M54 Water Pump Failure

2245 Views 41 Replies 14 Participants Last post by Attacking Mid, 8 d ago

Attacking Mid

Discussion Starter · 15 d ago

This is from my E53, but posting here for the benefit of pre-LCI E83 owners. Based on my online research, this is not a widespread problem, so I don't think one needs to draw negative conclusions about Saleri WP's or composite impellers. However, it's just something to consider as a possibility if you have a strange overheating problem. A sheared WP impeller just doesn't jump to to the top of the troubleshooting list and I've read reports of multiple professionals failing to figure this out. With that said,... for your viewing pleasure:

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This WP only had 45K miles on it. The first symptom was inconsistent cabin heating, which I assumed to be a failing thermostat, so no urgency to fix. The second symptom was an upper radiator hose failure resulting in loss of coolant and brief overheating, so still no reason to suspect I had any other issues. Since I had to replace the upper hose, I decided it was a good time to replace that suspect thermostat and I put in a new ET for good measure. No more apparent cooling system issues for all the short trips I used it for (it's a backup vehicle, so doesn't see any long distance driving), except... the cabin heater still didn't work quite right which puzzled me.

I should have used Torque or similar to check actual coolant temps rather than relying on the heavily damped dash temp gauge, but again... I didn't suspect I had anything wrong. Out of nowhere, I got the ominous "ding" notifying me of high coolant temps. I had to abandon the vehicle a few miles from home to let it cool overnight. I was able to get it home the next morning just before overheating again. Thinking through all the symptoms, I suspected I had perhaps a blockage of some sort in the cooling system preventing flow. Turned out I was ALMOST right!

AM.

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Attacking Mid

Discussion Starter · #5 · 15 d ago

Bearing feels perfect. 95% of the material was retrieved in 3 large pieces as pictured. That leaves some smaller fragments that are either lingering inside somewhere or were drained out before I realized the need to be looking for such debris. As best I could, I backflushed the engine with my garden hose. I also backflushed the heater core. I plan to remove the radiator so I can back flush it also. So far, I have not observed any debris being flushed out.

As far as the composite vs. metal impeller issue, I don't think there's a problem with a properly made composite impeller. There's something fishy about the impeller on this particular pump. It does not appear to be made of the same material as other genuine BMW pumps or even other OE Saleri pumps. This pump was bought in January, 2019 from FCP Euro. Today I ordered an identical replacement and plan to send this one back under their lifetime warranty plan. If the new Saleri pump resembles the one I have, then I won't install it, but will seek out a pump with the correct impeller material. The impeller that failed is marked PA66-GF 30. Searching online reveals other Saleri and BMW pumps with impellers marked PPS-GF 40. I'm not a materials expert, but clearly these are not the same composite materials. There are other visual differences in the pumps I've viewed online vs. the failed one I have. I'll be curious to see what I receive from FCP. It's almost as if I received a counterfeit pump, but that's hard to imagine coming from FCP. I'm in CO, so it will be next week before the new pump arrives.

AM.

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Attacking Mid

Discussion Starter · #8 · 15 d ago

Yeah, my cooling system was pristine inside. This E53 was a one-owner, dealer-maintained vehicle, so it has been well taken care of.

As far as the composite impellers go - if you search on BMW forums you'll find very few reports of failures like mine. There was one guy on the most popular E53 forum (X-Outpost) that had the exact same issue as me, AND, he seemed to have the same inferior impeller on a Saleri pump from FCP probably purchased about the same time as mine. Another possibility is that someone did a switcharoo on a return to FCP by sending back a knockoff pump and keeping the genuine Saleri pump. It would be easy for someone handling returns at FCP to not notice and simply put it back in inventory. Again, I'll be curious to see what arrives next week.

Doug, I did a little reading on the differences in the two composites, but about all I could determine is that the PPS-GF 40 is definitely a more costly composite to produce.

AM.

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Attacking Mid

Discussion Starter · #12 · 15 d ago

Hmmmm.... I've not found that in my forums browsing. Sure there are reports of failed Saleri WP's, but there are probably millions of them in service, so naturally there are failures. I have NOT come across reports of impellers disintegrating, however. And, as I said, I suspect I may not have received a genuine Saleri WP. Mine has no markings whatsoever on the pump housing and the impeller is an inferior material.

I'm not against using a different brand, I'm just not convinced there's anything wrong with the OE Saleri pumps. I may change my mind if the one I get from FCP looks like the one that just failed!

AM.

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Attacking Mid

Discussion Starter · #14 · 14 d ago

I carefully examined the coolant in my drain pan today and there ARE small flakes of plastic in there. They are all very small - grain of sand size. I also figured out a way to back flush the radiator insitu, and I pulled the block drain and flushed back from there. I'm pretty confident I'm not going to have an issue with any debris left inside. I'm really curious to see what the Saleri pump looks like when it arrives from FCP.

This site lists the properties of the two composites in question: PPS/GF40 Black｜Glass fiber reinforced grade｜PRODUCTS｜Kureha Extron Co., Ltd . The PPS-GF 40 has a tensile strength of 196 MPa vs. 116 for PA66-GF 30. The former seems to be up to the task, but the latter... not so much!

AM.

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Attacking Mid

Discussion Starter · #17 · 14 d ago

BMWaufKS said:
Did you pull the t-stat? I would, close back up (without the t-stat), flush/backflush, then put in a new t-stat. (IDK what the M54's t-stat if separate from its housing. If one unit, remove its guts for the flushes?)

