BimmerFest BMW Forum banner

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi,

This is on an 4.4 2000 X5 but thought it get more views here.*

I bought the x5 as a non runner because it needed the guides and tranny done. So I really do not know how it was before the guides went. Fixed both. Problem is I am getting a code 114. 114 camshaft sensor bank 2 Current to big. I was hoping it was just a bad sensor. But a new BMW sensor did not fix the problem. From what I have read it can be caused the cam timing being off as well.*

Using INPA to read the bank 2 cam timing there is some weird stuff going on, or seems weird to me. Camshaft Bank 2 Timing is usually around 10 (Bank 1 is 0) Vanos angle 2 is 10.20 (angle 1 is 0) Which would lead me to believe the cam is off. The weird thing is moves around quite a bit. Bank 2 will go down to 0 for a bit, then bounce up to 34, then drop back to 10. Angle 2 also move around from 0 to 34.*

Is this normal behavior? ECU trying to correct back cam timing? Or is it mechanical? Vanos unit going out? (There is 0 rattle on startup) and I changed out the check valves when doing the chains.*

Also about 1000Km after fixing the guides a very loud tick developed from the bank 2 valve cover. Definitely sounds like a stuck or bad lifter. (slow cam speed, not faster like a rod)

Any ideas?
Thank you
Steve

Sent from my XT1034 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,101 Posts
Did you do the Besian VANOS rebuild while there? More thoughts if so.
Regardless of the rebuild, did you retime it?
Swap the solenoids to see if it follows. Could be a solenoid issue.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
I did not rebuild the vanos. As the truck was completely unknown to me I wanted to get it running as cheap as possible and see what was what.

I used the german auto solutions timing block setup. Worked well, but the more I think about it I have to see if I could have screwed up setting the timing wheel. I have to look at the tool and procedure again I think it's possible to mix up the timing wheel position.

I think the cams are set right as that is done with locks and I did it twice to check. Plus the truck itself runs great. Engine feels smooth and looks smooth on INPA. Just the check engine light and the very loud ticking.

Good call on swapping the solenoids. I will give it a shot in the next week.

Thanks
Steve



Sent from my XT1034 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
527 Posts
Am I mistaken in thinking the 4.4 is an interference motor so if your cam timing was off you'd have bent valves at a minimum. given those fluctuations did you tighten the bolts correctly on the Vanos? Then there's the aforementioned Vanos solenoid issue. You may have dropped something into the motor and it's now blocking a galley, I'm sure you're running new fully synthetic oil. Stumped, keep us posted please
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,247 Posts
Did you watch the video I posted on how to set the timing?
You either didn't retard the vanos correctly or the trigger (timing wheels) are not set correctly, or both.
It's not your vanos solenoids.
Good luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,101 Posts
Did you watch the video I posted on how to set the timing?
You either didn't retard the vanos correctly or the trigger (timing wheels) are not set correctly, or both.
It's not your vanos solenoids.
Good luck.
That is what I am thinking too but hoping for something "easier". The main reasons I am thinking swap solenoids first:
1) easier than a tear-down
2) bobdmac's posting on seemingly similar issue. Don't have the same situation here but...

So I have an update on my timing chain and VANOS work. I've put 5,000 miles on the car since I finished the job, and in the last few months I was disappointed with the noise level that seemed to be coming from the VANOS. Then, last week when I was at Donner Tahoe, near Truckee (elevation 7,800 feet), the car started running roughly, and the SES light came on. I was able to drive it back to the cabin where we were staying, and I parked it in the garage.

I had the Creator C-110 with me, and I went back out to read the fault codes and see what the live data would tell me. I got multiple cylinder misfires and inlet camshaft timing malfunction, bank 1. I tried to read the live data, but the SES light started flashing off and on, and it was making random metallic tapping noises so I just shut it down.

Not wanting to have the car repaired in Truckee, I had it towed to IPB Autosports in Sacramento. I was concerned that I had done something wrong when I did the timing chain guide and VANOS repair, and that they would need to dig into the engine. I was relieved when they told me they swapped the bank 1 and bank 2 VANOS solenoids, which caused the malfunction code to shift to bank 2. They replaced both the VANOS solenoids (I figured if one failed, the other probably wouldn't be far behind), and the car is now quieter than than it was immediately after the VANOS seal replacement. With almost 191,00 miles on it, the engine now idles with no more than a mechanical whir--no knocking whatsoever.

