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Discussion Starter #3,841
Go to bmwusa.com, select Build your own, then select M, and it shows 11 different M models. Now you can try to make up your own definitions, but I'll go with what BMW says. Also, you're lumping coupes and convertibles together which I don't think makes much sense since they definitely have different markets they appeal to. Tesla has nothing to compete with in the convertible market today.

Your 135,829 number is a worldwide number; we were discussing U.S. sales numbers. BMW has a significant advantage in the number of markets where BMW cars are sold compared to Tesla.
The spinning can go either way, and obviously done by both sides, e.g. while Tesla has no coupe/vert to compete with BMW, at the same time, BMW has no M/M performance sedan that competes with Tesla Model 3, right?

So in 2020, BMW will have new M3 sedan to compete with Tesla Model 3 Performance, and Tesla will have Model Y(high spec ones) to compete with X3M/X4M(right?)

As far as bmwusa.com's layout, at one point the categories were 2-series, 3-series, ...., and then the non-M and M and M performance under 3-series(e.g.) as variants of the series(which are the models per my interpretation).

The latest layout has been shock and awe to throw the number of configurations at customers. One can surely selectively interpret anyway one wants. :p

And as far as spinning of 135829 versus 44442 numbers, at least BMW provides some geographical breakdowns, while Tesla is adamant to spin worldwide numbers, likely to de-emphasize their small number of market segments right now.
 

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Wow, this is still happening


 

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Swedish Murder Machine
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Discussion Starter #3,848
No it can't.

Despite your bizarre obsession with hybrids and hydrogen cars very few people interested in a full BEV would settle for a hybrid or weirdo mobile that runs on hydrogen.
The obsession(and spinning?) is all relative. :p

Nonetheless manufacturers like to shoot themselves, e.g. BMW G20 hybrid is $3500+ more expensive than non-hybrid, maybe BMWNA will have extra incentive for that, or else it will create a price barrier.
 

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This RAV4 hybrid ([email protected]$30k) can be a worthy competitor to Model Y(and X3 PHEV too).

It seems to me Tesla will run into more competition with Toyota than with the German permium brands.

https://www.kbb.com/articles/car-news/2021-toyota-rav4-plug-in/
+1
Ironically, the second generation RAV4 EV (see photo below) sourced its AC induction motor and battery pack from Tesla.

RAV4 PHEV will be well received in the marketplace. It wouldn't be surprising if within a year from introduction, RAV4 PHEV outsells the Prius Prime. Prius Prime is currently the best selling plug-in vehicle in the U.S. from a real automaker. The regular non plug-in RAV4 Hybrid is currently the best selling hybrid vehicle in the U.S. and outsold the regular Prius last year.

 

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Discussion Starter #3,850
+1
Ironically, the second generation RAV4 EV (see photo below) sourced its AC induction motor and battery pack from Tesla.

I do agree with you that the RAV4 PHEV will be well received in the marketplace. It wouldn't be surprising if within a year from introduction, RAV4 PHEV outsells the Prius Prime. Prius Prime is currently the best selling plug-in vehicle in the U.S. from a real automaker.
Yes 2nd gen RAV4 EV(2012-2014) was limited production, like less than 3000 units?

This latest RAV4 PHEV is more practical than Prius Prime, and price(projected) is also good.

If my F30 TC blows up and BMWNA refuses to fix, then this RAV4 PHEV will be a good candidate to consider.
 

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Swedish Murder Machine
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+1
Ironically, the second generation RAV4 EV (see photo below) sourced its AC induction motor and battery pack from Tesla.

RAV4 PHEV will be well received in the marketplace. It wouldn't be surprising if within a year from introduction, RAV4 PHEV outsells the Prius Prime. Prius Prime is currently the best selling plug-in vehicle in the U.S. from a real automaker. The regular non plug-in RAV4 Hybrid is currently the best selling hybrid vehicle in the U.S. and outsold the regular Prius last year.
So Toyota is getting their AC motor and battery from Tesla but Tesla is not a "real" automaker?

OK champ.

Make sure you go read Tesla Q4 earnings results when you want to puff your chest out about how Toyota is doing. (spoiler alert, Tesla handily beat earnings and Toyota missed earnings estimates).
 

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So Toyota is getting their AC motor and battery from Tesla but Tesla is not a "real" automaker?

OK champ.

Make sure you go read Tesla Q4 earnings results when you want to puff your chest out about how Toyota is doing. (spoiler alert, Tesla handily beat earnings and Toyota missed earnings estimates).
Toyota haven't reported their earnings yet.
 

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When you produce hundreds of thousands of cars a year, you're about as real an automaker as it gets.
My view is that Tesla produces hundreds of thousands of tech toys that its customers crave for, and that is a great receipt for TSLA momentum. :p
 

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My view is that Tesla produces hundreds of thousands of tech toys that its customers crave for, and that is a great receipt for TSLA momentum. :p
I bought my Model 3 for transportation from place to place, and for an enjoyable driving experience. I think that is why most people have bought Teslas, not because they are "tech toys". While Teslas certainly have plenty of tech toys in them, so do most cars today. That said, I will agree that Teslas have more tech toys than most and that some are quite unique compared to all other car manufacturers offerings. :)
 

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So Toyota is getting their AC motor and battery from Tesla
No. RAV4 EV production ended in 2014, as did Toyota's use of Tesla as a supplier.
 

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Toyota haven't reported their earnings yet.
Correct. TMC FY2020 3Q financial results will be released February 6.
 
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