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I hear this is the place to come for information, so here I am.

Bought from an independent dealer with extensive notes on service and repair history, all of which was BMW facilities. Felt pretty good, even though she's a 2009 and had 97k miles on her. The diesel engine ran great, had no standing or pre-existing codes to deal with, but has not received the airbag repair.

Set an appt at the local dealer for the 100k service because the wife wanted it dialed in and ready for the next 100k miles.

3 days prior to appt, vehicle has a stumble, then on comes the CEL. I have since learned the code that would have appeared, if they checked, was:

004CE7 DDE Misfire detected, cylinder 2

Wife is in town at this point, and drives approximately a mile to the dealer. Dealer states 'it's not a big deal', and never connects the vehicle to a diagnostic device. She is sent home, to return 3 days later for the 100k service. At this point we don't know that it was the 004CE7 code.

2 days later, vehicle completely disabled on the side of the road, requiring a tow, with a complete fuel system failure. 2 full pages of codes are thrown at this point per the subsequent investigation.

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Dealer has reported this is a complete HPFP failure, with unknown upstream and downstream distribution of metal shards from the pump disintegrating. Apparently this is something that has been seen in the 335D's. Currently stating a $3500 repair to replace the HPFP and flush the fuel system, however it may not resolve the issue due to distribution of fuel pump fragments. Most effective repair per the shop would be to replace pump, confirm whether it is in fact repaired, or not. If not, complete fuel system replacement to include tank, lines, low and high pressure fuel pumps, hard lines, injectors, etc, for a total cost of $14,950. I have a printout of the complete failure list, but obviously all codes came about almost simultaneously with the major failure.

You all have owned these things, I'm new to it. Lay upon me a bit of knowledge. I suspect the dealer could have seen the early code and prevented a much more catastrophic failure.

Thanks for input or similar experiences.

E
 

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Resident Curmudgeon
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Just to get the conversation started...lets see what others chime in.

;)

1. See if the dealer will help. It is massively out of warranty and you are a new owner- but stress it was always sertviced at BMW **and** you were there for the 100k service.

If they dont help, in a very significant way, then:

2. Get it away from that dealer.

A decent diesel mechanic will be able to cut that cost in half. I would not want to commit to 3500 until they tell you the extent. Absolutely NO WAY I would let them fcuk me for $15k with an open ended check and the car in pieces with a $3500 approval!

It is beyond my comprehension why they woudl say hard lines, tank, etc, etc need replacing- other than to scare you into the 3500 bill.

Get a second opinion. Pay the money, winch it onto a flat bed. Find another shop in Spokane- lots of diesels up there, no????

Edit: the more I think of this, the more distrustful I am becoming of this diagnosis...
 

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Nuclear engineer
02/2012 X5 35d M57Y CPO 100K miles NOKIAN WR G3 20K miles
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Just to get the conversation started...lets see what others chime in
The horse, the buck($$$), is out of the barn, but an independent Pre-Purchase Inspection could not have hurt as much as this situation will.

Best wishes.

ETA on further consideration. Look in the most distant critically dimensioned part and if trash is found there then everything back to the source of the trash probably needs to be replaced.

A story from my career. We had enforced procedures for everything. When I first started, I understood the safety lanyard attaching the cap to its stick-pen, but not the pen opening procedure. It was required and enforced that the closed pen would be held vertically cap down, the pen extracted gently from the cap and the pen inspected for the presence of the ink-ball. Think of how one snaps open a stick pen, the ball was discovered missing in the clean and fail-safe area over an open and fueled reactor core. MILLION$$$$ of dollars were spent flushing in an attempt to recover that pen-ball.
 

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1 get it away from the dealer, dont be retarded. find a good bmw shop that specializes in diesle. My x5 3.5 2011 just came back from dealer btw it has exteneded Bmw and maint and they told me it needed over 5k in repairs!! a fkin joke as 2k miles ago i had it on the lift and went through the whole truck.
 

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Pedant and Curmudgeon
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I hear this is the place to come for information, so here I am.

