[blackdawg]

did anyone else read this with a tightlipped sort of grimace?

they compared a mazda MP3, zo6 vette, M3, 911TT, evo VII, and ferrari 360?

the M3 finished 7th out of 8 cars in terms of handling. am wondered how M3 owners feel about the critiques of the car and the handling issues brought up by the assembled road testers?

 

[Nick325xiT 5spd]

The M3 is ultimately a little too useful to be a true sports car. If you eliminated all the stuff that makes it a usable daily driver, I'll bet it would kick the asses of all those two seaters. As for sedans like the Evo VII... They may have four doors, but I wouldn't call them usable.

 

[Guest]

Hold on... Didn't Car and Driver do a "Best Handling Car > $30K" comparo a few years back in which the E36 M3 BEAT all contenders including the then-current exotics? As a matter of fact, they did. And the M3 won BY A LARGE MARGIN.

Hmmm.....

 

[KP]

Isn't R&D known for dastardizing BMWs? Or was that Automobile:dunno:?For C&D, they compare everything to every BMW model. 7th place ? Yes, the E36 M3 beat out the F355 and NSK, and some others I can't recall.

 

[Nick325xiT 5spd]

To be fair, TD, there is a LOT more out there for the purist sports car driver right now. If I wanted absolute handling, I'd buy a WRX, put in an STi 6 speed transmission and tweak the turbo. There is NOTHING out there that compares to the combination of handling, practicality and refinement of the M3. That said, there are plenty of cars that can outhandle it these days, at the cost of some of the other wonderful M3 attributes.

 

[Guest]

For the record, it was the September 1997 issue of Car and Driver.

Here's the M3-specific section of THAT article (cut and paste)-

BMW M3.

A flawless handler.

BMW's M3 is one of the least-expensive cars in this group. It's also the tallest and narrowest car and has the most-usable rear seat. Its first-place finish proves that superb handling does not require exotic-car packaging or exotic-car prices.

The M3's cockpit works naturally. The driver's seat offers a commanding view of the road and the hood's corners. Hands fall instinctively to the steering wheel and shifter, as do feet to the pedals. Heel-and-toeing is possible, and a dead pedal is included. An adjustable steering wheel would have been nice, as well as more lateral support, but these issues didn't get in the way of our adoration.

The M3 possesses uncanny roadgoing ability. This is the most-agile car here. The steering eagerly bites into corners and is alive with feel. "Constantly talking to my fingers," wrote Csere. It latches onto a line in corners as if on a mission from God. Webster: "Rolls gracefully into curves at a constant rate and goes right where you point it."

The M3 covers for you. The suspension shrugs off bumps, swells, and off-camber depressions without upsetting the line. Not once did any driver cross it up. Smith: "Overcooked a corner, and the BMW's forgiving nature made it interesting rather than scary." Even at the hairy edge of traction, the M3 is accepting of further driver input, which builds tremendous confidence. Unlike the Acura NSX, the Dodge Viper, or even the Ferrari F355, you feel free to explore the M3's limits without fear that something awful awaits if you miscalculate.

The M3 is like one of those mules that pull tour duty in the Grand Canyon, year after year: It isn't capable of a misstep. This car lets you seek out its limits quicker and more confidently than any of the other cars here. If that doesn't make for a winning handler, we don't know what does.

.... So, what's the best-handling car at any price? ...It's an eight-horn salute to the BMW M3 as "the best-handling car."

 

[hts]

Hmmmmm...let's see....September 1997 to May 2002.

Elapsed time...oh, around 56 months, or 5 1/2 years.

Why are we so surprised that our pride and joy, an E36 M3 that was once the 'king of the hill' in terms of handling at any price, may no longer be so? And besides, I suspect (haven't read the article), that they compared an E46 M3.

Big deal.

 

[Guest]

Hmmmmm...let's see....September 1997 to May 2002.

Elapsed time...oh, around 56 months, or 5 1/2 years.

Why are we so surprised that our pride and joy, an E36 M3 that was once the 'king of the hill' in terms of handling at any price, may no longer be so? And besides, I suspect (haven't read the article), that they compared an E46 M3.

Big deal.

You're so slow it's scary.

Go play on a G35 board.

 

[hts]

You're so slow it's scary.

Go play on a G35 board.

nice comeback (as usual) tom. what a surprise. why don't you try actually responding to the point someone makes rather than dragging it down to the gutter with ther personal attacks, as is your typical want?

hey, btw, have you seen the latest washingtonian magazine?
:thumb:

 

[Guest]

nice comeback (as usual) tom. what a surprise. why don't you try actually responding to the point someone makes rather than dragging it down to the gutter with ther personal attacks, as is your typical want?

hey, btw, have you seen the latest washingtonian magazine? nice write-up on king farm--congrats!

:thumb:

Jeez...

Of course the R&T comparo is comparing the E46 M3 to the others. And the old test is comparing the E36 M3 to the others.

But the thing is, many of the "others" have not changed substantially in that time. And for the E36 M3 to place ahead of the Ferrari F355s and Porsche 911s of it's day and then for the E46 M3 place behind virtually EVERYTHING reflecets more on the E46 M3, IMO, than it does on the competition.

And, yes, my neighborhood rocks. Thanks for telling everyone where I live.

 

[JST]

Hmmmmm...let's see....September 1997 to May 2002.

Elapsed time...oh, around 56 months, or 5 1/2 years.

Why are we so surprised that our pride and joy, an E36 M3 that was once the 'king of the hill' in terms of handling at any price, may no longer be so? And besides, I suspect (haven't read the article), that they compared an E46 M3.

Big deal.

