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Discussion Starter #1
Anyone has the MF for February?

I had resigned myself to not leasing again due to all the changes in the programs.

But here I am again, thinking about it.

I see the 2019 has a residual of 61% on the 540ixdrive at 30k miles.

I am planning a trip to Europe, and the thought was maybe this is the time to do an ED. I know the organ has changed for the worse but figured I should go through the motions of figuring out what's out there.

I'm a little rusty on the numbers from my absence here so any help would be appreciated.

Good to see several of the same folks still around helping in this forum. I'm assuming the calculation for ED pricing is still the same as stickied.



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I think its the same as January which was .00188 I think. Also, MSDs (if you are into those) are now .00005 discount per MSD, with a maximum of 7 for a total MSD discount maximum of .00035 (instead of .00049 in 2016).

Note... if your opinion is such that, 2016 was "bad" which I thought I saw you post recently, well "you aint seen nothin yet" (lol). 2016 was actually very very good ( I had 2 leases I did in jan of 2016). Comparatively speaking, right now is much different. Different enough to push some from the brand, and I think BMW is ok with that.

Instead of having 2 BMWs in my garage right now like I have had for over a decade, I have 1, and that one (my wifes new X3) is costing me more per month than the 2016 X5 it replaced, even though:

1. The MSRP on the X5 was 75.5k and the MSRP on the X3 was 67.9k
2. Relatively speaking, I got a better deal in relation to invoice prior to incentives on the X3 than I did in 2016 on the X5.. much better in fact.

Even with those two things, The X3 is costing me $75 a month more than the X5 did... so if you have a deal from 2016, in general, the same car would cost you about $120-150 more with the increased money factor, lack of corporate discount money factor discount, lack of stacking corporate discount at all with anything else, lack of incentives on some models, etc etc. Just warning you, since I remember your user name as being around here a while even though you havent posted / visited. The pricing on BMW is no different than the other german luxury brands now (merc, audi, porsche), unlike then, where BMW was surprisingly "affordable" comparatively speaking to those brands.

That has changed. I think you mentioned you were aware, but.. until you go through it, you wont see exactly how much.

One more thing. Euro Delivery is, on average, MORE expensive than stateside delivery, even with the euro delivery pricing. Almost no incentives apply, there is a money factor adder of .00003 (so I think base euro delivery money factor would be .00218 right now), to all euro delivery orders, etc. I have never done Euro delivery, but if you are considering it, make sure its for the experience.. not because you think it will be cheaper to get because you happen to be there.

Good luck.

P.S the forum has changed a bit since you last were here.. Many vets post a LOT less, and even basic things we used to see here, like pricing and ordering guides for the current model year that we used to get from Tim330 or Jon dont happen anymore. Since I stopped doing deal reviews, they happen much less frequently here, and there is less overall traffic in general at least visibly.. no idea what the actual metrics say.

There are still a few of us that lurk though.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Hey JJ, thanks for the info.

I was aware of the reduction in MSD benefit - but I am glad to hear that it looks like its back as a viable option, knowing it was removed for a while.

Well, I was referring to 2016 as bad in the context of prior deals, but I see in the current context is not too bad. I am actually trying to shake the rust off and put together some numbers for a possible ED and my preliminary results seem to indicate that it is not far worse than my 2016 deal; and that if i were to pick one up state-side, I could actually do better than my 2016.

If I am not mistaken, lease incentives and other incentives (USAA, loyalty, etc) are not applicable to ED deals; that alone is about $3-4k in incentives. Of course some of it is made up by the ED discount, and ED is beneficial in the sense that you get to use US MSRP for lease calculation.

If you dont mind I'll post another thread and maybe you can take a look? Its been several years since i built the calculator spreadsheet. I have been playing with it and i need to make some adjustments but assuming an "invoice" or close deal, I could be ok and it would make sense. I am already planning a trip to Europe and its somewhat coincidental that my lease is up end of the year. I will prob end up having to keep 2 car payments for a month or 2 to make the timing work, but I am also considering that ED is only going to get worse. I have been reading here and i might have to do my due dilligence and look at other brands ED, merc audi and porsche may have attractive deals. However, I have not driven anything but a BMW in over a decade so it should be enlightening to try out some competitors.

