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Hi all - first time posting to the forum. I purchased my 2011 X5 50i in 2014 as a 1 owner vehicle with 65K miles; now sitting with 99K. Since then I have had all the typical issues associated with this engine. This includes having the rear main seal blow out, hesitation while accelerating, black/grey smoke, reduced power warnings, etc. BMW was kind enough to reimburse for the rear main seal fix. I've had the CCP performed and have also kept up to speed on the SIB's over the years which resulted in a new driveshaft, in-tank fuel pump, and drivers air bag. I've also had a front wheel bearing go bad. I keep my vehicles maintained so have also replaced brake fluid, transfer case/differential oil, transmission fluid, coolant, power steering fluid, and oil changes every 5K or 6 months.

Now back to the point of this post. My dealer has been monitoring the X5's oil consumption and after the latest top off they requested that I leave the car so they could determine whether the vehicle needs new valve stem seals or whether it would get an engine replacement. I dropped the vehicle off and got a call that afternoon and was told that BMW NA has approved the valve stem seal fix.

Here's where it gets interesting, my SA proceeds to tell me that they recommend replacing a whole host of coolant/oil lines while the stem seals are being replaced. Are these not included in the settlement? Total for that work is about $4K which the SA claims includes lower labor hours as the items will be accessible during the stem seal replacement. Given my understanding of what goes into the stem seal fix, I'm having a hard time believing the quote I was provided has been reduced at all; it appears to be a fully loaded labor and parts quote.

I've attached the quote from the dealer, please disregard my handwriting, I was crossing things out to make myself feel better. :rofl:

Can anyone provide insight specifically related to the coolant lines and coolant hose replacement items for $2,917.57 and $1,199.95, respectively? Am I getting hosed? ;)
 

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It’s not included. While it is logical to do as diy while you’re in there, with dealer price, it’s like being bent over a barrel with no kiss at the end.


Sent from my iPad using Bimmerfest
 

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Lol

Those are fake numbers...all end in x99. Like a dollar store special

The SA is just screwing you. Tell them you want a SPECIIFIC part number list. Or you will tow the car to a different dealer.
 

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1200 for cooling hoses... Then a separate 250 for a coolant service?

299 for an alignment?!?! It will be a crappy BMW dealer aligment (see my signature). Dealer will almost surely poo poo 'guys on the internet', and give you a crap result.

It really is the epitome of retnal service sales... A list of service that has almost no correlation to the actaul parts, made up numbers...
 

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One more thought. You should press for a new motor, not just the vavle stem fix. Your dealer is clearly in the 'thief' column, so I don't trust them. You have no idea how hard they really tried w BMW... I'd really press BMW on will this fix the oil consumption? And what if it diesnt?

Just saying.

Edit: In case you don't know HOW to 'press for a new motor'... You write a letter. One of those paper things. It should be concise and clear, yet cover all the issues: your car has this 'problem'; BMW has agreed it has this problem' there is a defect in these enigmas for whiuch BWM is replacing these engines; you do not believe stem seals alone will fix the issue; you will hold BMWNA responsible for a fix if the oil consumption remains AND for any out of pocket costs during this 'stopgap'; valve stem fix.

Do NOT assume your dealer is honest or competent in their dealing with BMWNA.

Send this via email AND PAPER to BMWNA customer relations. Not an email, a document. With a record of delivery. This increases thier attention.
 

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I would pursue a new engine also since BMW is right in the middle of replacing a lot of N63's right now due to the settlement agreement in the recent class action suit. What if after you contribute $4K you are still consuming excess oil? The cooling lines are a known problem because the rubber couplers are right beside the two hot turbochargers. I insulated my lines and PCV hoses but for whatever reason very few seem to be interested in doing that. BMW even came out with a service bulletin for the M5 with the S63 engine which addresses excessive heat exposure to turbocharger coolant and oil lines. It included special heat insulators which cover the vulnerable parts of the lines. Even though the N63 is very similar to the M5's S63 the insulators do not fit so you'll have to design something similar on your own.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for the input. I didn't post the entire doc but the total on that page was over $8k which is essentially BMW recouping the majority of the stem seal job itself. You can see they doubled up on ATF flush, power steering, and cooling flushes.

Based on the responses above I've left a message with the SA and will be drafting something to BMW NA over the holiday break. I don't want to pay $4k then have the issue persist (or something else pop up such as turbos) when I could just pay my pro rata share of a new engine cost/install and be in a much better spot. The payout on my end goes up quite a bit if I pass 100k miles, which I'm very close to.

