[beden1]

Posted On Aug. 28, 2012 on Roundel Weekly:

Mmmmmmm.... So BMW will replace the "is" models with the M Performance lineup. But it's not really an M model as we know it, it sounds like a sort of lowercase m. What's wrong with GT? That used to represent the driving-lights-and-stripes variation and in some places (see Australian Mad Max Ford Falcons) they were the real thing.

M performance, when "m" is for more money

I know the alphabet only has 26 letters, but this seems to be taking the desperate-association- with-greatness thing a bit too far. It's the equivalent of fake hood scoops on '70 Dodges, which could be real on Hemi models.

Technically the M Performance line is slotted between the regular lineup and the true M GmbH***8211;developed high-power cars, and the M Performance models are said to be developed in collaboration with M. Back in Europe, the first M Performance offerings are the X5 M50d, the X6 M50d, and the M550d xDrive with a tri-turbocharged straight-six diesel engine, as well as the gas-powered M135 hatchback.

Turbodiesels have been added to the lineup, while the M135i replaces the slightly more powerful 1-series M, which was mangled nomenclature anyway. In future, there will be M Performance derivatives of various BMWs, including the 3-series coupe or 4-series, and the Z4.

***8220;We won***8217;t make the change right now as it would confuse customers, (no kidding!) but with the next model generation change, the successors of these models will be M Performance vehicles,***8221; said a BMW spokesman. Expect the Z4 M35i in 2015; the M335i (or M435i) will be launched next year.

The M Performance models don***8217;t follow the purist approach of the true M cars; the M135i, for example, comes with an optional torque-converter automatic instead of a dual-clutch transmission. Turbodiesels have conventional automatic gearboxes, and the chassis is developed from BMW***8217;s regular turbodiesels instead of employing M5, x5M or X6 improvemnets. The M Performance engines will come from non-M models.

What you can expect is that the M performance models will cost more than the base BMW series, so I think this M stands for More Money.***8211;***8211;Paul Duchene

Looks like my 2011 335is with DCT will be collectible?

 

[justinnum1]

doesnt need it with the ZF8

 

[GVIFlyer]

Interesting...

 

[dealio]

that sucks. I wanted a new "is" to replace my xi in a few years

but then there is this on the way.

M550d xDrive with a tri-turbocharged straight-six diesel engine

:yikes:

 

[beden1]

doesnt need it with the ZF8

Have you driven a car with a DCT? There is no comparison in your example.

 

[justinnum1]

Have you driven a car with a DCT? There is no comparison in your example.

Yes. Several times. M3 and 135i. In a car like the 335 i would take the ZF8 over the DCT everyday.

 

[beden1]

Yes. Several times. M3 and 135i. In a car like the 335 i would take the ZF8 over the DCT everyday.

Why? :dunno:

 

[justinnum1]

Why? :dunno:

Why not?

Shifts just as quick. Can skip multiple gears down shifting. Better fuel economy. Doesn't feel liks **** at slow speeds.

The ZF8 is superior to the DCT. Thats just my view. Some will agree, others will disagree.

 

[Michael Schott]

That's a very cynical article and not factually correct. The M package (not to be confused with the M cars) has always been more about looks than performance. And who said it will replace the is? Maybe this is a European package that we don't get in the US. The previous MSport did not have a DCT anyway.

 

[BentZero]

That's a very cynical article and not factually correct. The M package (not to be confused with the M cars) has always been more about looks than performance. And who said it will replace the is? Maybe this is a European package that we don't get in the US. The previous MSport did not have a DCT anyway.

I've read elsewhere that it would replace the is. Don't have a link to the article handy.

 

[beden1]

Why not?

Shifts just as quick. Can skip multiple gears down shifting. Better fuel economy. Doesn't feel liks **** at slow speeds.

The ZF8 is superior to the DCT. Thats just my view. Some will agree, others will disagree.

How do you do this with the ZF8 transmission?

 

[justinnum1]

How do you do this with the ZF8 transmission?

http://www.zf.com/media/media/img_1...tion/8hp/www_11_023884zfge_8HP_Produkt_EN.PDF

 

[beden1]

http://www.zf.com/media/media/img_1...tion/8hp/www_11_023884zfge_8HP_Produkt_EN.PDF

I read your link and it does not say anything about skipping gears. I don't see how this would be possible? The DCT is 7 speeds with 2 clutches. One for the odd gears and one for the even gears. One is always ready to engage and it would seemingly be able to shift quicker than your 8 speed transmission.