The other piece im missing is if a LAF (lease acquisition fee) still applies to ED deals. I see there is no training charge, but there is the delivery charge. What else am i missing?
I am considering adding the ultimate care package, I dont need to extend the time since it will be a 3yr lease, but the care pkg does add brakes and rotors. My current 5er lease needed new brakes, and that alone is more than the $600 cost of the package. Any idea if that care package should also be calculated as .92 for invoice? is it above or below the line (does it get capitalized)?

ps. Oh man, things have changed a lot. I have been MIA for a little over 2 years and its kind of a ghost town. Not so much here, but other subs. The ED forum is dead, the PCD forum is dead. I heard poli sci got shut down. Oooof, i am getting old or something cause I am not digging all these changes. Where did everyone migrate to?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Well... it goes to show you that I was real rusty. The spreadsheet calculator I had built, had the ED math built-in and I was double counting discounts.

After adjusting with the proper numbers, yeah that lease deal is REALLY bad. Basically similarly equipped 2019 5er would be $150/mo higher, assuming I could work out an invoice deal. That is significant.
 

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Well... it goes to show you that I was real rusty. The spreadsheet calculator I had built, had the ED math built-in and I was double counting discounts.

After adjusting with the proper numbers, yeah that lease deal is REALLY bad. Basically similarly equipped 2019 5er would be $150/mo higher, assuming I could work out an invoice deal. That is significant.
To answer your other question, if you want me to take a look at something, I would be happy to, but if I remember you know what you are doing :thumbup:

I just use the leasematic app myself, I dont have my own spreadsheet. I found that the leasematic app was accurate to the penny and quick for calculating it (and since it did not require an internet connection once on your phone, easy to bring out when at a dealer when, for some reason, the "numbers dont match".

The only discount that is applicable for Euro Delivery is the BMW CCA rebate (which happens after the fact).. at least thats how I understand it, but I have never done Euro Delivery myself.

Since the other rebates etc only are applicable to stateside delivery, that can be significant. Where Euro Delivery can be more beneficial is the larger dollar amount cars. I think @Ibiza had said the tipping point was somewhere around 85k or so if I remember, but you could just do the math to check.

The lease acq fee is not waived in any leasing that I am aware of (925) and is not negotiable. You could previously waive it for a higher money factor I think if you wanted to, but that ends up being more money overall so doesnt make any sense to do.

You might want to weigh the higher MF and lack of discounts on the Euro Delivery against the fun of doing the euro delivery and see if its worth it to you for the experience. You could also always just rent a car while you are there, and buy your car normally and pick it up normally here in the US (obviously).

You are going to be there anyway you say so the price of travel is already baked in, and if I was in your shoes I might do the euro delivery for the experience... but I would have to be ok with the upcharge for that.

In either case, you are likely looking at at least 100 more a month for the exact same car you have now, if you got a decent deal back then.

One thing to mention (and I am rambling attempting to help a long time member here, so sorry about that)

@Ibiza, who is as plugged in a regular member as there is here, thinks it would be a good idea for people who are looking at leasing BMWs to wait a bit till later in the year... even extending their leases a couple of months if necessary. I believe he thinks that incentives will improve but I dont want to put more words in his mouth than his recommendation that people wait, if they can.

My own personal opinion is that interest rates are likely going to go up, but if sales dont improve in some categories, there will be more incentives from BMW for certain models... but who knows if that will offset the increased interest rates.

Anyway, hope my rambling helps in some way.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks JJ!

I'll download the app and check it out, but what i like about the calculator spreadsheet is having the visibility into how the numbers actually work, and not just that they work.

Thanks for the info about the LAF, the pricing guides I have seen show the LAF for US delivery but not for ED delivery so I wasnt sure if it was waived or if it was omitted by mistake. I know the delivery fee is till there.

In any case, I dont think the $150 premium is worth it - for me it was a way to have a great experience with a brand I have kept for 15 years while I was going to be there. Yes I could rent a car, but thats not the point; i have plenty to see and do without renting a car, so this was just a bonus. I even looked at a lower trim and its till $50 more a month than a comparable US delivery.

Waiting is not an option, I actually have a lease until October, but have short window for travel. So travel has to be in July.

Thanks for the help, as always very informative. I'll still reach out to a dealer just to see if im missing anything but i get the feel I wont like the answers.

