Sorry for Long note: ...I went to my local BMW store today to order a 2024 M440I xDrive Gran Coupe for Performance Center Delivery. I had used the 4 Series GC price guide for MY2024 for my research. but at the dealer when we built out the car, the base price was 62,150 vs the 61,300 on the pricing guide. All the options were the same, but then dealer added an additional $1499 'BMW Protection Package' and $799 Doc fee. So total price was $3148 more then I expected. I explained I didn't want the 'Protection package' but he told me all cars get it because they detail car when they receive. When I reminded him I was taking performance delivery, he went to the 'back office' and said they would only charge me $599 for this mandatory fee. I asked the value of my trade - (2017 BMW 430 xDrive GC) and they were reluctant to offer a value and suggested I sell for cash at CarMax. When I pressed, they said 14K, a good $3500 less than KBB. I asked why so low because 100% of my service all these years has been at the dealer and the tech gave it a great review when we spoke last week. No good answers. I left, did not order my car and questioned my thoughts on new car. My question 1) Why the cost difference between price guide and actual charge? Is that normal? 2) The additional charges seem way out of line, but I could be wrong...Is this because I wanted to take delivery in SC Performance Center? - I am now taking a step back and rethinking my future car purchase. Really bummed out from my experience ....thx you for your thoughts
Newbee Ordering Question - 2024 M440 xDrive Gran Coupe
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Joined
·
17,782 Posts
Don't expect a BMW dealership or BMW salesman to comment here on the proposal of another dealership or salesman.
Car dealerships are free to charge whatever they want for cars, and pay whatever they want for trade-ins. You're also free to offer what you want for buying cars and to ask for whatever you want for your trade-in. It the dealership's and your numbers end up the same, a sale is made.
If you choose to trade in a car, you're going to get a lot less than what you'd get to sell it yourself.
With the current inflation, MSRP changes are going to be more frequent now. Pricing guides can have obsolete information. "Build" your car on BMWUSA.com to find out the current MSRP for the base model and for options.
Car manufacturers don't publish "dealer invoice" prices anymore. They did the last time I bought a new BMW, March 2018. At the time, "dealer invoice was 93% of the base model MSRP, 92% of options' MSRP, and 100% of the transportation fee ($995 for BMW's the last time I checked).
I'm willing to pay for good service. The better I'm treated, the more I'm willing to pay for a new car.
My first offer for Frau Putzer's 2018 X3 was to split the difference between MSRP and "dealer invoice," not including the incentives I'm eligible for. BMW of Bubbavile (BMWoB) took my offer. One of the provisions of my offer was any "processing fees," would come out of their side of the equation. There were a lot of incentives at the time, including one for $500 from BMW FS for having their credit card and financing the car though them. I also had $1200 in points on that credit card. BMWoB took my first offer without a fight. By the time the dust settled, I paid 11.37% below MSRP, before all the legitimate fees (sales tax, DMV fees, Floriduh WTF fee (WTF?) of $6.50, etc.
With the car shortage, BMWoB was charging over MSRP for new cars the last time I was in there. They also had very few new BMW's in stock. For some reason, they had more X7's that 3 Series in stock. They also had very few car salesmen.
I've had trouble with new cars' clearcoats being scratch by the minimum-wage persons who wash cars at dealerships. So, my new rule (part of "good service"), the "Putzer Protection Plan," is that my factory ordered new cars are presented for delivery unwashed with the shipping film still on them. It a dealership doesn't like this, e.g. Honda of Bubbaville, Hyundai of Bubbaville, GM of Bubbaville, I say "O.k." and start walking toward the door to the parking lot without saying anything else. That's how Frau Putzer ended up with a BMW instead of a Honda, Hyundai, Chevrolet, Buick, GMC, or Cadillac.
My plan is to replace my cars bought new when they're ten to twelve years old. The window for replacing my 2014 535i opens up a year from now, and I'm looking forward to a new car. If market conditions are favorable, nest year I'll propose my long-standing offer, to split the difference between "dealer invoice" and MSRP, so about 4% off of MSRP with me getting any incentives available. It they take it, fine. If not, that's fine too. I'll tell them "We'll try this again next year." I could keep my 535i 13 years if I had to, before it will need new tires and a new battery and go over 100k miles.
My 535i will likely be worth around $10k by this time next year. FSBO-ing a $10k used, well maintained, ten-year-old BMW is fairly easy. FSBO-ing a $35k, three- or four-year-old BMW isn't.
Car dealerships are free to charge whatever they want for cars, and pay whatever they want for trade-ins. You're also free to offer what you want for buying cars and to ask for whatever you want for your trade-in. It the dealership's and your numbers end up the same, a sale is made.
If you choose to trade in a car, you're going to get a lot less than what you'd get to sell it yourself.
With the current inflation, MSRP changes are going to be more frequent now. Pricing guides can have obsolete information. "Build" your car on BMWUSA.com to find out the current MSRP for the base model and for options.
