I have read in the TIS bulletin that carbon deposits are a problem with the V8s. I do not believe they are as bad a problem with the I6s. However, some I6s just spit out SAPs. My previous e39 went through four SAP pumps in 75K! My current one has 96K and is still on the original pump. Who knows why? :dunno: I could not even determine the SAP failure mode on my previous e39. And the check valve was changed with the pump each time. I wish I knew but I don't...
Loud secondary air pump
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BMW says thats because there was probably nothing wrong with the SAP in the first place.My previous e39 went through four SAP pumps in 75K!
At least that's what the TIS says.
It says "Past experience has shown that the failure of the secondary air system is not attributed to a component fault in the secondary air pump but rather to the secondary air check valve not closing/opening or the actuating relay sticking."
The bmw tis calls that "soiling".fudman, do you think this SAS could be impacted by carbon deposits?
It says "Due to soiling, the electric valve can no longer close mechanically. Consequently, the secondary air check valve is also no longer closed. Hot exhaust gas constantly flows through the secondary air check valve thus damaging it and possibly also the secondary air pump."
I can't find that tis.here is the BMW TIS for that problem:
http://www.bmwtis.net/tsb/bulletins/bulletin_graphic_temp/B110504g.htm
http://www.bmwtis.net/ tsb/bulletins/bulletin_graphic_temp/B110504g.htm
The best I can find is this.
http://tis.spaghetticoder.org/s/view.pl?1/07/90/34
Or this.
http://motorvate.ca/ bmw/BMW_Secondary_Air_System_Failure.pdf
Is Fudmans tis the same as one of those two?
Bump...16valex, how are things with your SAP nowadays?
I noticed my pump a few times (many months ago) to be quite noisy on -some- occasions, not always
(more of a loud electrical buzz than a choo-choo), but in recent months I've heard nothing from it. Maybe it is dead...
My car starts fine, runs fine, no CELs, nothing ... but the silence is worrisome. Time to diagnose but wanted to get some clarification with the Seafoam.
If you are running Seafoam through the valve, does it go straight into the cats (ex. manifold) and out the exhaust? Or into the cylinders/valvetrain at all?
My pump has recently started making this loud humming noise at cold start-up in the mornings as well...
I plan on cleaning the Valve per JimLev's writeup...
I replaced my SAS valve recently at about 100K. It was not cheap (~$80) but after having chronic SAP problems on my previous e39, I figured it was an "investment" to maintain my current good luck with this SAP.
My SAP pump and valve is less than two years old. The loud thumping sound is still there. I'm pissed.
I also replaced the damn electric switch. Every thing is working, but what pisses me off is the loud thumping is still there and to add to the madness I have a have CEL on for SAP.
... I just ignore the bastard.
However, I just ordered a new pressure hose for 27 dollars, it's not too expensive, I'm going to replace this hose soon.
I also replaced the damn electric switch. Every thing is working, but what pisses me off is the loud thumping is still there and to add to the madness I have a have CEL on for SAP.
... I just ignore the bastard.However, I just ordered a new pressure hose for 27 dollars, it's not too expensive, I'm going to replace this hose soon.
Alex,My SAP pump and valve is less than two years old. The loud thumping sound is still there. I'm pissed.
I also replaced the damn electric switch. Every thing is working, but what pisses me off is the loud thumping is still there and to add to the madness I have a have CEL on for SAP.
However, I just ordered a new pressure hose for 27 dollars, it's not too expensive, I'm going to replace this hose soon.
I think you were on to something there with the problem possibly being a gunked-up exhaust manifold...
Ever think about the POST-cat Oxygen Sensors being bad...?
Just a thought...
Thanks!
Jason
The Volvo people have been deleting their SAS system all the time.
Now if some smart people here can figure how to do the E39 SAS delete, that would be great!
Now if some smart people here can figure how to do the E39 SAS delete, that would be great!
I have tried and bought an SAS SIM, but the instruction that came was for e36 not for e39, the wiring and color codes were not the same. I returned the SIM and got my money back.The Volvo people have been deleting their SAS system all the time.
Now if some smart people here can figure how to do the E39 SAS delete, that would be great!
I'm sick of SAS.
Yeah That is what I'm afraid of, I'd rather replace the pressure hose than remove the exhaust manifold. It maybe the inevitable. It will the next thing to do after the pressure hose. I should find out soon enough.Alex,
I think you were on to something there with the problem possibly being a gunked-up exhaust manifold...
Ever think about the POST-cat Oxygen Sensors being bad...?
Just a thought...
Thanks!
Jason
Post O2 are also less than two years old.
Here is my check valve @ +/- 90 k milesfudman, do you think this SAS could be impacted by carbon deposits? I saw the m5 engine photos and wondered if the system on these i6 engines could have the same problems? Or if carbon deposits or clogging could kill the valve and pump.
yes, it had heavy carbon depositis.