Just reading what other people are doing, and maybe its time to look at alternatives. I never really considered MB, but with all the changes to all the programs and the changes to the driving dynamics, MB might not be a terrible fit although I would have to really think about the styling. Also, the MB ED program seems to be miles ahead: 7% baseline discount from MSRP with documented instances of 12-14% on base and options, not just base. travel vouchers, free hotel, taxi reimbursement. A lot of this stuff is very small amounts of $, so its not the $, its about making the experience better. For some reason BMW wants to make the experience worse with very little in the way of benefit to themselves.

Anyway, I am ranting. We'll see what happens. Maybe I test drive the MB and i absolutely hate it and determine that BMW is still better.
 

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FWIW, were I considering ED, I'd PM or call one of the remaining CA's who respond on these threads. MJB or Greg P would both be reliable sources for what is or isn't possible and that might inform a decision one way or the other. Just my thoughts...
 

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Greg Poland still definitely does Euro Deliveries. There were at least 2-3 Euro Delivery cars awaiting pickup in his showroom when my wife and I picked up our X3 from him. I would definitely recommend contacting him to see, if @zoomvt is ok with either getting the car shipped to him when it gets stateside, or PDC. PCD is too far for us to do here in southern cali. Im not interested in that long a road trip home with the car.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
FWIW, were I considering ED, I'd PM or call one of the remaining CA's who respond on these threads. MJB or Greg P would both be reliable sources for what is or isn't possible and that might inform a decision one way or the other. Just my thoughts...
I just heard that Adrian no longer sells, unfortunately as I always had a good experience with him. But I'll reach out to Greg.
Greg Poland still definitely does Euro Deliveries. There were at least 2-3 Euro Delivery cars awaiting pickup in his showroom when my wife and I picked up our X3 from him. I would definitely recommend contacting him to see, if @zoomvt is ok with either getting the car shipped to him when it gets stateside, or PDC. PCD is too far for us to do here in southern cali. Im not interested in that long a road trip home with the car.
That's what I will do just for due diligence. I have been playing with the numbers and it doesn't look good, they have really decimated the lease program, MSDs, and ED. Really hard to understand what they are trying to do in the US. Now even the Volvo programs look good.

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Greg Poland still definitely does Euro Deliveries. There were at least 2-3 Euro Delivery cars awaiting pickup in his showroom when my wife and I picked up our X3 from him. I would definitely recommend contacting him to see, if @zoomvt is ok with either getting the car shipped to him when it gets stateside, or PDC. PCD is too far for us to do here in southern cali. Im not interested in that long a road trip home with the car.
Oh, and I thought they had opened a PDC in California near Palm springs, no?

If I end up doing ED I'll probably tack on PDC, it's always a good time. Unless they have destroyed that program as well.

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Greg Poland still definitely does Euro Deliveries. There were at least 2-3 Euro Delivery cars awaiting pickup in his showroom when my wife and I picked up our X3 from him. I would definitely recommend contacting him to see, if @zoomvt is ok with either getting the car shipped to him when it gets stateside, or PDC. PCD is too far for us to do here in southern cali. Im not interested in that long a road trip home with the car.
Oh, and I thought they had opened a PDC in California near Palm springs, no?

If I end up doing ED I'll probably tack on PDC, it's always a good time. Unless they have destroyed that program as well.

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They do not do any PCD in the California facility. Only in SC
 

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Oh, and I thought they had opened a PDC in California near Palm springs, no?

If I end up doing ED I'll probably tack on PDC, it's always a good time. Unless they have destroyed that program as well.

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Its not a delivery center, unfortunately. Its a performance center, on a track, where you can do M schools and such, but they dont do deliveries there. I have been there twice for 1 day driving school, and it was fantastic.

Each time I have been there, they say the number 1 question they are asked is why they dont do deliveries there. They dont own the track (its a private track, they are leasing space on and allowed to use by the private club).

I would be SHOCKED if they ever do PCD there. Would be the last thing southern california dealers should want. There is already enough competition amongst them (there are over 20 dealers within a 2.5 hours drive from my house for example). With dealerships back end money being partially judged on "loyalty" (which I think is dumb but whatever), the last thing so california dealers need is a way for local so cal people to pick up from a performance center, instead of at their dealership.
 
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