Will keep you all informed.
 

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Glad you dropped back in and posted. Too many one hit wonders drop in, get overwhelmed and go away.

FWIW, the BF X70 forums is a step above the usually drivel you see in online forums. We like to think you will find thoughtful and helpful engagement.

Couple O thoughts...

1. BMW is BMW, the dealer is A SEPARATE COMPANY. You really need to understand this, and the ramifications. It is SUPPOSED to be a seamless expereince, but it rarely is. SOmetimes the dealer plays it straight, acts as your advocate, pushes BMWNA to maximize your coverage (and minimize your spend). Or at least they don't screw you. Beleive it or not, dealers will sometimes go though the minimal motions and treat customers as open wallets.

2. In our professional lives, or as just consumers, we take information in, process, and make a decision based on this information. This usually works. With the inet we can get educated. We talk to trade people, experts, others- and generally can make intelligent decisions. But for 'not car people', this areas is a challenge. In this case, you are trying to use the dealers (utter) scam 'quote' to provide you with the illusion of information, but it really isn't- it is poorly described, over priced and not likely needed... But given most owners have this type of poor info they are forced into false choices. "Oh, let's not do the injector and cooling service but go ahead with the others".

3. Don't think your SA is an ally or even an honest broker. They may actually make WAY more on a stem seal than a new motor. I don't know the $$ breakdown but the stem seal labor hours might be WAY more than just a motor change. Just saying.

Welcome to BF. Good luck!
 

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3. Don't think your SA is an ally or even an honest broker. They may actually make WAY more on a stem seal than a new motor. I don't know the $$ breakdown but the stem seal labor hours might be WAY more than just a motor change. Just saying.

Oil is cheap. $7 a quart. Why change an engine and run the risk of further snafus due to incorrect installation or collateral damage ???
 

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I'd advise going to another dealer first before reaching out to BMWNA. It could be like calling into tech support and hoping for a more proficient result when you call in again. You could also try to go in when that SA is off.

As for the 4k in while i'm in there preventative repairs, I'd hate to spend that and then still have the consumption issue.

This time around, I'd recommend you have the dealer do all the free work to address the consumption issue and hold them to the lawsuit that if they can't resolve it. Avoid spending any money until the consumption issue is fixed. Even if you have to pay 4k for hoses or whatever down the road you'll at least know the big issue is resolved. After the consumption is resolved also consider a good Indy shop for the loose end repairs.

I currently have an oil consumption issue. I tracked consumption with the dealer and also fixed random leaks with a 3rd party warranty while I was at it. I've started seeing smoke and with the timing of the lawsuit I qualified for a replacement engine so i'm on the waiting list.

Read the lawsuit to understand the process. My understanding is that they essentially have to start a fix for free to address consumption. The gray area is what if they find a damaged hose and do you get a refund for repair work if you end up needing a new engine anyway. The lawsuit setup a help line/email for these questions and there are some lawyers assigned to the lawsuit if the dealer doesn't follow the rules once you figure those out.





The engine replacement area may apply to you:
https://bangclasssettlement.com/Commonly-Asked-Questions
Engine Replacement

Class Members who are then-current owners or lessees of Class Vehicles may be eligible to receive one (1) replacement engine, which will include the cylinder heads, per Class Vehicle during the earlier of 10 years or 120,000 miles from a Class Vehicle's in-service date, if:

The N63 Customer Care Package (described in Service Information Bulletin SI B11 06 14 has been performed on the Class Vehicle; and
The Class Vehicle thereafter fails two (2) Oil-Consumption Tests; and
BMW cannot completely resolve the excess oil consumption issue after the second failed Oil-Consumption Test and second repair attempt; and
The Class Vehicle is then brought back to a BMW Center for an Oil Consumption issue and the BMW Center confirms that there in fact remains an Oil Consumption issue; and
The Class Member agrees to "contribute" to the total replacement cost of the engine (inclusive of parts and labor) as follows:


Note: If a Class Vehicle is brought to a BMW Center and BMW, in its discretion, determines not to attempt to make a repair related to excess oil consumption, but instead to replace the engine due to the excess oil consumption, the Class Member will have the option for an engine replacement but must agree to contribute to the total replacement cost of the engine (inclusive of parts and labor) in the percentage associated with the odometer mileage of the Class Vehicle at the time BMW determines to recommend replacing the engine rather than attempting to repair it as set forth in the chart above.
 

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There's also a theory out there that aside from the valves seals that incorrect factory installed injectors caused damage to the cylinder walls. Replacing the injectors under the customer care package supposedly only stopped further damage.

