BimmerFest BMW Forum banner
1 - 20 of 25 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
4,296 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My 97-528 SAP is kind of loud compares to my 02-530.
It's a fast loud thumping sound.
I think the air passage may have been clogged, but then again this maybe normal for 528.
How's every 528 SAP sound in the morning? Thanks for the feed back.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
4,296 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
It's definitely louder than my 530
The pump and air valve were replaced at the same time about a year ago
The sound exist before replacement of both valve and pump
Reason to replace was CEL
Car has no CEL at themoment.
I think the orifice inside the exhaust manifold is partial clogged.
I think I need to find a way to clean the carbon build up inside the exhaust manifold.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
4,296 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I'm not sure if that is your problem as it should generate a code and the symptoms don't align with that problem. Anyway, here is the BMW TIS for that problem: http://www.bmwtis.net/tsb/bulletins/bulletin_graphic_temp/B110504g.htm
Thanks Fudman, that's a lot of work.

But here is my plan to diagnose.
Disconnect the output hose to the pump and turn it on and see if the noise still there or not. And depends on the outcome of this test, I will have a better idea.

Thank you.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
4,296 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
I think I just had my SAP issue figured out. I was getting codes for low air for secondary pump and it was very loud. I replaced the tube that goes from the pump to the valve, issue persisted. I then replaced the vacuum hose connected to the valve which got baked since it was routed above the exhaust manifold. Whoever designed that should be shot. I also replaced the salmon colored relay in the E-box. It's the 3rd day and the code has not come back.
Good job figuring out your problem there bud!
How about the loud noise? did it go away too?
Please reply. TIA.

PS. The salmon color relay location is it in the box under the micro filter housing?
 

· Registered
Joined
·
4,296 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
The pump is sooooo much quieter now. I have a feeling that between the vacuum leak and the relay ( not opening the valve), the pump was having to work much harder. I used to be able to hear it over the motor and possibly the next neighborhood over.

Yes, it's under the cabin filter housing(driver side) which easily comes off. It's the only salmon color relay and P/N 1263742690 ($14 from dealer).
Thank you BentValve for getting back with me on this info.
Yeh! my SAP is really loud, I'm hoping to find a clogged vacuum line to the air valve, this would explain the fast thumping (whooshing, chu chu train) sound.

If the above doesn't then I will look into the relay. Thanks again.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
4,296 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I don't think your vacuum line would be clogged but it may be cracked, leading to a leak, which could then result in insufficient pressure to fully open the check valve. The backpressure against the pump could be that sound you are hearing. I would check the section of the vacuum line between the thin plastic pipe that runs parallel to the engine and the check valve. That section of hose is prone to fracture due to the exhaust manifold heat. The rear section between the plastic line and the pump is usually fine as it is away from any major heat source.
So true:thumbup:. But wouldn't this will cause a CEL? :dunno: Perhaps the valve is partially open just enough to satisfy EML system!!!

Any how, I can't wait for the wife to come home and start tearing the car apart :eeps:

I will be back with an update regardless. Thanks Fudman.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
4,296 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Update.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=DD53&mospid=47585&btnr=11_1594&hg=11&fg=45

Since this car is a 97 M52, the vacuum control line is ran around the front, and then under the intake manifold. I remember replaced all the hoses about a year and half ago during the CCV R/R.

- All hoses appeared to be in good shape
- Checked item 11 electric valve functions, it toggled when 12V DC is applied.
- Checked item 14 one-way valve for correct position and blow test passed.

I'm back to square one

1/ Air valve partial clogged
2/ Exhaust passage partial clogged
3/ Pump has water

Tomorrow morning when the engine is cold I will disconnect the inlet hose to the air valve and see if the loud noise changes.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
4,296 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Update

- Just dis-connect the big hose goes to the air valve inlet, started the car, no chu chu train nor fast thumping noise, I can feel the powerful air out of this hose. So, the pump itself is fine.

- I also checked the for vacuum during this time from the vacuum line, and yes I felt vacuum.

Now, with the above have been checked and verified.
The remainders are more likely suspect.

- Half clogged air valve
- Partial clogged exhaust passage.

I plan to to take Seaform to this thing. Stay tune.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
4,296 Posts
Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Thanks DHoang,

Good idea on soaking the airvalve :thumbup:. I may try that tonight.

I would replace the air valve in a heart beat if I know for sure it will solve my chu chu train noise problem. The last time I checked for price was 110 buckaroos, that's a lot of money to throw away.

seafoam madness
Don't worry I won't go the brake booster route.
I will probably go via the air valve inlet.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
4,296 Posts
Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Update,

So, I have been hitting my SAP with Seafoam about a 1/4 of the bottle each time early in the morning to ensure the SAP will kicking.
Start the car up, nice cloud of white smoke out of the tail pipe and a whip of stinky diesel aroma, off I went for a ride to burn up the seafoam while bring the cats to temperature.

It has been three times and 3/4 of the Seafoam bottle later and here is my impressions
- The audible chu chu train sound of the SAP has definitely improved.
- The exhaust out of the tail pipe is not as smelly as it used to be. I considered this is a bonus since I didn't expect any thing.

I will probably get another bottle once this one run out.
So what do you think folks?
 

