[spbtechnical]

Hi All,

Recently had a full service at the BMW stealer.
My 100k mile X5 was running sweet before I took it in.

It also needed an MoT test so got the dealer to do this at the same time. It failed on a cut tyre and needed all four new ones even though there was 6mm of tread on the other 3 tyres to keep the rolling radius the same....grrrrr

It had non run flat Avons before and has had new non run flat Nexens now.

Now it jerks under load or going uphill....took it back to the dealer and now they say it needs a new transfer box due to me having non star rated tyres !!! Are these transfer boxes made of cheese ????

I'm pretty cheesed off to be honest as the car was fine before I put it in for service.

Any suggestions would be very welcome

Thanks
Steve

 

[Doug Huffman]

A different and trustworthy dealer.

 

[HotGrbg]

Ever since 🙄

 

[rav31]

Hi All,

Recently had a full service at the BMW stealer.
My 100k mile X5 was running sweet before I took it in.

It also needed an MoT test so got the dealer to do this at the same time. It failed on a cut tyre and needed all four new ones even though there was 6mm of tread on the other 3 tyres to keep the rolling radius the same....grrrrr

It had non run flat Avons before and has had new non run flat Nexens now.

Now it jerks under load or going uphill....took it back to the dealer and now they say it needs a new transfer box due to me having non star rated tyres !!! Are these transfer boxes made of cheese ????

I'm pretty cheesed off to be honest as the car was fine before I put it in for service.

Any suggestions would be very welcome

Thanks
Steve

Have you had the transferase fluid changed? Are your wheels OEM? Are they the same size or offsets front to rear? If you have offsets, some tires are not the same dia with the factory specified sizes. I believe BMW says they need to be withing 1/8" to 1/4" of each other, front to rear.

 

[spbtechnical]

Have you had the transferase fluid changed? Are your wheels OEM? Are they the same size or offsets front to rear? If you have offsets, some tires are not the same dia with the factory specified sizes. I believe BMW says they need to be withing 1/8" to 1/4" of each other, front to rear.

Hi,

Thanks for your reply....

The wheels are 19"OEM but offset, 285/45/19 on the back and 255/50/19 on the front as per BMW spec. I've checked the rolling circumference using string and a ruler and all four tyres are virtually identical.
There was no problem before I had the previous tyres changed so I'm stumped ??
I can't see how I suddenly have a transfer case issue after new tyres ??

I think I will go down the route of new transfer case fluid and a reset ....that seems to have worked with others....All the dealer wants to do is sell me a new transfer box !!.....(Ive been down that route before with a BMW 1 series and was quoted £8k for a new turbo, dpf unit and egr valve when all it needed was a crankcase breather for £40...ran it for another 70k miles after that !!)

Cheers
Steve

 

[rav31]

Hi,

Thanks for your reply....

The wheels are 19"OEM but offset, 285/45/19 on the back and 255/50/19 on the front as per BMW spec. I've checked the rolling circumference using string and a ruler and all four tyres are virtually identical.
There was no problem before I had the previous tyres changed so I'm stumped ??
I can't see how I suddenly have a transfer case issue after new tyres ??

I think I will go down the route of new transfer case fluid and a reset ....that seems to have worked with others....All the dealer wants to do is sell me a new transfer box !!.....(Ive been down that route before with a BMW 1 series and was quoted £8k for a new turbo, dpf unit and egr valve when all it needed was a crankcase breather for £40...ran it for another 70k miles after that !!)

Cheers
Steve

I did some searching at Nexen Tires & can NOT find any model tire that they supply in the 285/45-19 size you mentioned above. Yes, these are the "optional" tires sizes for the 19" dia offsets per the BMW owners manual. So, I'll take a wild guess that they are NOT the same size outside dia (circumference) front & rear and this is your problem. I can not get Discount tire Direct or Tire Rack to list a Nexen tire for the F15 with the offset sizes you mentioned. Change to a different brand tire that DOES

I can't get Nexen to show any 285-45X19 tire size. Double check your rear tires to verify they are the 285-45x19's

FYI, the F15 X5 transfer case does not require a "reset" after fluid change.

 

[spbtechnical]

I did some searching at Nexen Tires & can NOT find any model tire that they supply in the 285/45-19 size you mentioned above. Yes, these are the "optional" tires sizes for the 19" dia offsets per the BMW owners manual. So, I'll take a wild guess that they are NOT the same size outside dia (circumference) front & rear and this is your problem. I can not get Discount tire Direct or Tire Rack to list a Nexen tire for the F15 with the offset sizes you mentioned. Change to a different brand tire that DOES

I can't get Nexen to show any 285-45X19 tire size. Double check your rear tires to verify they are the 285-45x19's

FYI, the F15 X5 transfer case does not require a "reset" after fluid change.