The American spec needed a redesigned version from the original ones in Europe since our fuel has more sulfur and/or emission requirements.

Combining the 2 theories together one can claim that scratched cylinder heads allowed high sulfur gas to get into the oil supply causing damage to the engine.

If someone can set me straight or affirm this that would be great.
 

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3. Don't think your SA is an ally or even an honest broker. They may actually make WAY more on a stem seal than a new motor. I don't know the $$ breakdown but the stem seal labor hours might be WAY more than just a motor change. Just saying.

Oil is cheap. $7 a quart. Why change an engine and run the risk of further snafus due to incorrect installation or collateral damage ???
Yes oil is cheap but at what rate of burn is it okay and for how long for other systems to remain healthy like injectors, exhaust parts, etc. Sure the installation may not be perfect but not doing something about the problem may be worse. Hopefully BMWNA stands by their replacement engine for some basic level of warranty period.
 

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At what rate of consumption does this N63 lawsuit apply? I have a 2012 N63 that I purchased with 78,400 miles. The dealer did an oil change at that time and I needed to add a quart at 81,775. This seems reasonable except that I have read that it is now common for the dealer to "over fill" by 1 quart when doing oil changes due to known consumption issues. I added 1 quart at 81,775 (I have owned BMW's and Audi's and had a quart on hand with me when iDrive said to add a quart in the parking garage at work. It showed full for only 100 miles and then showed down 1/8.

It doesn't SEEM to be consuming a lot, but I want to watch it like a hawk.

Thanks all.



PS - I LOVE this powertrain when I push down on the gas pedal. Damn thing moves! That said, I am not a fan of the tires (dealer installed Duelers at 75K by original owner).
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Used to be approx. 1 liter in less than or equal to 750 miles, but the class action states if the indicator comes on at any point between the standard oil change interval you may be a candidate. The settlement docs can be found via the link above.

I find the settlement agreement somewhat vague in the fact that if the consumption issue cannot be fixed in 2 attempts then the new engine comes into play. Seems some have been offered the new engine straight away.
 

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but the class action states if the indicator comes on at any point between the standard oil change interval you may be a candidate.
With that being the case, I wonder what engine isn't a replacement candidate?

I would like to take advantage, if possible, of a new engine possibility.

Just make an appointment?
 

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At what rate of consumption does this N63 lawsuit apply? I have a 2012 N63 that I purchased with 78,400 miles. The dealer did an oil change at that time and I needed to add a quart at 81,775. This seems reasonable except that I have read that it is now common for the dealer to "over fill" by 1 quart when doing oil changes due to known consumption issues. I added 1 quart at 81,775 (I have owned BMW's and Audi's and had a quart on hand with me when iDrive said to add a quart in the parking garage at work. It showed full for only 100 miles and then showed down 1/8.

It doesn't SEEM to be consuming a lot, but I want to watch it like a hawk.

Thanks all.



PS - I LOVE this powertrain when I push down on the gas pedal. Damn thing moves! That said, I am not a fan of the tires (dealer installed Duelers at 75K by original owner).
A claim question/answer company has already been setup by the Lawsuit to address all your questions and needs. In other words, they've been paid to answer your questions. Someone clever would ask them questions and circle back with knowledge.


https://bangclasssettlement.com/Contact-Us
Settlement Administrator
Toll Free Phone Number: 1-877-832-4402
Email: [email protected]
 

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A claim question/answer company has already been setup by the Lawsuit to address all your questions and needs. In other words, they've been paid to answer your questions. Someone clever would ask them questions and circle back with knowledge.


https://bangclasssettlement.com/Contact-Us
Settlement Administrator
Toll Free Phone Number: 1-877-832-4402
Email: [email protected]
Thanks for the link. What do you think the purpose of this board is? Conversation? Q&A?

I think both.

Someone truly clever would be able to offer advice while stifling their own need to be condescending.
 

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Thanks for the link. What do you think the purpose of this board is? Conversation? Q&A?

I think both.

Someone truly clever would be able to offer advice while stifling their own need to be condescending.
I'm simply relaying my experience and steps that lead up to the approval of my engine. I'll share my experience again once I the work is actually done.

I have a 3rd party warranty so my situation may not apply to everyone. I'm curious how X5 owners without a warranty will be treated or maybe myself if there is a warranty exclusion. For example what if a hose or seal is bad when the valve seals are done. Also what if they find a bad accessory when they're changing out the engine.
 
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