 

[Michael Schott]

I read your link and it does not say anything about skipping gears. I don't see how this would be possible? The DCT is 7 speeds with 2 clutches. One for the odd gears and one for the even gears. One is always ready to engage and it would seemingly be able to shift quicker than your 8 speed transmission.

It does say this on page 7 of the PDF: "Those who appreciate agility will be happy to know that the most modern adaptive shift strategies are used which enable direct skip-shifts over multiple gears, even allowing for extreme downshifts such as 8th gear to 2nd gear."

Not sure how this is done or how it works with the shifter or the paddles. Then again I don't know how this works with a DCT.

 

[beden1]

It does say this on page 7 of the PDF: "Those who appreciate agility will be happy to know that the most modern adaptive shift strategies are used which enable direct skip-shifts over multiple gears, even allowing for extreme downshifts such as 8th gear to 2nd gear."

Not sure how this is done or how it works with the shifter or the paddles. Then again I don't know how this works with a DCT.

Thanks. I didn't first see that page when I read it. I also don't undertand how this is possible unless perhaps it throws it into neutral before selecting the gear? But, and even though shifting from 8th to second gear would be an unusual event, it would have to take time for the RPMs to lower to enable that transition without over revving the engine?

 

[Elk]

"Those who appreciate agility will be happy to know that the most modern adaptive shift strategies are used which enable direct skip-shifts over multiple gears, even allowing for extreme downshifts such as 8th gear to 2nd gear."

While the transmission may be capable of skip-shifts, it appears to act solely sequentially in practice - not even a baby skip-shift.

Perhaps others have experienced the transmission performing something more interesting.

 

[justinnum1]

Im not sure exactly how it works, all i know is its fast as ****. I couldn't tell a difference in shift speeds between the DTC and ZF8. and i drive them back to back. Both are nice transmissions, but on a sedan that will spend most of the time on the road i think the ZF is the superior choice.

 

[GVIFlyer]

Why not?

Shifts just as quick. Can skip multiple gears down shifting. Better fuel economy. Doesn't feel liks **** at slow speeds.

The torque converter based ZF transmission is in no way as good a performance transmission as the Getrag 7 speed dual clutch transmission (DCT) found on the M3/335is. The DCT is fundamentally two manual transmissions (each with its own clutch) housed within one unit and working as a single transmission. If the ZF were as good, both cars would use it (as would the McLaren MP4-12C) instead of the Getrag ... and one would really have to drink the Kool-Aid to think that the ZF shifts as fast as the Getrag. The ZF trans can achieve 200 milisecond shifts - the Getrag does it in 8 milliseconds. By ZF's own admission, the objective of the transmission is achieve a 6% fuel efficiency savings.

I have no idea what you're referencing when you are critical of the Getrag's low speed operational characteristics.

The ZF8 is superior to the DCT. Thats just my view. Some will agree, others will disagree.

Put me in the disagree column. If the Getrag DCT wasn't available in the 335is when I purchased it, I would have been forced to buy a M3 just to get it.

 

[Elk]

I have no idea what you're referencing when you are critical of the Getrag's low speed operational characteristics.

Many find the shifts harsh at low speed/light throttle. It is a tradeoff for its excellent characteristics when the car is driven more aggressively.

 

[justinnum1]

The torque converter based ZF transmission is in no way as good a performance transmission as the Getrag 7 speed dual clutch transmission (DCT) found on the M3/335is. The DCT is fundamentally two manual transmissions (each with its own clutch) housed within one unit and working as a single transmission. If the ZF were as good, both cars would use it (as would the McLaren MP4-12C) instead of the Getrag ... and one would really have to drink the Kool-Aid to think that the ZF shifts as fast as the Getrag. The ZF trans can achieve 200 milisecond shifts - the Getrag does it in 8 milliseconds. By ZF's own admission, the objective of the transmission is achieve a 6% fuel efficiency savings.

I have no idea what you're referencing when you are critical of the Getrag's low speed operational characteristics.

Put me in the disagree column. If the Getrag DCT wasn't available in the 335is when I purchased it, I would have been forced to buy a M3 just to get it.

Where did you see the gertag does it in 8 milliseconds? thats .008 seconds...i doubt it shifts faster than a forumla 1 car.

Actually i looked it up, and the gertag does not do it in 8 milliseconds, but 100 milliseconds.