Bought from an independent dealer with extensive notes on service and repair history, all of which was BMW facilities. Felt pretty good, even though she's a 2009 and had 97k miles on her.
...
3 days prior to appt, vehicle has a stumble, then on comes the CEL. I have since learned the code that would have appeared, if they checked, was:

004CE7 DDE Misfire detected, cylinder 2

Wife is in town at this point, and drives approximately a mile to the dealer. Dealer states 'it's not a big deal', and never connects the vehicle to a diagnostic device. She is sent home, to return 3 days later for the 100k service. At this point we don't know that it was the 004CE7 code.

2 days later, vehicle completely disabled on the side of the road, requiring a tow, with a complete fuel system failure. 2 full pages of codes are thrown at this point per the subsequent investigation.

-----

Dealer has reported this is a complete HPFP failure, with unknown upstream and downstream distribution of metal shards from the pump disintegrating. Apparently this is something that has been seen in the 335D's. Currently stating a $3500 repair to replace the HPFP and flush the fuel system, however it may not resolve the issue due to distribution of fuel pump fragments. Most effective repair per the shop would be to replace pump, confirm whether it is in fact repaired, or not. If not, complete fuel system replacement to include tank, lines, low and high pressure fuel pumps, hard lines, injectors, etc, for a total cost of $14,950. I have a printout of the complete failure list, but obviously all codes came about almost simultaneously with the major failure.
1 get it away from the dealer, dont be retarded. find a good bmw shop that specializes in diesle. My x5 3.5 2011 just came back from dealer btw it has exteneded Bmw and maint and they told me it needed over 5k in repairs!! a fkin joke as 2k miles ago i had it on the lift and went through the whole truck.
Although an attractive idea, BMW diesels are not truck diesels. Many specialized tools and procedures are needed, including diagnostic computers and oddball metric wrenches, to work on these. Although Spokane is a bigger city and the dealership looks modern, there are not many people qualified even at the dealership to work on them. The comment by the dealer's SA about failure rates does not inspire confidence (see below.) The OP should, however, call everyone local in www.bimrs.org and www.bimmershops.com and ask them if they extensive experience on diesel BMWs.

OP (E), sorry about this problem. I think it's worthwhile for you to treat this problem the same as a miss-fuel with gasoline. There are a number of threads about this on the diesel sub-forum (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=154). Try "hpfp failure) as a search term. Some useful threads:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=851962&highlight=hpfp+failure
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=922098
There is also a lot of info on the E90POST diesel subform: http://www.e90post.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=377

If you look at the posts here and on E90POST, there are very few HPFP failures (one thread above indicates only two for instance), however the HPFP on the X5d is different than on the 335d and there are fewer X5d posters on the diesel forums than 335d posters. Let's not worry about that. The main cause of HPFP failures is miss-fuelling or fuel contamination. Look at the previous maintenance records for the fuel filter replacement - they should be every 3 oil changes, somewhere between 30K and 39K miles. If one was missed, could be an indicator, and a possible call for the dealer to take some credit for the failure. Often, HPFP failures follow directly the introduction of "bad fuel", usually from a non-major brand or station with not much turn-over.

You should ask your insurance carrier (start with your agent) if you have coverage under your comprehensive policy rider (if you have one.)

Now, we have all that out of the way, on to the actual repair process. I think the dealer's analysis and outlined process is ok. The prices are not ok (that's why alternative shops is recommended.) Given that, the parts are quite expensive: the HPFP is a $700 part, the fuel rail $600. The 6 fuel injectors are around $500 each although I've seen them less non-oem and used. The fuel tank is $1000 and the LPFP is $300. The regulating valve at $260 probably also should be replaced. To see all this stuff, look at http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/partgrp?id=ZW03-USA-12-2009-E70N-BMW-X5_35dX (the fuel system and preparation are what you should be looking at.)

I would not replace the tank. I would drain and flush/clean it. I might replace the LPFP and the level sensor in the other side, but running them to flush any particles should IMO be enough. It's clear that the HPFP and fuel strainer/filter needs to be replaced. Not clear if the fuel rail and hoses can't be flushed. The hoses and high pressure piping are relatively cheap, but they should be easy to flush.

