BimmerFest BMW Forum banner
1 - 20 of 29 Posts

·
Now with Nano
Joined
·
1,310 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I don't believe this. I just got spanked pretty good by a jaguar S type through my favorite canyon road. this is a road with lots of tight twisty turns that I know I can go really fast through. at first I wasn't going too fast because just 5 minutes before I was fiddling with the radio and curbed TWO rims. needless to say I was bummed already. plus I was low on gas so I wasn't going through the canyon at what I consider my 100%. so anyway, I see this jag catch up to me and I didn't think much of it at first. I started pushing it a little more to increase the distance between us but he would catch up. then suddenly he disappeard so I drove slowly thinking that he might have driven over the edge. I even slowed down to a crawl and nothing. so I went on my way at about 60% and he catches me AGAIN. so this happens another two or three times (he was obviously stopping, waiting then going again). I'd have let him pass but he would never stay behind long enough. I had slowed a few times to try and see where he was but he dropped WAY back there and I cold see nothing even on some of the streatchs where I had decent visibility. after the second time he caught me, I picked up my pace to about 90% but I couldn't get a lead on him. anyway, I finally signaled to him to get him to pass me. I tried to keep up but couldn't. these are tight roads and trying to go too fast only slows you down. I was accelerating hard out of the corners and late braking as much as I could but it was no use. anyway, after he got a decent lead on me, I gave up and dropped back down to about my 70% pace. the guy pulled away from me as if I was driving an old caprice classic with bald tires. while this is my favorite road and I do drive it frequently, I always drive southbound. I don't care for the north bound run as it's more dangerous because it's the outside lane and has more blind corners. this guy was either a really good driver or I've been underestimating jaguars all my life or both. I know I'm not the best driver in the world but this certainly made me feel like one of the worst! DAMN!!!!!
 

·
Now with Nano
Joined
·
1,310 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
horsepower won't help you on this road. in fact, I'd be more at ease if I was spanked by a front wheel drive stock honda.
 

·
Now with Nano
Joined
·
1,310 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
the only parts where I pulled ahead was coming out of the corners so I don't think horspower helped him at all.

I will say this, though. when he got in front of me, I could see that he wasn't applying the brakes much but I was. I thin khis driving technique had a lot to do with it as well because I know that I can drive through that road fast and catch up with many speeding cars myself.
 

·
I like cookies.
Joined
·
18,102 Posts
Well, if it was a Type-R, it would have a suspension to match. Supposedly on par with an M5. When the S type was under development, it was rumored to be dynamically superior to the E39...but, I don't think that came about

Sounds to me like a Type-R or a very, very good driver...
 

·
Now with Nano
Joined
·
1,310 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
well, mabye. like I said, lots of tight twisty turns and where we were dueling it out was through the tightest twistiest part. I think the bigger the car, the harder it would be to get though, no matter if it was an R or an M5.
 

·
Now with Nano
Joined
·
1,310 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
when I used to race 600cc class on a Honda Hurricane 600 (1987 and 1988 racing seasons) at sears point, there were plenty of people riding 250 ninjas that could spank the larger faster bikes because sears point isn't a horsepower track. it takes much more effort to get a larger bike through the turns. and I think the same can be said about cars. this is why I'm still stunned by this. :yikes:
 

·
.
Joined
·
600 Posts
31st330i said:
when I used to race 600cc class on a Honda Hurricane 600 (1987 and 1988 racing seasons) at sears point, there were plenty of people riding 250 ninjas that could spank the larger faster bikes because sears point isn't a horsepower track.
well there's a couple things to be said about your analogy... IMO there are a lot of people in the 600 class who shouldn't be racing [no offense to you]. i think 250 racers are people who are really serious about developing their racing skills/careers.

also 250s hold a big weight advantage over the 600s. corner speed can get you far at Sears Point, but I don't think that would be the case at a track like Laguna.

anyway getting back to your spanking, it sounds to me like it was probably a combination of suspension and driving technique that made the difference.

kurt
 

·
Now with Nano
Joined
·
1,310 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
no doubt. I hardly drive that road northbound and it seems like a different road from southbound.

I don't know jags very well so I don't even know which model it was and have no idea as to what kind of suspension it had.

he definitly didn't seem to have a HP advantage because the only places I pulled ahead of him was coming out of turns.
 

·
Ex-Dictator
Joined
·
26,111 Posts
From your post, I can say that the 3.0 L S-Type has minor chance to cope with the 330i , especially in a twisty road like that.

So, it may have been either the new S Type R or S Typ Sport. Did you notice a rear spoiler lip on the trunk lid ? The S Type R has that spoiler lip, on the Sport version it's optional.

The S Type Sport has a V8 engine with 298 hp, the S Type R has also a V8 engine but with 395 hp (both Euro versions)
 

·
A sudden sense of liberty
Joined
·
3,939 Posts
Alex Baumann said:
From your post, I can say that the 3.0 L S-Type has minor chance to cope with the 330i , especially in a twisty road like that.

So, it may have been either the new S Type R or S Typ Sport. Did you notice a rear spoiler lip on the trunk lid ? The S Type R has that spoiler lip, on the Sport version it's optional.

