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A sudden sense of liberty
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Not Wearing Pants
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
JST said:
That is a smokin' deal.

Makes it pretty hard to justify the 3400 lb, 200 hp, $27K GTI, eh?
Quite hard to make a GTI a consideration at all. Admittedly, I'm Mazda biased.
 

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mmm... carbs!
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There are two styling items that really bother me about the 3. One is the shape of the C pillar. The other is the excessive rear bumper outhang. The rear really needs a lower profile bumper.
 

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resU deretsigeR
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blueguydotcom said:
Quite hard to make a GTI a consideration at all.
Maybe this will force VW to bring the R32 to the American market.
 

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resU deretsigeR
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JST said:
That is a smokin' deal.

Makes it pretty hard to justify the 3400 lb, 200 hp, $27K GTI, eh?
I don't know the GTI market price is but we bought our daughter's Jetta for below invoice
 

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A sudden sense of liberty
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Andrew*Debbie said:
Maybe this will force VW to bring the R32 to the American market.
The R32 is coming, but in 3 door, DSG-only form.

I still vastly prefer the VW styling, inside and out, but not enough to ignore the Mazda's significant advantages. Have to check one of these out.
 

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Do the interns get Glocks
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Too bad its a 5 door. If I am going to buy a car that small I dont need rear doors.
I like the styling, still a bit to staid for my liking but I would drive it.
 

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JST said:
That is a smokin' deal.

Makes it pretty hard to justify the 3400 lb, 200 hp, $27K GTI, eh?
The GTI starts at $22,620, not $27k. :confused:

I think Mazda knew that when they priced the Mazdaspeed 3 at $22,800.
 

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resU deretsigeR
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PhilH said:
The GTI starts at $22,620, not $27k. :confused:

I think Mazda knew that when they priced the Mazdaspeed 3 at $22,800.
I just checked VWs website. Yup $22,620 including destination charge. That puts it about $1000 under the Mazda.

The last two VWs we bought were at or under invoice. I'm not sure if I could get that big a discount on a GTI but I'm sure it will stay competitve with Mazda.

Which is the better car? HP isn't everything.
 

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Not Wearing Pants
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Andrew*Debbie said:
I just checked VWs website. Yup $22,620 including destination charge. That puts it about $1000 under the Mazda.

The last two VWs we bought were at or under invoice. I'm not sure if I could get that big a discount on a GTI but I'm sure it will stay competitve with Mazda.

Which is the better car? HP isn't everything.
The mazda you will certainly be able to buy at invoice (or very close). All mazdas - including the mazdaspeed6 - end up selling for near or less than invoice.

As for better - the Mazda3 2.3 already handles far better than VW's GTI. Mix in a tighter suspension and LSD and the Mazdaspeed3 will obliterate a GTI in terms of handling. Remember the Mazdaspeed weighs less than 3k lbs...unlike the portly and tall GTI. Speed-wise the Mazdaspeed3 will have 280-ft-lbs and that LSD will help get the power down correctly in the corners. FWIW, Mazda's manuals are lightyears beyond anything from VW (and BMW) too.

A very real consideration for me is the quality of engineering and build. The build quality of Mazda's Japanese cars, in my experience, is vastly superior cars to any German automaker. No contest. My VWs and BMWs have always been headaches. Every Mazda i've owned or my family has owned runs like a top notch piece of engineering. It's subjective in the end. But I'd trust a Mazda to run and run well for years...not so with a BMW, VW, or MB.

Dollar for dollar the Mazda has it all over the GTI. Mix in the superior ergonomics, better handling (by far), better road feel, better engineering and longterm reliability...well the Mazdaspeed3 is the obvious choice for me.
 

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resU deretsigeR
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blueguydotcom said:
The mazda you will certainly be able to buy at invoice (or very close). All mazdas - including the mazdaspeed6 - end up selling for near or less than invoice.
Do you know a dealer within a days drive of Atlanta that will sell an MX-5 at or below invoice? I've started shopping and haven't gotten close. I know there is a cash incentive and hold back on the car so it should be possible. I'd like to find an honest, no-haggle sales advisor. "Any MX-5 on the lot at invoice +$xx. Lease at the buy rate +.000x"

It's subjective in the end. But I'd trust a Mazda to run and run well for years...not so with a BMW, VW, or MB.
Single samples don't mean much. Debbie had a Mexican built Jetta that went 9 years and 165,000 miles with one problem. Everything worked the day we sold it. My 1990 e34 has been amazing. In the last six years I've spent $1200 on repairs. $900 of that was to replace the original shock absorbers. The car has never stranded me. Not bad for a 16 year old car with 240,000 miles on it. Its currently off road with a broken front shock mount. $300 and I could drive it again.

Current BMWs have average reliablity. I consider that a resonable trade off for the overall experience of driving a BMW.
 

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Not Wearing Pants
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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
Andrew*Debbie said:
Do you know a dealer within a days drive of Atlanta that will sell an MX-5 at or below invoice? I've started shopping and haven't gotten close. I know there is a cash incentive and hold back on the car so it should be possible. I'd like to find an honest, no-haggle sales advisor. "Any MX-5 on the lot at invoice +$xx. Lease at the buy rate +.000x"
California, sorry.