Car manufacturers don't publish "dealer invoice" prices anymore. They did the last time I bought a new BMW, March 2018. At the time, "dealer invoice was 93% of the base model MSRP, 92% of options' MSRP, and 100% of the transportation fee ($995 for BMW's the last time I checked).
I'm willing to pay for good service. The better I'm treated, the more I'm willing to pay for a new car.
My first offer for Frau Putzer's 2018 X3 was to split the difference between MSRP and "dealer invoice," not including the incentives I'm eligible for. BMW of Bubbavile (BMWoB) took my offer. One of the provisions of my offer was any "processing fees," would come out of their side of the equation. There were a lot of incentives at the time, including one for $500 from BMW FS for having their credit card and financing the car though them. I also had $1200 in points on that credit card. BMWoB took my first offer without a fight. By the time the dust settled, I paid 11.37% below MSRP, before all the legitimate fees (sales tax, DMV fees, Floriduh WTF fee (WTF?) of $6.50, etc.
With the car shortage, BMWoB was charging over MSRP for new cars the last time I was in there. They also had very few new BMW's in stock. For some reason, they had more X7's that 3 Series in stock. They also had very few car salesmen.
I've had trouble with new cars' clearcoats being scratch by the minimum-wage persons who wash cars at dealerships. So, my new rule (part of "good service"), the "Putzer Protection Plan," is that my factory ordered new cars are presented for delivery unwashed with the shipping film still on them. It a dealership doesn't like this, e.g. Honda of Bubbaville, Hyundai of Bubbaville, GM of Bubbaville, I say "O.k." and start walking toward the door to the parking lot without saying anything else. That's how Frau Putzer ended up with a BMW instead of a Honda, Hyundai, Chevrolet, Buick, GMC, or Cadillac.
My plan is to replace my cars bought new when they're ten to twelve years old. The window for replacing my 2014 535i opens up a year from now, and I'm looking forward to a new car. If market conditions are favorable, nest year I'll propose my long-standing offer, to split the difference between "dealer invoice" and MSRP, so about 4% off of MSRP with me getting any incentives available. It they take it, fine. If not, that's fine too. I'll tell them "We'll try this again next year." I could keep my 535i 13 years if I had to, before it will need new tires and a new battery and go over 100k miles.
My 535i will likely be worth around $10k by this time next year. FSBO-ing a $10k used, well maintained, ten-year-old BMW is fairly easy. FSBO-ing a $35k, three- or four-year-old BMW isn't.
Sounds to me like your dealer is shady. I would never pay for a detail for a delivery required to take place. They should just do this like all dealers do. I personally refuse to pay retail price as well. I recently ordered a new X6 M60i with individual paint and received a reduction of MSRP from my dealer and was offered the 3 year brake replacement package that I will may be refusing as it is optional. They do not charge for delivery detailing or require you to pay any random fees that are not required my Pennsylvania. YMMV but I would find a new dealer and maybe leave a yelp review on your experience.
1) You should contact Jon Shafer at this site. He will give you a square deal with no BS fees and he does lots of performance deliveries for Bimmerfest members all over the country.
2) It's too early to talk trade. You're probably at least 3 months out from delivery. When the time comes, I've had good luck with Carvana. Despite their well publicized financial woes, they've consistently given me the best price for my trade and their check has always been good.
2) It's too early to talk trade. You're probably at least 3 months out from delivery. When the time comes, I've had good luck with Carvana. Despite their well publicized financial woes, they've consistently given me the best price for my trade and their check has always been good.
All great advice above.
If I remember correctly KBB gives you a range, right? The low end of the range is prolly the MOST a dealer will pay, and the high end of the range is the MOST you will get in a private sale. Much as I don't like Dealers, I have to admit that they will need to make some money on re-selling your trade-in. Sometimes they just send the car to an Auction, and end up losing money which is why they low-ball you on the trade-in.
Realistically, you will need to do your calculations based on the low end of KBB if you are trading in with a Dealer.
I believe that you should be able to "buy" the dealer invoice pricing on the internet. As someone else said here, a good starting point is to calculate the mid point of the MSRP and the Dealer Invoice.
So, (MSRP - Dealer Invoice) / 2 minus the Low End of your KBB trade-in value. This is the difference in price you are trying to minimize.
And also someone else said here, your offer should state "no additional surcharges or fees". Say you don't give a shit about detailing, because they are going to mar the pristine paint anyways with their re-used cloths!!
Don't be shy to email a bunch of dealers with your offer. Someone will bite. They will be noncommittal because they haven't seen your trade-in. But try them all out. Work with the one who is closest to your number and see how much more you can squeeze out of them.
Good luck.
If I remember correctly KBB gives you a range, right? The low end of the range is prolly the MOST a dealer will pay, and the high end of the range is the MOST you will get in a private sale. Much as I don't like Dealers, I have to admit that they will need to make some money on re-selling your trade-in. Sometimes they just send the car to an Auction, and end up losing money which is why they low-ball you on the trade-in.