The S Type Sport has a V8 engine with 298 hp, the S Type R has also a V8 engine but with 395 hp (both Euro versions)
Actually, the lighter 3.0L is no slouch through the twisties. 31st330 said that he pulled away only through the corners, so the 240 hp six might have been all this guy had. FWIW, the 3.0L is now available in the US with a 5 speed Getrag manual transmission, though I don't know if any of those have actually reached the US yet. With the new interior and the manual transmission, the desirability of the S-type has shot up about 1000 percent.

The S-type is not a bad car. People dismiss it as being just a Ford, but the chassis tuning of the DEW 98 platform (especially in its Jaguar variants) is world-class (I think its easy, especially for Americans, to overlook the fact that Ford builds some of the best handling mainstream cars in the world, such as the Focus, Mondeo and Puma). It might not have quite the driver involving feel of the E39, but with the big P Zeros that Jaguar offers it can handle with the best of them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,487 Posts
JST said:


Actually, the lighter 3.0L is no slouch through the twisties.
Hmmm... What about the whole weight thing? Don't you think it's too much weight to throw around in the twisties? (S-Type V6 - 3,816lbs).

Since weight is BAD, and plays a key role, especially in the twisties, I can only think the S-Type in question was a V8. The V6 version has GOT to be a pig @ 3,816lbs.

PS: While I agree Focus and Puma handle very well, the Mondeo does NOT handle as well. Hertz gave me Mondeo's in my last 2 business trips to the UK, and compared to the E46, it kind of sucks.
 

·
A sudden sense of liberty
Joined
·
3,939 Posts
A lighter S-type would clearly handle better. So what?

Comparing a Mondeo to an E46 is silly. Compare the Mondeo to the Vectra, or the Jetta. I've not driven a new Mondeo (which has received universal adulation in the handling department), but I did own two Contours (which are basically the same thing, chassis-wise, as the old Mondeo) and those were very well composed cars. I had both the 1996 SE and the 1998 SVT, and would characterize the handling of each as excellent, given that they were essentially mainstream FWD econoboxes. There was certainly nothing at the price point that could touch either one; they chewed up Jettas and spit them out.

Rental cars, which generally have very low spec, the puniest engine/tire combo, and the limpest suspension setting in the range, are not a good sample. A base model 325 (non-SP) handles like crap, too, but that doesn't mean that the SP 325 is a bad car.

ALEX325i said:


Hmmm... What about the whole weight thing? Don't you think it's too much weight to throw around in the twisties? (S-Type V6 - 3,816lbs).

Since weight is BAD, and plays a key role, especially in the twisties, I can only think the S-Type in question was a V8. The V6 version has GOT to be a pig @ 3,816lbs.

PS: While I agree Focus and Puma handle very well, the Mondeo does NOT handle as well. Hertz gave me Mondeo's in my last 2 business trips to the UK, and compared to the E46, it kind of sucks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,487 Posts
JST said:
A lighter S-type would clearly handle better. So what?

So what??? Well, I guess you agree that the S-Type in question HAS to be a V8 then. No way the V6 version would spank a 330 through a canyon weighing in at 3,816lbs...

Comparing a Mondeo to an E46 is silly. Compare the Mondeo to the Vectra, or the Jetta. I've not driven a new Mondeo (which has received universal adulation in the handling department), but I did own two Contours (which are basically the same thing, chassis-wise, as the old Mondeo) and those were very well composed cars. I had both the 1996 SE and the 1998 SVT, and would characterize the handling of each as excellent, given that they were essentially mainstream FWD econoboxes. There was certainly nothing at the price point that could touch either one; they chewed up Jettas and spit them out.
Silly? I don't think so... After all, you were referring to "world-class" chassis and handling...

Rental cars, which generally have very low spec, the puniest engine/tire combo, and the limpest suspension setting in the range, are not a good sample. A base model 325 (non-SP) handles like crap, too, but that doesn't mean that the SP 325 is a bad car.
325 non-SP handles like crap... Hmmm... Whatever.
 

·
A sudden sense of liberty
Joined
·
3,939 Posts
ALEX325i said:


So what??? Well, I guess you agree that the S-Type in question HAS to be a V8 then. No way the V6 version would spank a 330 through a canyon weighing in at 3,816lbs...



Silly? I don't think so... After all, you were referring to "world-class" chassis and handling...



325 non-SP handles like crap... Hmmm... Whatever.


"World class" doesn't mean "can outhandle any car in the world regardless of market position or price point." A Jaguar (or Mondeo) does not have to be able to spank a 911 GT2 around the 'Ring to have "world class" handling. You should always compare a car to its competitors, and judge it by that metric.

The Mondeo (and the Contour) was and is one of the best handling mainstream cars in the world, and I will stand by that statement. Judged against cars that cost the same and have the same intent, very few of its competitors can touch it. End of story, in my opinion. Does it outhandle a 330, or a Ferrari F355? No, but who the hell cross-shops those cars?

And a 323/325 without the SP does handle like crap. To quote TD, it drives like a Buick. The inherent balance BMW is so (deservedly) famous for is slathered over with springs and damping that are too soft and tires that are not capable. Body roll is excessive, and the car generally feels uninvolving. It's amazing what the SP does for the E46.

Having driven both extensively, as between the CSVT and the 325i non SP, I'd pick the Contour every time. It's just more fun.

But until you've driven an SVT Contour, you wouldn't know what I'm talking about.
 
1 - 20 of 29 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top