M54 Water Pump Failure

2245 Views 41 Replies 14 Participants Last post by Attacking Mid, 8 d ago

Attacking Mid

Discussion Starter · 15 d ago

This is from my E53, but posting here for the benefit of pre-LCI E83 owners. Based on my online research, this is not a widespread problem, so I don't think one needs to draw negative conclusions about Saleri WP's or composite impellers. However, it's just something to consider as a possibility if you have a strange overheating problem. A sheared WP impeller just doesn't jump to to the top of the troubleshooting list and I've read reports of multiple professionals failing to figure this out. With that said,... for your viewing pleasure:

Hood Automotive tire Motor vehicle Toy Automotive design

This WP only had 45K miles on it. The first symptom was inconsistent cabin heating, which I assumed to be a failing thermostat, so no urgency to fix. The second symptom was an upper radiator hose failure resulting in loss of coolant and brief overheating, so still no reason to suspect I had any other issues. Since I had to replace the upper hose, I decided it was a good time to replace that suspect thermostat and I put in a new ET for good measure. No more apparent cooling system issues for all the short trips I used it for (it's a backup vehicle, so doesn't see any long distance driving), except... the cabin heater still didn't work quite right which puzzled me.

I should have used Torque or similar to check actual coolant temps rather than relying on the heavily damped dash temp gauge, but again... I didn't suspect I had anything wrong. Out of nowhere, I got the ominous "ding" notifying me of high coolant temps. I had to abandon the vehicle a few miles from home to let it cool overnight. I was able to get it home the next morning just before overheating again. Thinking through all the symptoms, I suspected I had perhaps a blockage of some sort in the cooling system preventing flow. Turned out I was ALMOST right!

AM.

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Doug Huffman

· #21 · 14 d ago

Really?

No wrong metal material? Take a look at a chart of electronegativity - susceptibility to corrosion. Look to the hierarchy of machinability, of fatigue resistance.

Tell us about your profession and the years of education, training and practice to be so …

Attacking Mid

Discussion Starter · #22 · 14 d ago

Searching around on BMW WP-related threads reveals.... most any of the recognized brands are probably fine and will generally serve for a reasonable life span (e.g., 80K+ miles). It also reveals anectdotally every brand has suffered premature failures. I can't recall the brand of metal-impellered pump I put in my E46 years ago, but I recall being a little disappointed when it failed after a shorter interval than I had hoped. It would have been probably a Hepu or Graf, but I don't recall. Doesn't make that brand bad, I was just a little unlucky. You can also find anectdotal reports of 150k+ lifespans for any/all the major brands. I know CN90 is a big fan of the Hepu pump - as evidenced around the interwebs on multiple BMW forums, but like all brands, Hepu also have anectdotal reports of premature failure. Again, doesn't make them bad, though I'm not convinced they are better or worse than the other brands. I think they're fine and would not rule out installing one.

The Saleri/BMW pump is likely the most widely used pump out there for M54's, yet reports of early demise don't seem to be significantly more common than the other brands. That's why I'm comfortable putting another Saleri in my car - so long as it appears to be built like the genuine BMW pump as evidenced by housing design, casting marks, and impeller material. Either way, once I've resolved this project, I plan to contact FCP to discuss this inferior WP I received from them 4 years ago. I trust FCP and respect their efforts to only offer reasonable quality replacement parts. I'll be curious what they have to say.

AM.

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applehugger

· #23 · 14 d ago

Attacking Mid said:
I can't recall the brand of metal-impellered pump I put in my E46 years ago, but I recall being a little disappointed when it failed after a shorter interval than I had hoped.

Out of curiosity, what was the mode of failure for the metal impeller water pump that you put in your E46?

FCP's customer service is amazing. They'll definitely be interested to hear from you and care about your experience. I really like that business.

