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Yeah, that subframe cracking is horrible. Usually seen on cars of 10+ years old, rather 15.

Meanwhile Tesla doesn't have issues with delivering cracked new cars

https://www.thedrive.com/tech/9093/brand-new-tesla-model-s-delivered-with-cracked-a-pillar

But weldings don't hold for long either

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-x-weld-seam-cracking.100798/

#safestcar
Oh please, every car company has occasional problems where a few cars aren't made properly, which is what you gave examples of with Tesla. It's rare for it to be a design problem and for the problem to be so bad that they have to issue a recall on many thousands of cars as BMW had to do with e36s and e46s. I think it's safe to say that BMW has had far more structural unibody problems than Tesla.

P.S. I initially received the recall notice on my 330i when it was 7 years old.
 

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Oh please, every car company has occasional problems where a few cars aren't made properly, which is what you gave examples of with Tesla. It's rare for it to be a design problem and for the problem to be so bad that they have to issue a recall on many thousands of cars as BMW had to do with e36s and e46s. I think it's safe to say that BMW has had far more structural unibody problems than Tesla.

P.S. I initially received the recall notice on my 330i when it was 7 years old.
There is hardly any fester complaints about cracked frame and subpar welds fresh from BMW factories though.

The E46 rear subframe issues seem to be undiagnosed worn rear subframe bushings with miles/age/spirited driving that eventually lead to floorboard taking loads that are out-of-spec.

http://speed.academy/bmw-e46-cracked-subframe-fix/

That's very different from cracks on sheet metal and welds right off the Tesla factory with no wear and tear.

And most Model 3's are still relatively new. With the kind of Model 3 unibody issues mentioned by Munro, it is yet to be seen if any real issue will materialize with miles and age.
 

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There is hardly any fester complaints about cracked frame and subpar welds fresh from BMW factories though.
And there's "hardly any" complaints about cracked frames or defective welds fresh from Tesla factories either. If you want to see complaints about cracked frames or defective welds fresh from the factory, check out 2018-2019 Jeep Wranglers.

The E46 rear subframe issues seem to be undiagnosed worn rear subframe bushings with miles/age/spirited driving that eventually lead to floorboard taking loads that are out-of-spec.

http://speed.academy/bmw-e46-cracked-subframe-fix/
Um, your link says the following, in the first paragraph.
But the rear subframe issue is the real Achilles heel of the E46. And it has nothing to do with how modified the car is. I've seen it on unmodified cars, early models, late models, low mileage, and high mileage. Every E46 I've seen has this problem. And the s***ty thing is to fully check a car, you have to remove everything in the rear, so you might as well repair it while you have the subframe and all out. Which means if your car hasn't had this done, you will be doing it.
Also, if it were just due to worn bushings or spirited driving, BMW wouldn't have had to issue a recall.

That's very different from cracks on sheet metal and welds right off the Tesla factory with no wear and tear.

And most Model 3's are still relatively new. With the kind of Model 3 unibody issues mentioned by Munro, it is yet to be seen if any real issue will materialize with miles and age.
If anything, Munro was saying that the rear unibody on the Model 3 was overbuilt, so I think it's quite unlikely that Model 3s will have the problems with the rear unibody that the E46s have suffered.
 

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Um, your link says the following, in the first paragraph.
Also, if it were just due to worn bushings or spirited driving, BMW wouldn't have had to issue a recall.
That guy doesn't sound credible. Right after that sentence he says every E46 he saw had this issue. Yeah. Maybe mine too which is well past 200k mi, must be an invisible issue then. Since I don't see any cracks.
 

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That guy doesn't sound credible. Right after that sentence he says every E46 he saw had this issue. Yeah. Maybe mine too which is well past 200k mi, must be an invisible issue then. Since I don't see any cracks.
It was namelessman's link. I tend to question it as well since I have 150k on my car and haven't noticed any issues. That said, if it's small cracks, it probably wouldn't be noticeable from a driving perspective, and as the guy said, to find those small cracks would require removing the rear subframe, a not trivial job.

