launch. May be some time. Get an f10 550- they're heavily discounted at the moment
 

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From what I can see, the 550i is the cheapest twin turbo 32 valve V8 that you can buy.
Agreed.

I equate cost with technical sophistication, so a car with an exotic V8 should be expensive.
I would disagree. Internal combustion engines are obsolete technology. Those with many valves, lots of cylinders and multiple turbos are on the clearance rack for a very good reason. If you look at the top-of-the-line offerings of Ferrari, Bentley, Audi, Porsche, Benz (and yes, BMW)...they are plug-in hybrids, which for now represents the state of the art.

What have I not included?
I'll give you a hint... it starts with 'T' and rhymes with 'Tesla'

And now here we are in 2016.
Exactly. If you really want cutting edge technology, go out and get it. If you really want an ICE, at least get something interesting from the golden age of automobiles--think 993.
 

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But the V8 in the Mustang GT 350 certainly seems more "exotic". And the V8 in 40k Dodge Charger scat pack offers similar performance fuel economy with a better sound. The Chevy SS also similar performance and better sound from its old school V8 but with slightly worse fuel economy due to its 6 speed trans.

Now granted there's a bunch of reasons why you might not like the cars those engines are attached to.
My reason is, old technology and poor manufacturing.
GM didn't learn from the ignition switch problem at all.
https://www.cars.com/articles/recall-alert-2016-cadillac-ct6-1420690905515/
Probably the Ford is the most reliable among these but the reason of their reliability is the good old technology, nothing proprietary under the hood.
 

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I would disagree. Internal combustion engines are obsolete technology. Those with many valves, lots of cylinders and multiple turbos are on the clearance rack for a very good reason. If you look at the top-of-the-line offerings of Ferrari, Bentley, Audi, Porsche, Benz (and yes, BMW)...they are plug-in hybrids, which for now represents the state of the art.
The reason why these are hybrids is that many European cites don't allow high pollutant cars into city centers. But hybrids can go in. Plus they have stringent quotes on total emissions of cars sold.

I'll give you a hint... it starts with 'T' and rhymes with 'Tesla'
Tesla is too young of a car company for me. They act like teenagers, gambling. Adding self driving functions without deep testing, then trying to solve the problems after fatal and moderate accidents. Look at how other car makers approached this question: Audi Mercedes, BMW are testing their self driving equipment for years now. Still they predict the first releases are past 2020. They add these functionalities one by one into existing cars and see how they work.
However with some improvements in battery technology and recycling electric cars may win over the gasoline engines. Inside the city limits first.
 

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The reason why these are hybrids is that many European cites don't allow high pollutant cars into city centers. But hybrids can go in.
The La Ferrari, Porsche 918 and Koenigsegg One:1 weren't designed for cities. They were designed to go as fast as possible, and a hybrid powertrain actually does that quite well.

Tesla is too young of a car company for me. They act like teenagers, gambling.
Some would call that innovating, or market disrupting. I think that's a great thing. The big car companies are more comfortable keeping the status quo--change is scary and seldom profitable in the short term.
 

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The La Ferrari, Porsche 918 and Koenigsegg One:1 weren't designed for cities. They were designed to go as fast as possible, and a hybrid powertrain actually does that quite well.
Don't underestimate the importance of it. These cars are often bought by people who have properties and offices in the city center. No one could sell cars to them that they can't drive in there. Often the power of the electric motor is just symbolic.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
I would disagree. Internal combustion engines are obsolete technology. Those with many valves, lots of cylinders and multiple turbos are on the clearance rack for a very good reason. If you look at the top-of-the-line offerings of Ferrari, Bentley, Audi, Porsche, Benz (and yes, BMW)...they are plug-in hybrids, which for now represents the state of the art.
Which of these is cheaper than a 550i?

I didn't say it was the best, I said it was the cheapest. You can get more high tech engines, but at a higher cost. Other engines with less cylinders may offer better value, but setting the line at something more sophisticated than a TT V8 32V, I don't see it.

The biggest surprise for me is that I never recalled BMW being the cheapest at anything. I'm sure there are a lot of things they are cheapest with, especially limited tech, but a certain type of engine? It's not as though TT V8 32V engines are that unique - Benz, Audi also offer them, as well as more exotic brands. But BMW being cheapest?
 

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Which of these is cheaper than a 550i?

I didn't say it was the best, I said it was the cheapest. You can get more high tech engines, but at a higher cost. Other engines with less cylinders may offer better value, but setting the line at something more sophisticated than a TT V8 32V, I don't see it.

The biggest surprise for me is that I never recalled BMW being the cheapest at anything. I'm sure there are a lot of things they are cheapest with, especially limited tech, but a certain type of engine? It's not as though TT V8 32V engines are that unique - Benz, Audi also offer them, as well as more exotic brands. But BMW being cheapest?
ARe you just talking base prices or equipment adjusted? On an equipment adjusted basis the S6 is almost identical in price.
 

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ARe you just talking base prices or equipment adjusted? On an equipment adjusted basis the S6 is almost identical in price.
Maybe on an MSRP basis. But usually a BMW would be cheaper effective price, and if you lease it's not even close. I just leased a 550 for 627/mo and S6s were gonna be in the 900s+...
 

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Maybe on an MSRP basis. But usually a BMW would be cheaper effective price, and if you lease it's not even close. I just leased a 550 for 627/mo and S6s were gonna be in the 900s+...
Agree on leasing. That will likely change during the first year of the g30 though. The incentives won't be as good as on the outgoing f10
 

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I would disagree. Internal combustion engines are obsolete technology. Those with many valves, lots of cylinders and multiple turbos are on the clearance rack for a very good reason. If you look at the top-of-the-line offerings of Ferrari, Bentley, Audi, Porsche, Benz (and yes, BMW)...they are plug-in hybrids, which for now represents the state of the art.
BMW's top of the line! How're they selling vs. non-hybrid 7's?

Hey, just plug it in.....



.
 

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I'll give you a hint... it starts with 'T' and rhymes with 'Tesla'
Stopped in, Tesla's Corte Madera store, which was just large enough, barely, to display their largest vehicle, gull wing ride, and a base frame with motors so's we can see all wheel drive. Just a sales space in the mall, no service avail.

Impressive! Materials and design look much better in person, and the huge rectangular screen that looks clunky in pics really snugs in -- appears verrrrry useful from the driver's seat.

I'd lease one if I didn't need to travel far....provided it rode well.
 

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BMW's top of the line! How're they selling vs. non-hybrid 7's?

Hey, just plug it in.....
This is the most random comment ever. So of course I have to respond to it.

I have no idea how BMW's top of the line is selling. Non-hybrid 7s? who cares?

328s, however. They sell a lot of those.

What are we talking about again?

 
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