Tom's point was that the E36 M3 was dubbed the Best Handling Car in the World in comparison to then-available competitors in 1997. Apparently, R&T conducted a similar comparo using the 2002 M3 (and the competitors available now in '02) and concluded the M3 was 7th out of 8.

Either the competition has gotten much better, or (as I suspect Tom is suggesting) the M3 has lost some of its magic.

Interesting to speculate about, but it's difficult to compare an R&T and C/D comparo; who knows what the various biases of the reporters are? A repeat of the 97 test by C/D would be more informative.

 

[hts]

Jeez...

Of course the R&T comparo is comparing the E46 M3 to the others. And the old test is comparing the E36 M3 to the others.

But the thing is, many of the "others" have not changed substantially in that time. And for the E36 M3 to place ahead of the Ferrari F355s and Porsche 911s of it's day and then for the E46 M3 place behind virtually EVERYTHING reflecets more ont eh E46 M3, IMO, than it does on the competition.

And, yes, my neighborhood rocks. Thanks for telling everyone where I live.

well at least you're finally on point, so i s'pose i should be thankful for that, even though you're wrong.

the e36 m3 rocked back then. that was then, this is now. as for your blanket statement "many of the 'others' have not changed substantially in that time," i'm afraid i'm going to have to beg to differ. in fact, i'd suggest that many of the cars compared in this current comparo (mp3, z06, evo7) didn't exist in the u.s. market in '97, or (in the vette's case) are drastic improvements over the car(s) that was available then.

it's blind faith in the bmw brand ("it's a bmw, therefore it must be the best") that makes the opinions of some of you bmw fanatics worth much less than it otherwise would be worth if you were a little more objective. that's why i'm so excited about the g35. i'm not a bmw fanatic, i could care less about racing heritage, etc., i simply want a car that puts the biggest smile on my face, all things considered. if that's a 330i, great. wrx sti, fine. g35, so be it.

 

[hts]

Tom's point was that the E36 M3 was dubbed the Best Handling Car in the World in comparison to then-available competitors in 1997. Apparently, R&T conducted a similar comparo using the 2002 M3 (and the competitors available now in '02) and concluded the M3 was 7th out of 8.

Either the competition has gotten much better, or (as I suspect Tom is suggesting) the M3 has lost some of its magic.

Interesting to speculate about, but it's difficult to compare an R&T and C/D comparo; who knows what the various biases of the reporters are? A repeat of the 97 test by C/D would be more informative.

JST,

I understand your point clearly, and if you're correctly summarized Tom's point (God only knows how you could have surmised all that from his comments), then I would have to agree with both of you (competition has gotten better while the M3 may have simultaneously gotten softer).

 

[KP]

So when are you coming here Harrison? I may have found a new enemy:lmao:

 

[hts]

Sorry Kun, but we decided to buy a place in North Raleigh instead.

:-(


Ever heard of Wakefield Plantation?

 

[KP]

Sorry Kun, but we decided to buy a place in North Raleigh instead.

:-(

Ever heard of Wakefield Plantation?

Damn, and I took all those pictures too . What changed your mind? There is nothing left for sale now. I haven't heard of Wakefield Plantation. Where is that near? Cary?

 

[hts]

Yeah, thanks for the pix!

We just decided that we could get 'more for less' up there. Also, it's a nice golf course (PGA/TPC) community. It's up in the NE part of Raleigh, up near Wake Forest.

I'll see if I have the link...

http://www.wakefieldplantation.com/home.htm

We'll have you over for a bbq/beer after we get settled...

 

[Adrian 330Ci'01]

did anyone else read this with a tightlipped sort of grimace?

they compared a mazda MP3, zo6 vette, M3, 911TT, evo VII, and ferrari 360?

the M3 finished 7th out of 8 cars in terms of handling. am wondered how M3 owners feel about the critiques of the car and the handling issues brought up by the assembled road testers?

I looked for the article online and couldn't find it.

How did they define handling? The M3 has a LOT OF POWER which could arguable make it a poor 'handling' car for the typical driver. Good handling could be defined as the best match between power weight and suspension that makes the car FEEL good when tossing it through the turns. Using this definition, something like a Miata (or go-cart) would score very well vs. something with a lot of power. Another metric could be 'band-for-the-buck' where I would argue that a 325i would score better than the M3...

I noticed however that there are some other power beasts in the mix.

Can anyone elaborate on their definition?

 

[blackdawg]

yeah....reviews such as this.....

really put a damper on my enthusiasm for my M3 which won't get here for another 8 months.

right now i'm thinking i'll just keep the order going and find a different car maybe? it's sort of disheartening to read the criticisms as well as take what i know firsthand from short test drives and a track ride in an E46M3.

the steering was a tad light. the body did tend to roll more than i personally liked.

what a bargain at $52k to have a 3 series which has the same issues as a $40k 330.

 

[KP]

Yeah, thanks for the pix!

We just decided that we could get 'more for less' up there. Also, it's a nice golf course (PGA/TPC) community. It's up in the NE part of Raleigh, up near Wake Forest.

I'll see if I have the link...

http://www.wakefieldplantation.com/home.htm

We'll have you over for a bbq/beer after we get settled...

I didn't know the name of this place, but I've seen pictures of it before. My significant other's family was shopping around for a new home, and I saw some pictures. This is near Wade Avenue and Capital Blvd. You're going to have a hell of a time at 5p.m. traffic on I40 :lmao:. I'll show you some good eats around the area when you get here. Yes, you're right, we have inflated prices here, but when we bought our condo, the demand wasn't as high as it is now. Meadowmont is hideously expensive, but they get a Harris Teeter:yikes: . All we get is Weaver:dunno: . So much for the kids eh:lmao: :lmao: ?