Hi again

It may be a different market here in the UK, but I can definitely state that I have Nexen 285/45/19 on the rear and 255/50/19 on the front. Also my piece of string didn't lie...lol
I may just change the transfer fluid and see what happens....failing that I may bite the bullet and refurbish the TC

 

[ard]

Its not he tire sizes...

It is also MOST DEFINITELY NOT the lack of 'Star Rating'.... what idiots.

 

[spbtechnical]

Its not he tire sizes...
View attachment 1047456

It is also MOST DEFINITELY NOT the lack of 'Star Rating'.... what idiots.

Hi,

Thanks for those calculations....really helpful to allow me to cross the tyre issues out of the equation....., those dealers really annoy me with their patronising suggestions and reasoning.
Will change the TC fluid and see what happens unless anyone else has any suggestions or advice.

Thanks
Steve

 

[spbtechnical]

Hi All

Transfer case fluid changed......definitely smoother and not as harsh, but transfer box still jerking under load even if it feels like its been dampened by the new oil.
It honestly feels like maybe a stretched chain is jumping a tooth on the sprocket....is this a possibility ?
Also do transfer boxes gradually deteriorate or can they let go dramatically ?

Any advice greatly received.

Cheers
Steve

 

[HotGrbg]

Transfer cases have clutches and wear just like a manual stick shift clutch. Mismatched/cheap/fubar tires will accelerate the wear. Combine this with transfer cases that nobody services until there’s a problem is a recipe for disaster. The nature of a transfer case is that sometimes you don’t notice a problem until it’s either welded or slipping. Have you considered the “stealer” was correct and that you need a transfer case from your avons and nexens? Sounds like maybe they were spot on from your additional description.

 

[spbtechnical]

Hi,
Thanks for your reply.

The Nexens are TUV approved and made in S Korea and Avons made in Germany to the same quality, I researched the quality and wouldn't say they were cheap tyres or poor quality. Both sets also had identical (or within 1pc) rolling circumferences so I can't see how the transfer box has been damaged from 'wind up' by incorrect tyres.

I agree that the oils in both the transfer case and ZF gearbox should be changed regularly and not 'sealed for life' as BMW recommend....in fact ZF recommend gearbox transmission oil and filter base is changed at 80k miles.

I just feel the transfer box is a very weak link in the transmission and I expected a longer life than 100k.
I've decided to have it rebuilt at a fraction of the cost of a new replacement from the dealer and will be getting the main gearbox and diff oils changed too.

Hopefully will run her for another 100k

Cheers
Steve

 

[HotGrbg]

The Nexens are TUV approved and made in S Korea and Avons made in Germany to the same quality, I researched the quality and wouldn't say they were cheap tyres or poor quality. Both sets also had identical (or within 1pc) rolling circumferences so I can't see how the transfer box has been damaged from 'wind up

Did you measure these tires? How exactly? I’ll assume they didn’t have the BMW star which is an additional level of quality control in dealing with tire manufacturing tolerances. Do you know what the maximum difference in circumference is?

 

[OnlyGerman]

At 100k, it is probably just toast from mileage - even given you using correct sizes. These seem to be sensitive boxes.

Do you have to use the star tire, or as long as you are using correct tire specs from factory, you are OK?

 

[spbtechnical]

Did you measure these tires? How exactly? I’ll assume they didn’t have the BMW star which is an additional level of quality control in dealing with tire manufacturing tolerances. Do you know what the maximum difference in circumference is?

Hi,

Tyre circumference calculations were carried out in a similar way as below and never had more than 1.5 pc difference with all the various sets of tyres over the years.

Comparing this to a Toyota Landcruiser Amazon that I ran for 420k miles which had no engine issues, no gearbox or transmission issues and no axle issues. It ran faultlessly in leather cossetted comfort on a combination of all terrain tyres, mud tyres, summer tyres (not at the same time of course) without so much of a hiccup.
Makes the X5 transfer box seem very flimsy after 100k ..like its made from a combination of cheese and balsa wood : )

Unfortunately I'll be choosing a different marque next time.
Shame as its a lovely motor

Cheers
Steve

 

[HotGrbg]

Hi,

Tyre circumference calculations were carried out in a similar way as below and never had more than 1.5 pc difference

I honestly get it. I’m not trying to bust your balls just to share information.
you can’t rely on those tire calculators.
All tires have manufacturing tolerances. While most tire manufacturers have some form of quality control I assume the big names have a better QC program or stipulations but that’s speculation. I do know that BMW star rated tires add an additional level of scrutiny to the manufacturers to meet a certain tolerance.
Now if you physically measure all 4 tires circumference you will get a variation and it doesn’t matter what brand or how many stars are on them. They key is the amount of acceptable differences. BMW has stated that star rated are guaranteed to be within 1/4 inch or roughly 6.35mm before you really start running into issues quickly.