2
I just pulled my SAP valve out of the boneyard and it looks exactly like Dorin's. I tried to take a picture but I could not get a good focus at the close distance. While the manifold side of the valve looks like it has caked on carbon deposits, it should. It is constantly exposed to the exhaust stream. However, if you look into the SAP inlet side, it should look clean, as that side is not exposed to the exhaust flow. If it is dirty, then your valve is not closing properly.
Oh my gosh!!!! Live and learn everyday on these cars.
So I was waiting for my SAS pressure hose to arrive, but just for giggle one cold morning I removed the SAP hose from the air valve during a cold start, to my very surprise there was nothing coming out of the hose, which can only means my SAP is dead!!!!
So, the thumping noise I heard was actually came from the exhaust back into the pump, all this time I thought something in the exhaust manifold is clogged...DUH!!!
Found the cheapest new Pielburg pump on the internet for 200 bucks from BMA, installed the pump along with the new pressure hose. No more thumping sound. :thumbup:
So I was waiting for my SAS pressure hose to arrive, but just for giggle one cold morning I removed the SAP hose from the air valve during a cold start, to my very surprise there was nothing coming out of the hose, which can only means my SAP is dead!!!!
So, the thumping noise I heard was actually came from the exhaust back into the pump, all this time I thought something in the exhaust manifold is clogged...DUH!!!
Found the cheapest new Pielburg pump on the internet for 200 bucks from BMA, installed the pump along with the new pressure hose. No more thumping sound. :thumbup:
Make sure your Air Valve is newish.
A bad Air valve will kill the new SAS Pump.
A bad Air valve will kill the new SAS Pump.
WOW! :yikes:Oh my gosh!!!! Live and learn everyday on these cars.
So I was waiting for my SAS pressure hose to arrive, but just for giggle one cold morning I removed the SAP hose from the air valve during a cold start, to my very surprise there was nothing coming out of the hose, which can only means my SAP is dead!!!!
So, the thumping noise I heard was actually came from the exhaust back into the pump, all this time I thought something in the exhaust manifold is clogged...DUH!!!
Found the cheapest new Pielburg pump on the internet for 200 bucks from BMA, installed the pump along with the new pressure hose. No more thumping sound. :thumbup:
Yeah man, the fact that I had to shed out 200 bucks which I wasn't to happy for something that has no effect to the engine's performance other than drawing air to dilute emission gases during a cold start. But in a way I'm also happy to have put this thumping sound to rest and no more SAS codes.WOW! :yikes:
Yep, I am sorry that you had to spend $200...Yeah man, the fact that I had to shed out 200 bucks which I wasn't to happy for something that has no effect to the engine's performance other than drawing air to dilute emission gases during a cold start. But in a way I'm also happy to have put this thumping sound to rest and no more SAS codes.
I am not sure if you mentioned it or not, but, did you have a check engine light on?
Thanks!
Jason
This thread is old, started with the thumping noise and no engine light, but then months later engine threw SAS system bank1 and Bank2.Yep, I am sorry that you had to spend $200...
I am not sure if you mentioned it or not, but, did you have a check engine light on?
Thanks!
Jason
I then started to look into a simulator but didn't work out, so I had to go back and look into fix it the old fashion way, and this is how I found out the SAP was dead.
I remember you said yours was getting a bit loud. Have you ever found out any thing?
Just wanted to say that I'm glad you solved your PITA SAS/SAP problem, Alex.
Just for clarification the SAS system pumps air and hence oxygen directly into the exhaust manifold and exhaust system to help the CATs light off quicker thereby reducing cold start emissions sooner. Since the upstream O2's are in open loop during cold start and warmup, they are used by the ECU to detect a lean mixture which means that the SAS system is working. If the O2's detect a richer mixture, they indicate low or no flow from the SAS and set fault codes accordingly. Once the O2's go into closed loop, the SAP has shut off as has the vacuum to the check valve and the SAS job is done and the upstream O2's go back to their normal job of feeding the ECU info for mixture control.
WOW, that sure seems like alot of trouble to clean up the exhaust a few minutes (seconds) early. I guess every second counts. Lol.
Just for clarification the SAS system pumps air and hence oxygen directly into the exhaust manifold and exhaust system to help the CATs light off quicker thereby reducing cold start emissions sooner. Since the upstream O2's are in open loop during cold start and warmup, they are used by the ECU to detect a lean mixture which means that the SAS system is working. If the O2's detect a richer mixture, they indicate low or no flow from the SAS and set fault codes accordingly. Once the O2's go into closed loop, the SAP has shut off as has the vacuum to the check valve and the SAS job is done and the upstream O2's go back to their normal job of feeding the ECU info for mixture control.
WOW, that sure seems like alot of trouble to clean up the exhaust a few minutes (seconds) early. I guess every second counts. Lol.
41 - 60 of 66 Posts
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