In any case, the rear unibody cracking on E46s is common enough that I think it is apparent that BMW under designed it. The reality is that most cars have some design flaws, hopefully not as difficult or expensive to fix as the E46 unibody.
 

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And there's "hardly any" complaints about cracked frames or defective welds fresh from Tesla factories either. If you want to see complaints about cracked frames or defective welds fresh from the factory, check out 2018-2019 Jeep Wranglers.
acoste's links from post#4160 show complaints of visible weld and cracked frames on pretty new Tesla.

In contrast, and "hardly any" similar fester complaints on BMWs from BMW factory, as in "almost none".

If there are such complaints please share the links, it would be of interest to read about those.
 

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It was namelessman's link. I tend to question it as well since I have 150k on my car and haven't noticed any issues. That said, if it's small cracks, it probably wouldn't be noticeable from a driving perspective, and as the guy said, to find those small cracks would require removing the rear subframe, a not trivial job.

In any case, the rear unibody cracking on E46s is common enough that I think it is apparent that BMW under designed it. The reality is that most cars have some design flaws, hopefully not as difficult or expensive to fix as the E46 unibody.
Once again the honest BMW owners that keep BMW honest, maybe the Tesla owners should do the same and keep Tesla honest. :p

The kinds of visible frame/weld/unibody design flaws of Tesla are not cheap to fix, and as Munro showed, Tesla did eventually fix them, in Model Y!

The one advantage of Model 3 is its 1000-pound frame brace aka battery pack, maybe that is enough to compensate for any other frame/unibody related issues. :D
 

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That guy doesn't sound credible. Right after that sentence he says every E46 he saw had this issue. Yeah. Maybe mine too which is well past 200k mi, must be an invisible issue then. Since I don't see any cracks.
Were your E46 rear subframe bushings replaced, or are they still factory parts?
 

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acoste's links from post#4160 show complaints of visible weld and cracked frames on pretty new Tesla.
2 links. Where are the hundreds or thousands of complaints? Where is the recall?
In contrast, and "hardly any" similar fester complaints on BMWs from BMW factory, as in "almost none".

If there are such complaints please share the links, it would be of interest to read about those.
Oh please, get real. There was a frickin' recall for the E46 unibody. Do you think that manufacturers like BMW issue recalls for just a few complaints? Stop being so ridiculous. :rolleyes:
 

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Once again the honest BMW owners that keep BMW honest, maybe the Tesla owners should do the same and keep Tesla honest. :p

The kinds of visible frame/weld/unibody design flaws of Tesla are not cheap to fix, and as Munro showed, Tesla did eventually fix them, in Model Y!

The one advantage of Model 3 is its 1000-pound frame brace aka battery pack, maybe that is enough to compensate for any other frame/unibody related issues. :D
Munro didn't show any "frame/weld/unibody design flaws" that would require repair. There was no fix required. He just pointed out what was poor from a cost and manufacturing efficiency standpoint.

Do you really understand as little about design and manufacturing as your posts here would seem to indicate? Do you not understand what a manufacturing engineer and consultant like Sandy Munro does? :confused:
 

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Were your E46 rear subframe bushings replaced, or are they still factory parts?
Still factory bushings.

This cracking issue happens to manuals and M3s. Rare to see them on automatics as these latter build up the torque smoother.
 

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2 links. Where are the hundreds or thousands of complaints? Where is the recall?

Oh please, get real. There was a frickin' recall for the E46 unibody. Do you think that manufacturers like BMW issue recalls for just a few complaints? Stop being so ridiculous. :rolleyes:
Tesla got away with many things without recalls. Battery issue is a clear example of that. Model 3 missing/loose suspension bolts. I guess this latter stayed under the radar because there aren't many independent Tesla repair shops.
 

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2 links. Where are the hundreds or thousands of complaints? Where is the recall?

Oh please, get real. There was a frickin' recall for the E46 unibody. Do you think that manufacturers like BMW issue recalls for just a few complaints? Stop being so ridiculous. :rolleyes:
Your expertise to mix two different statements together into one demonstrates unparalleled finesse and deceit.:rolleyes:

Again, the lack of recall of frame cracks on brand new Tesla, should not be of comfort to any Tesla owner.