Realistically, you will need to do your calculations based on the low end of KBB if you are trading in with a Dealer.
I believe that you should be able to "buy" the dealer invoice pricing on the internet. As someone else said here, a good starting point is to calculate the mid point of the MSRP and the Dealer Invoice.
So, (MSRP - Dealer Invoice) / 2 minus the Low End of your KBB trade-in value. This is the difference in price you are trying to minimize.
And also someone else said here, your offer should state "no additional surcharges or fees". Say you don't give a shit about detailing, because they are going to mar the pristine paint anyways with their re-used cloths!!
Don't be shy to email a bunch of dealers with your offer. Someone will bite. They will be noncommittal because they haven't seen your trade-in. But try them all out. Work with the one who is closest to your number and see how much more you can squeeze out of them.
Good luck.
Something to consider is sales tax. Some states tax the difference between the new car and the trade in. The savings from being taxed only on the new car can be greater than the difference between the trade in price and selling the car yourself. Check with your state and do the math.
Joined
·
17,782 Posts
KBB lists three values: trade-in (lowest), private sale, and retail (bought at a dealership, highest). Each price also has a range.
Joined
·
8,674 Posts
God is telling you to find a new dealer. When a car is delivered at a BMW dealer (not the Performance Center), the dealer is PAID DIRECTLY BY BMW TO PREP THE CAR. For any dealer to tack on $1,500 for something they are already paid to do is just deceitful and immoral. My two bits of advice:
- Hit up Jon Shafer for a non-nonsense transaction;
- Post the name of the dealer here to save other Festers from being put through what you went through.
Great input and thank you! I'm currently evaluating other dealers per the advice above - heading to FL and will talk with some. But I will not be purchasing my car from Louisville BMW. Thank you again, the journey is starting back up.
Just one more thought. This process of looking for and buying a car? I find it very very enjoyable. I know I get impatient sometimes 'cause I want the car so bad, so quickly. But then I tell myself, this is "enjoyable stress".....and then I take my time. So, enjoy the process as it goes - you cannot beat this kind of fun. The best of luck. It will be worth it in the end, is my way of thinking.
Joined
·
8,674 Posts
Florida is arguably the least competitive car market in the entire country. Why waste your time? Again, you can order for PCD from ANY dealer, ANYWHERE in the country. Instead of reinventing the wheel and trying to find a dealer who is competitive, why not work with one who the BF community knows irrefutably to be a straight shooter?
If there is some reason why you don't want to work with BF founder Jon Shafer, Adrian Avila in Atlanta would be my second choice, and I suspect the second choice of many of us old timers.
And BTW, the owner of BMW Louisville came from Brumos, one one of those notoriously non-competitive Florida dealerships: Check out Adrian Miron's LinkedIn page (BF will not let me link to it).
In your negotiating, you will be taking advantage of the BMWCCA rebate, right? If you joined BF in 2017, surely you're a BMWCCA member?
If there is some reason why you don't want to work with BF founder Jon Shafer, Adrian Avila in Atlanta would be my second choice, and I suspect the second choice of many of us old timers.
And BTW, the owner of BMW Louisville came from Brumos, one one of those notoriously non-competitive Florida dealerships: Check out Adrian Miron's LinkedIn page (BF will not let me link to it).
In your negotiating, you will be taking advantage of the BMWCCA rebate, right? If you joined BF in 2017, surely you're a BMWCCA member?
Joined
·
8,674 Posts
Again, you can purchase from a dealer ANYWHERE and pick the car up at the performance center: Iowa. Tennessee. New Jersey. California. Georgia. New Jersey. You do not need in-laws, out-laws, college roommates, ex-girlfriends, etc. Any dealer anywhere in the country will be delighted to service the car after you drive it home from South Carolina. Service is a lot more profitable than New Car Sales to any dealer.
You are really over-complicating this.
You are really over-complicating this.
Joined
·
17,782 Posts
Some dealerships will be a-holes about servicing your new BMW if you didn't buy it there. If you find one of those, you'd be better off not getting your car serviced there in the first place.
Some dealerships only give free loaners after the warranty period to people who bought their car from them.
If you can't find an acceptable deal near Louisville (Dayton, Cincinatti, Evansville, Indianapolis, etc.), reach out to Joh Shafer. He specializes in factory orders with no monkey business. His business model will likely be the industry norm sooner rather than later. The current business model norm (salesmen standing around looking at a lot full of new cars and hoping somebody comes by and buys one) is very inefficient.
Some dealerships only give free loaners after the warranty period to people who bought their car from them.
If you can't find an acceptable deal near Louisville (Dayton, Cincinatti, Evansville, Indianapolis, etc.), reach out to Joh Shafer. He specializes in factory orders with no monkey business. His business model will likely be the industry norm sooner rather than later. The current business model norm (salesmen standing around looking at a lot full of new cars and hoping somebody comes by and buys one) is very inefficient.
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