Yes, I removed the t-stat and backflushed through its passage to the engine. I had just replaced the t-stat prior to discovering this WP problem. No need to replace it again.

AM.

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Attacking Mid

Discussion Starter · #18 · 14 d ago

cn90 said:
A similar discussion on Saleri WP in Xoutpost E53 (X5) forum...

Water Pump Carnage - Xoutpost.com

I'm starting another thread here to go along with my Head Gasket thread but this topic deserves its own space. Last night after removing the Jesus

xoutpost.com

Yep, I posted there as you know. This was the ONE guy I could find who reported the same problem I have. The fact I couldn't find more reports is what makes me suspect I (and probably he) somehow received a counterfeit. As many pumps as Saleri sells, if they were all going out with those inferior impellers, you would think the interwebs would be full of reports of disintegrating impellers. The OP in the Xoutpost thread only got 18K miles before failure. Mine went 45K. Anectdotally, one would expect these things to be crashing/burning all over the place.

The pump I have is visually different from virtually all the photos I can find online. The Saleri/BMW pumps all show casting marks and a larger/different freeze plug weep hole area. My pump has no marks of any kind and the freeze plug weep hole area is visually smaller. Most importantly though is the material difference in the impellers as discussed above. Quite simply, the pump I have is NOT the same as the Saleri/BMW pumps that have proven quite reliable.

I'll update when I get the replacement from FCP.

AM.

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Attacking Mid

Discussion Starter · #22 · 14 d ago

Searching around on BMW WP-related threads reveals.... most any of the recognized brands are probably fine and will generally serve for a reasonable life span (e.g., 80K+ miles). It also reveals anectdotally every brand has suffered premature failures. I can't recall the brand of metal-impellered pump I put in my E46 years ago, but I recall being a little disappointed when it failed after a shorter interval than I had hoped. It would have been probably a Hepu or Graf, but I don't recall. Doesn't make that brand bad, I was just a little unlucky. You can also find anectdotal reports of 150k+ lifespans for any/all the major brands. I know CN90 is a big fan of the Hepu pump - as evidenced around the interwebs on multiple BMW forums, but like all brands, Hepu also have anectdotal reports of premature failure. Again, doesn't make them bad, though I'm not convinced they are better or worse than the other brands. I think they're fine and would not rule out installing one.

The Saleri/BMW pump is likely the most widely used pump out there for M54's, yet reports of early demise don't seem to be significantly more common than the other brands. That's why I'm comfortable putting another Saleri in my car - so long as it appears to be built like the genuine BMW pump as evidenced by housing design, casting marks, and impeller material. Either way, once I've resolved this project, I plan to contact FCP to discuss this inferior WP I received from them 4 years ago. I trust FCP and respect their efforts to only offer reasonable quality replacement parts. I'll be curious what they have to say.

AM.

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Attacking Mid

Discussion Starter · #26 · 14 d ago (Edited)

applehugger said:
Out of curiosity, what was the mode of failure for the metal impeller water pump that you put in your E46?

FCP's customer service is amazing. They'll definitely be interested to hear from you and care about your experience. I really like that business.

Just typical bearing failure resulting in dripping coolant. I remember I didn't have time to wait for a mailordered replacement and ended up using a FLAPS pump. I also knew I planned to sell the car relatively soon. Does that make me a bad person?

Just got an email that my WP has been shipped. The bad news is.... they used UPS Mail Innovations. I guess I'll see it in a couple weeks. That's the main downside to FCP for me being out west. If I need faster delivery I use AutohausAZ, RMEuropean, etc.

AM.

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Attacking Mid

Discussion Starter · #29 · 14 d ago

Friendly Local Auto Parts Store.

Doug, I'm not aware of what the bearing material is in your basic mechanically driven water pump. I thought it was the electric pumps that used the fancy Graphitar bearings, but I could be wrong. All mechanical WP's have a weep hole. As the bearing fails and the shaft develops play, the weep hole becomes a drip hole as more coolant is able to bypass the internal seal. That's my understanding of it anyway.

AM.

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Attacking Mid

Discussion Starter · #40 · 9 d ago

abscate said:
Tracking quality on submarines by lack of reported failures is a sunk cost fallacy

This is truly beneath you!

AM.

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Attacking Mid

Discussion Starter · #42 · 8 d ago (Edited)

I received the new Saleri pump today from FCP, and unfortunately it's the same crappy quality component they sent me last time. I sent them an email explaining everything, and I hope they consider removing these pumps from their catalog - or demand Saleri send them the higher quality version I've seen offered by other sellers. The photos on their website show the Saleri pump with the good PPS-GF 40 impeller: BMW Water Pump - Saleri PA659S

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The failed PA66-GF 30 composite impeller, the same crappy impeller on the new pump I received from FCP, and a photo of a Salari genuine BMW pump with a PPS-GF 40 composite impeller.

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FCP Saleri on the left, Saleri genuine BMW on right. Notice the difference in the freeze plug/weep hole casting size. These are NOT the same pump housings.

Sadly, I have to return this crappy pump and get a better unit. I may go with the Hepu unit as suggested, as among the choices left at FCP, I think it's my best choice.

If you bought and installed a Saleri pump from FCP in recent years, be wary that the impeller could fail prematurely like mine. I'd go so far as to suggest removing and inspecting it sometime soon. If you have the same PA66-GF 30 impeller, I would get a better pump rather than risk overheating your engine and being stranded.

AM.

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