 

[spbtechnical]

I honestly get it. I’m not trying to bust your balls just to share information.
you can’t rely on those tire calculators.
All tires have manufacturing tolerances. While most tire manufacturers have some form of quality control I assume the big names have a better QC program or stipulations but that’s speculation. I do know that BMW star rated tires add an additional level of scrutiny to the manufacturers to meet a certain tolerance.
Now if you physically measure all 4 tires circumference you will get a variation and it doesn’t matter what brand or how many stars are on them. They key is the amount of acceptable differences. BMW has stated that star rated are guaranteed to be within 1/4 inch or roughly 6.35mm before you really start running into issues quickly.

Hi Again,

IMHO you know what the difference between the longetivity of the Toyota v BMW is ????

Regular oil changes !!.....Every 5k for the engine and every 50k for gearbox, transfer box diffs etc for the Toyota versus maybe 15 - 20k for the engine and sealed for life transmission components for the BMW....even taking into account the improvement in the quality of oils, in my opinion BMW have engineered in a degree of failure to benefit from the spares market and repeat order vehicles.....just saying lol

Thanks to all for your comments and replies

Steve

 

[HotGrbg]

“Sealed for life” depends on who owns it.
While BMW considers the fluid “lifetime” the manufacturers of these components clearly state differently. BMW doesn’t care what happens after 100k miles. You as an educated owner are responsible for the maintenance services to extend the engineered longevity. The “sealed for life” does not mean that it’s impossible to service, in fact there are repair instructions on TIS for service of every component and all components do include drain ( or atleast fill ) plugs.
I’m not defending BMW here as I do think the transfer cases are a little fragile but PERSONALLY don’t compare them to Toyota as I’ve had 3 terrible ones including one I lemoned after 89 days in the shop. @edycol is also having a lot of trouble with his Toyota and head in over to Tacomaworld forum and you’ll see what kind of shit boxes Toyota is cranking out these days. The problem is not the vehicles IMHO but how Toyota addresses problems. Toyota pretends everything is not a problem and writes almost everything off as “characteristic of vehicle”. Combine this with the Atkinson cycle garbage V6s, the transmission programming that can’t figure out what’s happening and goes into torque converter 1/2 lock at around 35 creating a slight misfire/shudder feeling on most of the trucks your not going to sway me on “Toyota quality” but then again I’m pretty bias…
If you say get an old 4.0 V6 manual pickup from Toyota then we’re not even talking about the same class of vehicle e at that point.
Anyways just one internet jackasses opinion, good talk and hope it all works out for you my friend.

 

[spbtechnical]

“Sealed for life” depends on who owns it.
While BMW considers the fluid “lifetime” the manufacturers of these components clearly state differently. BMW doesn’t care what happens after 100k miles. You as an educated owner are responsible for the maintenance services to extend the engineered longevity. The “sealed for life” does not mean that it’s impossible to service, in fact there are repair instructions on TIS for service of every component and all components do include drain ( or atleast fill ) plugs.
I’m not defending BMW here as I do think the transfer cases are a little fragile but PERSONALLY don’t compare them to Toyota as I’ve had 3 terrible ones including one I lemoned after 89 days in the shop. @edycol is also having a lot of trouble with his Toyota and head in over to Tacomaworld forum and you’ll see what kind of shit boxes Toyota is cranking out these days. The problem is not the vehicles IMHO but how Toyota addresses problems. Toyota pretends everything is not a problem and writes almost everything off as “characteristic of vehicle”. Combine this with the Atkinson cycle garbage V6s, the transmission programming that can’t figure out what’s happening and goes into torque converter 1/2 lock at around 35 creating a slight misfire/shudder feeling on most of the trucks your not going to sway me on “Toyota quality” but then again I’m pretty bias…
If you say get an old 4.0 V6 manual pickup from Toyota then we’re not even talking about the same class of vehicle e at that point.
Anyways just one internet jackasses opinion, good talk and hope it all works out for you my friend.

Hi,

Appreciate your comments and reply....I think quality ain't the same as it used to be, my Landcruiser was a 1993 model....just thinking you must be up early in the good old US of A lol

Take care
Cheers
Steve

Cheers
Steve

 

[ghpup]

.just thinking you must be up early in the good old US of A lol

If he was on the East Coast, it was 7:00 AM. Not that early for many, including me out west....