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cn90

· #24 · 14 d ago

I can tell you my friend's 2004 X3 2.5i with 150K miles.
I was helping him change the WP.
Believe it or not, the factory WP made it to 150K, but the bearing was making noise and wobble.
The factory impeller (? Black composite material) was still intact at 150K.

Anyway, good practice is 100K-110K for WP. Don't push it too far lol...

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frisbeeguy

· #25 · 14 d ago

Doug Huffman said:
Tell us about your profession and the years of education, training and practice to be so …

Nose Facial expression Mouth Cartoon Ear

really tho, this line is too harsh.

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Attacking Mid

Discussion Starter · #26 · 14 d ago (Edited)

applehugger said:
Out of curiosity, what was the mode of failure for the metal impeller water pump that you put in your E46?

FCP's customer service is amazing. They'll definitely be interested to hear from you and care about your experience. I really like that business.

Just typical bearing failure resulting in dripping coolant. I remember I didn't have time to wait for a mailordered replacement and ended up using a FLAPS pump. I also knew I planned to sell the car relatively soon. Does that make me a bad person?

Just got an email that my WP has been shipped. The bad news is.... they used UPS Mail Innovations. I guess I'll see it in a couple weeks. That's the main downside to FCP for me being out west. If I need faster delivery I use AutohausAZ, RMEuropean, etc.

AM.

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Doug Huffman

· #27 · 14 d ago

Attacking Mid said:
Just typical bearing failure resulting in dripping coolant. I remember I didn't have time to wait for a mailordered replacement and ended up using a FLAPS pump. I also knew I planned to sell the car relatively soon. Does that make me a bad person?

Yes, I agree that bearing failures are probably the typical ECP failure. They are Graphitar and fragile. Can you, will you explain a bit how that resulted in “dripping coolant” from a wet rotor motor pump, please?

USG GLEDCO - Engineered Carbon, Graphite, Manufacturer

We are specialists in engineered solutions in carbon and graphite. From our manufacturing facilities in the UK, USA and Mexico and our sales offices in Europe, USG-Gledco are able to offer customers high levels of service and technical support for carbon and graphite components on a global basis.

www.usggledco.co.uk

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applehugger

· #28 · 14 d ago

Haha I don't think so. What is a FLAPS pump?

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Attacking Mid

Discussion Starter · #29 · 14 d ago

Friendly Local Auto Parts Store.

Doug, I'm not aware of what the bearing material is in your basic mechanically driven water pump. I thought it was the electric pumps that used the fancy Graphitar bearings, but I could be wrong. All mechanical WP's have a weep hole. As the bearing fails and the shaft develops play, the weep hole becomes a drip hole as more coolant is able to bypass the internal seal. That's my understanding of it anyway.

AM.

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dukedkt442

· #30 · 14 d ago

Doug Huffman said:
Yes, I agree that bearing failures are probably the typical ECP failure. They are Graphitar and fragile. Can you, will you explain a bit how that resulted in “dripping coolant” from a wet rotor motor pump, please?

USG GLEDCO - Engineered Carbon, Graphite, Manufacturer

We are specialists in engineered solutions in carbon and graphite. From our manufacturing facilities in the UK, USA and Mexico and our sales offices in Europe, USG-Gledco are able to offer customers high levels of service and technical support for carbon and graphite components on a global basis.

www.usggledco.co.uk

M54s don’t use electric coolant pumps, which this is. Can you explain how an M54 would have one?

You didn’t just buy a BMW if money was of any concern, did you?

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shameshame1

· #31 · 14 d ago

dukedkt442 said:
M54s don’t use electric coolant pumps, which this is. Can you explain how an M54 would have one?

You didn’t just buy a BMW if money was of any concern, did you?

I think he's having trouble understanding BMW chassis codes...or subforums...or something.

But he's not responsible for our understanding so we may never know. Fools and Angels and such.

The auxiliary coolant pump is electric and maybe he thinks the E83 gas an auxiliary pump with an impeller the size of a grapefruit for some reason.