Unfortunately, since you've had at least one miss-fire, at least one and probably all your injectors should be replaced. It's possible that they might be cleaned/remanufactured, but they all need to be attended to by some means.

This is all very expensive. I would personally not be confident unless all the lines were flushed (fuel rail, return lines, supply lines, fuel tank) and the HPFP and injectors were replaced. You might consider and search for a used engine from a wreck as it might be about the same cost: note that the fuel supply, tank and return lines would still need to be flushed if using a replacement. Another option is to call around at the Seattle and Portland dealerships and shops for pricing; transport cost/towing is the least of your worries at this time.
 

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I've had my 12 X5D for almost 2 years now with no issues. These stories scare me. I do keep up on all services and I'm about to change my fuel filter as my records show the last one was 30k miles ago. I've been thinking hard about trading to a 328 wagon. I think it's a good point too that these small diesels are not like American V8 diesels, they are vastly more complicated and harder to work on. Jesus you need a specific bottle just to fill your own DEF. Plus the 35i with the ZF8 gets similar mileage as the diesel. The M57 is very reliable internally, fir the American market, the clean diesel tech proves troublesome.
 

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I've had my 12 X5D for almost 2 years now with no issues. These stories scare me. I do keep up on all services and I'm about to change my fuel filter as my records show the last one was 30k miles ago. I've been thinking hard about trading to a 328 wagon. I think it's a good point too that these small diesels are not like American V8 diesels, they are vastly more complicated and harder to work on. Jesus you need a specific bottle just to fill your own DEF. Plus the 35i with the ZF8 gets similar mileage as the diesel. The M57 is very reliable internally, fir the American market, the clean diesel tech proves troublesome.
You do not need special bottle to fill DEF, you can use regular funnel.
Also, problem are dealers. I got CEL two weeks ago. Read out from Carly is EGR. It is issue on any diesel and especially if car is driven in city. I got mine with 34,900 miles and now has 59K and put all that since 10/29/2015. I think car was driven in the city a lot before me (Bakersfield, CA) since I had evaporator failure and now EGR. However EGR is small problem, you can clean it or buy new one for some $300. It is one hour job. Dealer tke is, keeps car for 4 (four) ****** days! Granted, I have CPO, got loaner, so do not care, but seriously? Take car on Thursday, make 20mls, CEL again on same code. Return it yesterday so they can figure out is it new part, maybe they install it badly or maybe there is bit of CBU around (hardly doubt that).
But I believe bad rep these cars have is coming a lot from dealership practices.
 

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What was that?
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Oddball metric wrenches? How is this even remotely possible? :facepalm;

The whole reason metric exists is to avoid "oddball" imperial sizes... Because in the metric system, each size is exactly 1/10th or 1 mm smaller than the next and larger than the previous one. No strange sizes ever... Smallest rarely ever goes below 4mm, largest is around 34 mm.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Pedant and Curmudgeon
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Oddball metric wrenches? How is this even remotely possible?

The whole reason metric exists is to avoid "oddball" imperial sizes... Because in the metric system, each size is exactly 1/10th or 1 mm smaller than the next and larger than the previous one. No strange sizes ever... Smallest rarely ever goes below 4mm, largest is around 34 mm.
Do you have all the metric Star drives? Torx metric set? All the metric hex wrenches? I assure you that there are some you don't have. Neither do I, for that matter.
 

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The problem is that US dealers cannot fix any cars properly because of inadequate diagnosis and there isn't any quality control over how they repair and diagnose their cars and they assume customers don't know anything about cars and what they say is always right because they are experts. As far as OP goes you should take it for a second opinion preferably someone who is a reputable BMW specialist.
 

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My guess is that someone, probably the previous owner, tried to run a tank of gasoline. This is known to wreck the HPFP. No doubt said previous owner fixed via the cheap method suggested to you of just replacing the HPFP, flushing the system, and praying. Previous owner was at least smart enough to unload the car.