· Registered
Joined
·
4,296 Posts
Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Not sure what exactly the Seafoam is doing to what but if it works, what the heck! FWIW, I had multiple (3 total over 4 years) SAP failures in my previous e39. This one has no issues over 2 years. :dunno:
The Seafoam thing is supposedly remove carbon deposits wherever it touches, there's ton of people out there really believe in them. I'm one of those that is reluctant, but what the heck! is the correct term for me too.

If this ever turned out to be the fix for my chu chu train sound! I will make seafoam as a part of my SAP passage routine maintenance.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
4,296 Posts
Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Final update

This morning the ambient temperature is about 25 degree F.
Started the car. No more chu chu train or fast thumping sound. After all these years it's finally fixed.

The credit goes to E46Fanatics though! Here is picture I got from them.
 

Attachments

· Registered
Joined
·
4,296 Posts
Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Glad to hear !

So what exactly is this Seafoam supposed to be cleaning when it's poured down that large hose?

Looks to me like if I poured Seafoam down this hose on my '98, it'd go down directly to the pump, would it not?

I think the part needing a Seafoam cleansen is the valve itself, isn't it?
DHoang,
Make sure the engine is cold early in the morning to ensure the secondary air pump will kick in.

Just pour about a 1/4 of the seafoam or less then re-attch the hose.
Start the car, let it idle for 15 minutes, go for a ride to burn off.

Yes, when you pour the seafoam it would go down to the motor, but no big deal once the motor kicks in, all will be evacuated into the air valve, exhaust passage, and some will go to the intake manifold via the smaller vacuum hose.

I will be doing this to all my cars as a preventive maintenance. You wouldn't believe how quiet my SAP now :thumbup:
 

· Registered
Joined
·
4,296 Posts
Discussion Starter · #30 ·
16valex, how are things with your SAP nowadays?

I noticed my pump a few times (many months ago) to be quite noisy on -some- occasions, not always (more of a loud electrical buzz than a choo-choo), but in recent months I've heard nothing from it. Maybe it is dead...

My car starts fine, runs fine, no CELs, nothing ... but the silence is worrisome. Time to diagnose but wanted to get some clarification with the Seafoam.

If you are running Seafoam through the valve, does it go straight into the cats (ex. manifold) and out the exhaust? Or into the cylinders/valvetrain at all?
I did not save the soul of the SAP with Seafoam, it went belly up like a puffer fish out of water, I since replaced it with new one.

You're probably right with your SAP, your SAP is giving you the silence treatment which is not good in this case.

I assuming it goes straight to exhaust, but not 100 percent sure..
 

· Registered
Joined
·
4,296 Posts
Discussion Starter · #33 ·
This morning it was about as cold as it usually can get here in wintertime, just below freezing. I unplugged the pump hose from the diverter valve and cranked the car.

The flow from the pump is very strong and steady but the pump itself I cannot hear over the engine.

The diverter valve inlet has vacuum, but it is not anywhere as strong as the air blowing out the pump hose.

I suppose this means time to replace the valve. Thing sure looks clean and shiny but it's probably 12.5 years old.

My other car wants a battery.... I'm about ready to join a monastery, too much material controlling my life. :mad:
Pete, sounds to me your SAP is working orderly. The diverter valve's vacuum just enough to open the valve to let the air into the engine. I would not do a thing to it..
 

· Registered
Joined
·
4,296 Posts
Discussion Starter · #47 ·
My SAP pump and valve is less than two years old. The loud thumping sound is still there. I'm pissed.

I also replaced the damn electric switch. Every thing is working, but what pisses me off is the loud thumping is still there and to add to the madness I have a have CEL on for SAP. :mad::mad::mad:... I just ignore the bastard.

However, I just ordered a new pressure hose for 27 dollars, it's not too expensive, I'm going to replace this hose soon.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
4,296 Posts
Discussion Starter · #50 ·
The Volvo people have been deleting their SAS system all the time.

Now if some smart people here can figure how to do the E39 SAS delete, that would be great!
I have tried and bought an SAS SIM, but the instruction that came was for e36 not for e39, the wiring and color codes were not the same. I returned the SIM and got my money back.

I'm sick of SAS.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
4,296 Posts
Discussion Starter · #51 ·
Alex,

I think you were on to something there with the problem possibly being a gunked-up exhaust manifold...
Ever think about the POST-cat Oxygen Sensors being bad...?

Just a thought...

Thanks!
Jason
Yeah That is what I'm afraid of, I'd rather replace the pressure hose than remove the exhaust manifold. It maybe the inevitable. It will the next thing to do after the pressure hose. I should find out soon enough.
Post O2 are also less than two years old.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
4,296 Posts
Discussion Starter · #54 ·
Oh my gosh!!!! Live and learn everyday on these cars.

So I was waiting for my SAS pressure hose to arrive, but just for giggle one cold morning I removed the SAP hose from the air valve during a cold start, to my very surprise there was nothing coming out of the hose, which can only means my SAP is dead!!!!

So, the thumping noise I heard was actually came from the exhaust back into the pump, all this time I thought something in the exhaust manifold is clogged...DUH!!!

Found the cheapest new Pielburg pump on the internet for 200 bucks from BMA, installed the pump along with the new pressure hose. No more thumping sound. :thumbup:
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top