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This thread is like the "steam guys" bashing petrol cars.

Electric cars already are the future. Many mechanics will be replaced with IT techs, but not all. Tomorrow's hotrod tuners are today's computer science majors.

Electric cars are only going to get better, not worse, and they are still really in their child years. They already do near as makes no difference, everything better than petrol cars. In 10 years your Ferrari of today won't even be able to touch a mid level electric car, or truck.
 

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This thread is like the "steam guys" bashing petrol cars.

Electric cars already are the future. Many mechanics will be replaced with IT techs, but not all. Tomorrow's hotrod tuners are today's computer science majors.

Electric cars are only going to get better, not worse, and they are still really in their child years. They already do near as makes no difference, everything better than petrol cars. In 10 years your Ferrari of today won't even be able to touch a mid level electric car, or truck.
One mistake a lot of people make is to look at where things are rather than where they are going. People looked at solar back in 1980 and said it was too expensive and stopped there. Today prices are much lower and payback is often more like 6 to 8 years. People look at batteries today and think they will stay the same. In reality performance keeps improving and costs keep going down.

EV's keep getting better. Yeah, so do ICE cars but the improvements in EV's are more dramatic.
 

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When delivery trucks become electric then we will know that the price point has been hit.

If your looking at a 7000 dollar used car based on performance and cost of ownership , the electric aspect is here partially. My neighbor has bought 3 used toyota prius cars. Paid about 4 or 5 k and put on new tires and suspension parts.. they are not big or super comfy, but they are super reliable and get fantastic mileage. Two of them have made trips from milwaukee to california , my friends son is an engineer and got a job with tesla...

When a used fully electric car is at that cost factor used... the new selling price would be around 25 k. We are not there yet... the batteries are getting better, range is getting better. Recharge places in the midwest are very sketchy at best. But my friends doing new houses or updates are all making 240 volt high current drops in their garage plans.. so that will be the first stage. People will be comfortable with one fully electric car if they can charge it at home.
 

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BTW - I just realized something.

If I want to update the maps in my BMW - I have to pay what, $200 ?? I always thought people are crazy to pay something like that for a map update - but many do.
Well - I get the maps update on my Tesla navigation - not only for free but over the air (and I believe more often than once a year - but not sure about that part).
 

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BTW - I just realized something.

If I want to update the maps in my BMW - I have to pay what, $200 ?? I always thought people are crazy to pay something like that for a map update - but many do.
Well - I get the maps update on my Tesla navigation - not only for free but over the air (and I believe more often than once a year - but not sure about that part).
 

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BTW - I just realized something.

If I want to update the maps in my BMW - I have to pay what, $200 ?? I always thought people are crazy to pay something like that for a map update - but many do.
Well - I get the maps update on my Tesla navigation - not only for free but over the air (and I believe more often than once a year - but not sure about that part).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz8qS_LtBxg
 

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It's true that newer BMWs do have the ability to update the map data over the LTE connection. However there are quite a few disadvantages compared to Tesla's approach, such as needing to allow the Nav system to restart to reload the new map data.

The Tesla updates the nav/map data while the car is plugged in and charging and any update/actions happen with no user involvement and no perceived "down time".

Also, since Tesla seems to have an agreement with Google to get their map data the maps are far more accurate in my experience and are updated far more frequently.

Not much of a deal to those who rarely stray far from home but solid gold to someone who does a lot of longer distance travel to places they aren't familiar with.
 

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My Genesis required $100+ for each Nav update and you had to download it, put it on a USB and then take that to the car and do the installation. I do think this is changing. It reminds me of the change from limited texting plans to unlimited texting. Market forces are pushing a change. The old map model came out prior to the advent of smartphones. It is dying a slow death but it will die. Originally the dealerships were insisting that all updates be done through the dealership. However, they seem to have conceded in this area.
 

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It's true that newer BMWs do have the ability to update the map data over the LTE connection. However there are quite a few disadvantages compared to Tesla's approach, such as needing to allow the Nav system to restart to reload the new map data.

The Tesla updates the nav/map data while the car is plugged in and charging and any update/actions happen with no user involvement and no perceived "down time".