It is also pretty well known that when the HPFP grenades and strews metal bits everywhere, the "RIGHT" fix is to replace the tank, lines, injectors, HPFP, basically everything the fuel touches, since it is impossible to clean all those things enough to prevent those tiny metal shards from killing the HPFP again. As you found out, the cost for that is around $15,000. If you go the cheap route and just replace the HPFP and flush, you can probably plan on doing it again if a few thousand miles.

Sorry this happened to you, but my guess is that you were victimized by some cheapskate.
 

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Now, we have all that out of the way, on to the actual repair process. I think the dealer's analysis and outlined process is ok. The prices are not ok (that's why alternative shops is recommended.) Given that, the parts are quite expensive: the HPFP is a $700 part, the fuel rail $600. The 6 fuel injectors are around $500 each although I've seen them less non-oem and used. The fuel tank is $1000 and the LPFP is $300. The regulating valve at $260 probably also should be replaced. To see all this stuff, look at http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/partgrp?id=ZW03-USA-12-2009-E70N-BMW-X5_35dX (the fuel system and preparation are what you should be looking at.)

I would not replace the tank. I would drain and flush/clean it. I might replace the LPFP and the level sensor in the other side, but running them to flush any particles should IMO be enough. It's clear that the HPFP and fuel strainer/filter needs to be replaced. Not clear if the fuel rail and hoses can't be flushed. The hoses and high pressure piping are relatively cheap, but they should be easy to flush.

Unfortunately, since you've had at least one miss-fire, at least one and probably all your injectors should be replaced. It's possible that they might be cleaned/remanufactured, but they all need to be attended to by some means.

This is all very expensive. I would personally not be confident unless all the lines were flushed (fuel rail, return lines, supply lines, fuel tank) and the HPFP and injectors were replaced. You might consider and search for a used engine from a wreck as it might be about the same cost: note that the fuel supply, tank and return lines would still need to be flushed if using a replacement. Another option is to call around at the Seattle and Portland dealerships and shops for pricing; transport cost/towing is the least of your worries at this time.
Why wouldnt one pop out the injectors and send them off for rebuild or testing? At $500 per, or $3k a set, surely his lighly used but maybe contaminated w/ metal particle injectors are OK? I do realized diesel pressures are far differnet than has FI... so just an idea.

Are we thinking a previous owner misfueled the car- or had contaminated gas- and then dumped it and OP purchased this time bomb? Or is the dealers assessment- HPFP went out and metal has contaminated system- accurate? In other words what IS the 'contaminant' we are concerned with?
 

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OP- has dealre done a fuel test? Any comment from them about 'fuel contamination"?
 

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A story from my career. We had enforced procedures for everything. When I first started, I understood the safety lanyard attaching the cap to its stick-pen, but not the pen opening procedure. It was required and enforced that the closed pen would be held vertically cap down, the pen extracted gently from the cap and the pen inspected for the presence of the ink-ball. Think of how one snaps open a stick pen, the ball was discovered missing in the clean and fail-safe area over an open and fueled reactor core. MILLION$$$$ of dollars were spent flushing in an attempt to recover that pen-ball.
Good story.

I suppose you didnt actually KNOW if it WAS in the core or not. Just assumptive....

I had a college buddy, dad was a professional diver- crazy stuff, dams, flumes, etc His 'retirement dive' was fuel rod pool- enough in one week to reach his retirement goal.
 

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Every new job is an opportunity to buy new tools.


:)
 

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Every new job is an opportunity to buy new tools.

:)
So very true. I've replaced my uni-syn tool, dwell/tach meter, wheel cylinder hone and point file with a BMW Code reader and a complete set of torx and e-torx sockets, a fuel pump ring removal tool, and a torx ratchet end wrench for OFHG replacement. Add to that a couple of specialty sockets for belt tensioner retraction and gearbox fill/drain plug removal.

My most recent was a couple of mirrors so I could change my crank sensor without removing my intake manifold.

Edit: Forgot my pressure oil can for reverse bleeding my clutch.
 
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