On the other hand, complaint of frame cracks on brand new BMW's is unheard of on BF. If there is any(BF or others) please forward the link.
 

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Munro didn't show any "frame/weld/unibody design flaws" that would require repair. There was no fix required. He just pointed out what was poor from a cost and manufacturing efficiency standpoint.

Do you really understand as little about design and manufacturing as your posts here would seem to indicate? Do you not understand what a manufacturing engineer and consultant like Sandy Munro does? :confused:
It is convenient to categorize issues uncovered by Munro as just "poor from a cost and manufacturing efficiency standpoint", but let's assume that is the case.

Combined those alleged cost and manufacturing issues with cracked frames on brand new Tesla fresh from factory creates a new class of problems that honest Tesla owners should ponder on.
 

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Still factory bushings.

This cracking issue happens to manuals and M3s. Rare to see them on automatics as these latter build up the torque smoother.
The link of post#4162 seems to be a track rat bunch that may encounter E46 MT's/M3's that are driven far and hard, non-spirited driving probably does not stress out rear sub-frame bushing and floorboards as much. :)

BTW E39 MT's/M5's have engine mount issues(e.g. V8) that show up more on hard-driven cars than hardly pushed ones.
 

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Yeah, that subframe cracking is horrible. Usually seen on cars of 10+ years old, rather 15.

Meanwhile Tesla doesn't have issues with delivering cracked new cars

https://www.thedrive.com/tech/9093/brand-new-tesla-model-s-delivered-with-cracked-a-pillar

But weldings don't hold for long either

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-x-weld-seam-cracking.100798/

#safestcar
Tesla stood behind the Model S with the cracked A pillar and is replacing the car.

As for your statement that "weldings don't hold for long either", if you had bothered to read through the thread, you would have found that is an incorrect statement. The crack was in a seam filler, not a weld. It was a cosmetic issue, not structural.
 

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Your expertise to mix two different statements together into one demonstrates unparalleled finesse and deceit.:rolleyes:

Again, the lack of recall of frame cracks on brand new Tesla, should not be of comfort to any Tesla owner.

On the other hand, complaint of frame cracks on brand new BMW's is unheard of on BF. If there is any(BF or others) please forward the link.
I'm really not particularly concerned with the occasional assembly or construction problem on a vehicle. This happens with every vehicle out there, and is covered by either a warranty or lemon law. Having a design flaw where the problem occurs far down the road and is not covered by warranties or lemon laws is actually a more heinous problem as far as I'm concerned. Therefore, I see the E46 unibody cracking as a significantly worse problem than the one instance that has been posted here of Tesla frame cracks.
 

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It is convenient to categorize issues uncovered by Munro as just "poor from a cost and manufacturing efficiency standpoint", but let's assume that is the case.

Combined those alleged cost and manufacturing issues with cracked frames on brand new Tesla fresh from factory creates a new class of problems that honest Tesla owners should ponder on.
One cracked frame on the over half a million cars Tesla has produced over the last 10 years simply doesn't warrant your hysteria. :)
 

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I'm really not particularly concerned with the occasional assembly or construction problem on a vehicle. This happens with every vehicle out there, and is covered by either a warranty or lemon law. Having a design flaw where the problem occurs far down the road and is not covered by warranties or lemon laws is actually a more heinous problem as far as I'm concerned. Therefore, I see the E46 unibody cracking as a significantly worse problem than the one instance that has been posted here of Tesla frame cracks.
Honest owners usually do not take these issues lightly, but there seems to be Tesla owners that think otherwise.

At least inquisitive minds may search for clues of the failure models, maybe the robot just happened to sneeze occasionally? :D

Also, to use your logic, the E46 unibody issue is A-OK, since it is covered by recall/class action. :p

That is an example that manufacturer skipping reliability fresh out of factory and/or past 100-150k miles and beyond will pay.
 

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One cracked frame on the over half a million cars Tesla has produced over the last 10 years simply doesn't warrant your hysteria. :)
There is agreement of at least one.

Inquisitive minds may ponder how many are unreported, esp. voicing any concern will bring hysteria from Tesla cult members? :) :dunno:
 
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