Single samples don't mean much. Debbie had a Mexican built Jetta that went 9 years and 165,000 miles with one problem. Everything worked the day we sold it. My 1990 e34 has been amazing. In the last six years I've spent $1200 on repairs. $900 of that was to replace the original shock absorbers. The car has never stranded me. Not bad for a 16 year old car with 240,000 miles on it. Its currently off road with a broken front shock mount. $300 and I could drive it again.
nice anecdotes. I understand anecdotes are useless in the long run. I like to mix personal experience with hard metrics. The data shows the mazda protege and mx-5 were exceptionally reliable. I've happened to experience that too. Data shows BMW's are average for reliability (which translates to horrible - being in the bracket of average is akin to failure in my eyes) and VWs are far, far below average. My experience with my own bmws and friends and family tells me I know many unlucky people as I don't have any friends or family who have owned bmws that even come close to being considered average in reliability. VW data shows they're bad and I don't know a single person who would contest that.

Current BMWs have average reliablity. I consider that a resonable trade off for the overall experience of driving a BMW.
I consider that a good reason to lease BMWs. Fun to drive, but poorly built and engineered. Wouldn't own one out of warranty. My e90 is less than 5 months old and already the CA doesn't work right and the AC has stopped working more than once already (not that it works all that well anyway).
 

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resU deretsigeR
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blueguydotcom said:
California, sorry.

My experience with my own bmws and friends and family tells me I know many unlucky people as I don't have any friends or family who have owned bmws that even come close to being considered average in reliability.
After 26 months we've had two problems with our 325i. Both happened early on. The CD player failed. The passenger side mirror failed. No problems at all since then.

I don't know if our experience is typical, but we are satisfied with the car's reliability.

So far the NC MX-5 has 1 recall and 5 service bulletins. If you'd bought one early this year it would have gone in for repair two or three times.

No argument about VW other than to say we've been very very lucky with ours. :)

Andrew
 

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blueguydotcom said:
The mazda you will certainly be able to buy at invoice (or very close). All mazdas - including the mazdaspeed6 - end up selling for near or less than invoice.

As for better - the Mazda3 2.3 already handles far better than VW's GTI. Mix in a tighter suspension and LSD and the Mazdaspeed3 will obliterate a GTI in terms of handling. Remember the Mazdaspeed weighs less than 3k lbs...unlike the portly and tall GTI. Speed-wise the Mazdaspeed3 will have 280-ft-lbs and that LSD will help get the power down correctly in the corners. FWIW, Mazda's manuals are lightyears beyond anything from VW (and BMW) too.

A very real consideration for me is the quality of engineering and build. The build quality of Mazda's Japanese cars, in my experience, is vastly superior cars to any German automaker. No contest. My VWs and BMWs have always been headaches. Every Mazda i've owned or my family has owned runs like a top notch piece of engineering. It's subjective in the end. But I'd trust a Mazda to run and run well for years...not so with a BMW, VW, or MB.

Dollar for dollar the Mazda has it all over the GTI. Mix in the superior ergonomics, better handling (by far), better road feel, better engineering and longterm reliability...well the Mazdaspeed3 is the obvious choice for me.
I think you are way overstating the Mazda3 - I've driven it a few times, and it's not that great. The shifter is meh. I prefered the GTI by a lot. The MPS3 is another story of course.
 

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Not Wearing Pants
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Dawg90 said:
I think you are way overstating the Mazda3 - I've driven it a few times, and it's not that great. The shifter is meh. I prefered the GTI by a lot. The MPS3 is another story of course.
I think the press overstates the GTI by more than a lot. I personally think they're paid off. Sort of like the CTS reviews. My experience with the GTI couldn't differ any more from what I read or saw in reviews. Jeremy Clarkson called it one of the best cars around. After driving one hard I couldn't see buying one if the MSRP were 10k, let alone 26k.

To each his own. The Mazda3 felt just right to me. The ride, the roadfeel, the lightness of the vehicle all translated to fun. More fun in the twisties than my e90 ZSP, that's for sure.
 

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blueguydotcom said:
I think the press overstates the GTI by more than a lot. I personally think they're paid off. Sort of like the CTS reviews. My experience with the GTI couldn't differ any more from what I read or saw in reviews. Jeremy Clarkson called it one of the best cars around. After driving one hard I couldn't see buying one if the MSRP were 10k, let alone 26k.

To each his own. The Mazda3 felt just right to me. The ride, the roadfeel, the lightness of the vehicle all translated to fun. More fun in the twisties than my e90 ZSP, that's for sure.
Well the US mainstream press is a joke, and you never know with Clarkson, but reputable magazines like EVO also love it. Of course that's the Euro version, not the US one jacked up to SUV height.
 

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Button Pusher
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blueguydotcom said:
To each his own. The Mazda3 felt just right to me. The ride, the roadfeel, the lightness of the vehicle all translated to fun. More fun in the twisties than my e90 ZSP, that's for sure.
I owned a Mazda3 5-door hatch for two years (just sold it a couple months ago). It was a great car. It handled even better when the stock Goodyear RSA rubber got replaced with BF Goodrich g-Force tires. The only thing I didn't like about it was the weak A/C and the lack of torque, which obviously the turbo model will correct. The steering was perfect and the shifter cut through the gears like a hot knife through butter. Great little car. It also got 26-27mpg.
 

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resU deretsigeR
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blueguydotcom said:
The data shows the mazda protege and mx-5 were exceptionally reliable.
I'm not sure if that is the case for the 2006 NC Miata. I've been reading the forum at www.miata.net and a there are some problems.

This poor guy has one of the worst stories:

http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=187695

His car has been in the shop almost as much as out. At one point it ate the dipstick. He's been tryting to get Mazda to buy back the car and they are being very difficult about it.

His lawyer told him BMW NA was the best about buying back problem cars.

There also may be a problem with the airbag wiring where it goes under the seats. No recall yet but I'm seen seveal posts about it.

<sigh>
 
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