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applehugger

· #32 · 14 d ago

Oh, Doug must be commenting. There’s an ignore button. It greatly improved my Bimmerfest experience 🤣

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frisbeeguy

· #33 · 14 d ago

applehugger said:
Oh, Doug must be commenting. There’s an ignore button. It greatly improved my Bimmerfest experience 🤣

Lol. That explains why you didn’t see his post directed to u. I get it now!

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applehugger

· #34 · 14 d ago

frisbeeguy said:
Lol. That explains why you didn’t see his post directed to u. I get it now!

Blissfully unaware

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BimmurBrothor

· #35 · 13 d ago

Gotta love that ignor feature...

www.bimmerfest.com

PSA "Blocking" is a good thing!

I will soundly submit to you that my posts are not for everyone! I'm fine with that! And therefore vise versa. I use the app tap-a-talk. I've used it from the start of it's offering. FYI there is a handy feature that basically allows me...(the user) to block selected posters, comments and of...

www.bimmerfest.com

www.bimmerfest.com

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Webb0603

· #36 · 12 d ago

Attacking Mid said:
This is from my E53, but posting here for the benefit of pre-LCI E83 owners. Based on my online research, this is not a widespread problem, so I don't think one needs to draw negative conclusions about Saleri WP's or composite impellers. However, it's just something to consider as a possibility if you have a strange overheating problem. A sheared WP impeller just doesn't jump to to the top of the troubleshooting list and I've read reports of multiple professionals failing to figure this out. With that said,... for your viewing pleasure:

View attachment 1085484

This WP only had 45K miles on it. The first symptom was inconsistent cabin heating, which I assumed to be a failing thermostat, so no urgency to fix. The second symptom was an upper radiator hose failure resulting in loss of coolant and brief overheating, so still no reason to suspect I had any other issues. Since I had to replace the upper hose, I decided it was a good time to replace that suspect thermostat and I put in a new ET for good measure. No more apparent cooling system issues for all the short trips I used it for (it's a backup vehicle, so doesn't see any long distance driving), except... the cabin heater still didn't work quite right which puzzled me.

I should have used Torque or similar to check actual coolant temps rather than relying on the heavily damped dash temp gauge, but again... I didn't suspect I had anything wrong. Out of nowhere, I got the ominous "ding" notifying me of high coolant temps. I had to abandon the vehicle a few miles from home to let it cool overnight. I was able to get it home the next morning just before overheating again. Thinking through all the symptoms, I suspected I had perhaps a blockage of some sort in the cooling system preventing flow. Turned out I was ALMOST r

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abscate

· #37 · 11 d ago

Doug May be gruff but he is 100% on point with his remark about metal. The influx of pot metal into alloys in the last 10 years as China ships back all the toasters we sent over in containers is epic in car parts.

That Bosch rebuilt alternator you just ordered has about 1/2 as much copper as your OE

That metal impeller is a distant cousin from OE, too.

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mmoffitt

· #38 · 9 d ago

Doug Huffman said:
Really?

No wrong metal material? Take a look at a chart of electronegativity - susceptibility to corrosion. Look to the hierarchy of machinability, of fatigue resistance.

Tell us about your profession and the years of education, training and practice to be so …

You love Doug or you hate him.. I like Doug and in his line of work there is/was NO room for failure NONE!... A lot of Cowboys on all these sites but this is what makes it sooooo much fun! listen to your elders especialy the ones who know a thing or two have the experience and the education to back it up1!! Everyone be well Blessed Easter,Passover and Ramadan Season

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abscate

· #39 · 9 d ago

Tracking quality on submarines by lack of reported failures is a sunk cost fallacy

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Attacking Mid

Discussion Starter · #40 · 9 d ago

abscate said:
Tracking quality on submarines by lack of reported failures is a sunk cost fallacy

This is truly beneath you!

AM.

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