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nate328Ci said:
First production year cars have bugs :thumbdwn:
Okay Nate. I know you like the E65. But come on with the cheerleading. I mean, this story describes failures that are totally unacceptable, first year or not.

All of your posts will carry more weight if you showed the least bit of objectivity. I mean, you're more shameless in your blind support of anything and everything BMW does than a paid hack would be. It makes no sense. Are you a shareholder? A Quandt?

At least admit a gross failure when there is one.
 

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TD said:


Okay Nate. I know you like the E65. But come on with the cheerleading. I mean, this story describes failures that are totally unacceptable, first year or not.

All of your posts will carry more weight if you showed the least bit of objectivity. I mean, you're more shameless in your blind support of anything and everything BMW does than a paid hack would be. It makes no sense. Are you a shareholder? A Quandt?

At least admit a gross failure when there is one.
The car has lots of bugs, that is a quality problem, not one with the design of the car. I didn't say the failures are acceptable, but I expect problems. :thumbdwn:

Maybe I actually like the car and new BMWs :dunno:
 

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development engineers

Well, I knew I was one. We all are test drivers for AG, since we are the most outspoken ones.

But I wonder why AG sometimes does not listen to us. If they had gotten a bunch of us together for our opinion about the steering feel, the fiasco of the 2001 model year would not have happened.

It does seem though that the E65 was rushed just to compete with the S series. If that spokeperson at AG is correct in saying that the E65 first model year problems are normal, then I'll shy away from any future first model year Bimmers.
 

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nate328Ci said:
First production year cars have bugs :thumbdwn:
Too much electronics, Nate, too much electronics to control the mechanics. I don't think that there's any other passenger car which is loaded with more electronics than the E65. From the moment you unlock the car, you surrender yourself to the electronics.

And I think, this is the reason why BMW is having hard times to track down the problems.
 

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Re: development engineers

DaveN323i said:


But I wonder why AG sometimes does not listen to us. If they had gotten a bunch of us together for our opinion about the steering feel, the fiasco of the 2001 model year would not have happened.

Too bad the 2001 steering was a result of "listening" to customer complaints about heavy low speed steering...
 

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DougDogs said:


Yeah, but, should we read anything into the fact that this was written by a DETRIOT reporter??? Can you find any un-biased opinion in detriot, about any european car???

I think NOT:thumbdwn:
Aren't those editors from Car&Driver Detroit reporters? They seem to give BMWs good reviews. They are based in Michigan right? :tsk:
 

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Majority of the problems that are mentioned are some of the very same problems that my local BMW Center has seen. One of the techs there has been quoted saying " You never buy the 1st year and maybe not the 2nd."
 

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After reading that article all I can think is to 'NEVER let myself become pompass'

The word 'unacceptable' irks me :mad:

I have this crazy problem called accepting a problem and having it fixed.

Cars especailly first year models have problems whether they are Hyundai's or Rolls Royces, it doesn't matter how much or little it costs . . . this is life !!
 

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Overall car quality has come to a point where 'first year problems' are getting pretty close to being unacceptable, especially ones that occur pretty regularly (as opposed to freak isloated problems that any manufactured product has). The last 4 cars my family has had were all first-year Mitsubishis (not exactly known for top quality) and I don't think we were plagued by too many more problems than if they were 2 years in.

The now-well-known E65 EML problem, for example, should have been exorcised AGES ago. BMW's been using EML (drive by wire) since the E31, I think, and as much as some of us hate it, I think its pretty reilable these days.
 

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Re: Re: Re: development engineers

DaveN323i said:


I know, but who are those customers that they are listening? Certainly not us.
Not to knock the fairer sex, but they were 'listening' to females complaints about the previous 'heavy' steering, and how difficult it was to maneuver in the mall parking lots. That comment was accepted as a universal truth, so they changed it based on that limited perspective.

Funny (in a very sad kind of way), but true!
 

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The story is based on two people's problems. That hardly represents every E65 built. Judging by the attitude of the writer he doesn't like BMW anyway!:tsk:
 

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Re: Re: Re: Re: development engineers

IndyMike said:

Not to knock the fairer sex, but they were 'listening' to females complaints about the previous 'heavy' steering, and how difficult it was to maneuver in the mall parking lots. That comment was accepted as a universal truth, so they changed it based on that limited perspective.

Funny (in a very sad kind of way), but true!
I think the general public is used to, and expects overboosted steering. (Ever drive an Accord or Camry?) And if increasing boost is going to make the 3er appeal to the wider carbuying public that BMW wants to persue, from a business perspective, increasing boost makes perfect sense.

I like the idea that someone had on .org ages ago, suggesting that steering boost be an option that goes with SP, where you get a less-boosted rack along with the sport steering wheel.
 

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: development engineers

Kaz said:


I like the idea that someone had on .org ages ago, suggesting that steering boost be an option that goes with SP, where you get a less-boosted rack along with the sport steering wheel.
That was me :) Anyway, the whole thing is moot now. I believe, however, that AG would have gotten a lot less criticism from us if the E65 was a nice looking design. You forgive a lot if the design is good looking (witness the old Jaguar E-types). That is part of being human, I guess.
 

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After this quote I stopped reading that article: "... Minor problems can all happen with cars, but not with luxury cars." :tsk:

I've seen 100+K computers fail right out of the box. It's a machine! Cars are machines too! Software has bugs. Machines have bugs. Period.
 
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