So if any of you M62TU owners out there have a VANOS knock that's louder in one cylinder bank, you might want to try swapping the solenoids between the two banks and see if the opposite bank becomes louder. If so, replace the solenoids.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
I am running 5w20 Amsoil right now. Local shop swears by trying a liquimoly treatment. So for $15 I may give it a shot. Won't fix the timing issue but maybe quiet it down.

For the timing wheel and vanos position I followed the german auto solutions or at least think I did. I pulled the vanos units apart and drained all the oil from them. Before tightening them they were tight against the stops. Well I think they were. When I redo it I will use a multimeter. Same for the wheels. The tool I used can easily be flipped to the wrong side. so I may have mixed that up some how.

Could something have come loose? Maybe, but the cams would be all over the place now and there would most likely be carnage. I used a $400 calibrated snap on torque wrench to put it back together, so everything should have been torqued properly.

I turned over the engine a bunch of times when I was done to make sure nothing was binding. Of course with heat and speed things get closer but all was good.

JimLev I have not checked out the video but I will. Have a link?

I think I should be able to retime the cams with only pulling the valve covers and upper chain covers. If so thats an easy day job. If I have to pull the lower cover that will be a nightmare and take forever.

I will definitely keep the post updated. The only issue is I do not have a ton of free time right now. So I may not be able to get at this thing for a few weeks.

Thank you for all the suggestions.
Steve


Sent from my XT1034 using Tapatalk
 

·
Under the lift arms
Joined
·
13,019 Posts
whats your oil pressure?

and how does that sound with another 5-800 Rpm?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
I have not checked the oil pressure. As we know it's not that simple on these engines.

The sound stays exactly the same regardless of rpm. OK it speeds up with rpm but the intensity and sound always remains the same. It also does not change as the engine heats up or cools down.

I changed the oil 500km after sound started and it was pretty clean. Not silver milk that you usually get with a wiped bearing.

Thanks
Steve


Sent from my XT1034 using Tapatalk
 

·
Under the lift arms
Joined
·
13,019 Posts
Idk... does not sound healthy,

i think thats probably all front end motor noise

drop the pan inspect for partials of timing components
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Fair enough.

To me it still sounds like a lifter. I am going to run a liquimoly engine flush on it this week and see what happens.

If that does nothing the next step is to pull the valve covers and see what I see. I can test the lifters and double check the cam timing as well.

This x5 is an extra vehicle so I do not need it fixed tomorrow. I am going to be getting real busy at the end of the month and don't know when I will get to it. I will still keep the post updated as I go but it may take a while

Thanks
Steve.

If that does nothing

Sent from my XT1034 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,998 Posts
It sounds to me like a lifter also. Isolate to one side and just pull the valve cover. Also you can put a screw drive to your ear and move along to find the position of the tick.

Is there no port for oil pressure with an external gauge?

Jim
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
I have an auto stethoscope that I used to locate the sound from the bank 2 valve cover.

There is a port for an external oil gauge. I just need to track it down. I believe it's pretty buried and not somewhere simple like on the oil filter housing.

Thanks
Steve

Sent from my XT1034 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,998 Posts
Pull the valve cover, not hard and I think you will find the prob. If not, little time wasted and the easy one out of the way.

Jim

Oops, a v8, ok, not all that easy but I do think it's a lifter, but B2 is far more exp than I.
 

·
Under the lift arms
Joined
·
13,019 Posts
pull the oil pressure switch off the oil filter housing, and use the gauge there
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
Mini update. Flushed the engine with Liquimoly snake oil and refilled with Amsoil Euro 0w40. 20km later and it still sounds the same. When I get a chance to pull the valve cover I can see if the head is any cleaner.

The good news is the old oil (only had 1000k on it) was pretty clean. As was the magnet on my drain plug. So I am still hopeful that I did not wipe a bearing. However, there are still some aluminum flakes, mainly in the filter, I am assuming it's from the timing chain rubbing the chain cover when guides went.

I saw the pressure switch on the oil filter mount. I am going to try and tee in a pressure gauge. Just gotta figure out the threads. I doubt it is a simple 1/8th inch npt.

Also it sounds like I am now getting some VANOS rattle on start up. The first time I heard it was yesterday and it did it again this morning.

I will update if anything changes.
Thanks
Steve
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top