Also, since Tesla seems to have an agreement with Google to get their map data the maps are far more accurate in my experience and are updated far more frequently.

Not much of a deal to those who rarely stray far from home but solid gold to someone who does a lot of longer distance travel to places they aren't familiar with.
I think they are using OpenStreetMap through Mapbox and Valhalla. Not Google.
 

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https://www.prnewswire.com/il/news-releases/tesla-model-s-and-model-3-prove-vulnerable-to-gps-spoofing-attacks-as-autopilot-navigation-steers-car-off-road-research-from-regulus-cyber-shows-300871146.html

Tesla NoA hacked.

"the car reacted as if the exit was just 500 feet away-abruptly slowing down, activating the right turn signal, and making a sharp turn off the main road. The driver immediately took manual control but couldn't stop the car from leaving the road."
Sounds similar to how Iran captured a US stealth drone i.e. spoof the GPS signal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran–U.S._RQ-170_incident

If you are worried about GPS spoofing, then be careful of aircraft because they are also heavily reliant on GPS including for many instrument approaches.
 

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Sounds similar to how Iran captured a US stealth drone i.e. spoof the GPS signal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran–U.S._RQ-170_incident

If you are worried about GPS spoofing, then be careful of aircraft because they are also heavily reliant on GPS including for many instrument approaches.
That's a lot more difficult to do. The closer the vehicle is to the ground the easier it becomes to spoof it. And aircrafts navigate based on radars near the airport.
 

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That's a lot more difficult to do. The closer the vehicle is to the ground the easier it becomes to spoof it. And aircrafts navigate based on radars near the airport.
Actually a GPS approach has nothing to do with radar. If the area is under radar supervision then the pilot might receive a deviation warning. However, a 300’ vertical or lateral error could be deadly. There are a lot of airports where radar coverage doesn’t extend to the ground. You will be out of radar coverage in the final segment of the approach.

Spoofing GPS is difficult. I’m not worried about it. Jamming GPS is much easier but systems usually handle that gracefully by notifying the pilot or driver of loss of signal integrity.

I run into jamming once when flying up the east coast of Florida. The navy was conducting experiments. You realize how dependent you have begun when both units lose signal. Fortunately ATC just gave me a heading till I exited the test area.

Tesla is actually pushing a heavily vision based system which should eventually be more hardened to spoofing. Key word here is eventually. Waymo and Cadillac depend much more on precision mapping.
 

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I just test drive the model-X. My “seat-of-my-pants meter” tells me it is just as punchy as my M4 was, if not moreso.

On-ramp pickup is instantaneous. If this is any metric of how the Model-Y will be, there’s not a lot keeping me from kicking this ‘18 X3 to the curb.
 

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I just test drive the model-X. My “seat-of-my-pants meter” tells me it is just as punchy as my M4 was, if not moreso.

On-ramp pickup is instantaneous. If this is any metric of how the Model-Y will be, there’s not a lot keeping me from kicking this ‘18 X3 to the curb.
Which version of the Model X did you drive?
 

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Which version of the Model X did you drive?


it didn’t have anything above “sport” in the driving mode options.

The seats were more comfortable than my X3 and CX-5 (current models)

That Tablet screen......massive!
 

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it didn’t have anything above “sport” in the driving mode options.

The seats were more comfortable than my X3 and CX-5 (current models)

That Tablet screen......massive!
If it didn't have Insane or Ludicrous modes, then it should be a standard or long range model that does 0-60 in either 4.6 or 4.4 seconds.
 

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If it didn't have Insane or Ludicrous modes, then it should be a standard or long range model that does 0-60 in either 4.6 or 4.4 seconds.


It was long range. I recall hearing that. I was a bit caught up in the moment when I was getting situated in the vehicle for the test drive. While the autonomous feature was cool, until it “gets the update” for stop and go at lights, it’s really just a novelty.

Interesting thing the associate told me was that the driving modes in the “basic” X don’t affect dynamics, just steering feedback (tightness)?

The immediate pull when punching the gas is as exhilarating as it was in my M4
 
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