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aioros
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Here are a couple of pictures showing the coolant temperature, in my case, it's the EVANS NPG+ waterless coolant.
It did not deviate from there

 

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Something is VERY wrong here. The Temp gauge shows "normal" temp, while the digital readout shows 60 deg F. The gauge is designed to reach 12 0'clock when the engine temp reaches 75 deg C.

A good scan tool will allow you to read coolant temp in real time. An IR thermometer can be used to measure engine, rad, and hose temps.
 

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Seek to understand,^Value
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Something is VERY wrong here
I also don't understand an engine DTS temperature of 60°F while the averaging gauge (also from the DTS) shows 'normal'.

Especially since normal, for me anyway, is over 93°C.

The double temperature sensor (DTS) should measure two similar temperatures, one for the averaging gauge and (depending on the position of the key), two for the cluster display.
- What is the coolant temperature of an E39 (I6 or V8) under normal operating condition

Perhaps your DTS is bad, as happened over here where one reading was different than the other:
OBC's hidden menu shows temperature from the sensor that goes to the DME only when car is running or when ignition key is in position 2. But the hidden menu switches to the same sensor that the needle gauge uses then you put key to position 1. This happens at least with high cluster. This allows you to compare the readings between these sensor, they should show about the same value.

I accidentally discovered this when I searched a reason for low temperature readings. I already had changed thermostat and that did not help. One day I noticed that temperature was 88C when my car was running but immediately changed to 95C when I switched ignition key to position 1 and went again back to 88 in position 2. I disconnected the DTS connector and now in ignition position 2. OBC showed -128C and in position 1. -30C. I think this verifies that those reading are both coming from the DTS but from different sensors.

I changed the DTS to a new one and now both readings are the same or there is a 1C difference between them. Usually value seems to be 95C with range between 94-97C.
 

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aioros
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890 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
60 degrees is the outside temperature.
97 degrees is the coolant temperature
7 is the test mode number
 

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aioros, what were your driving conditions when that pic was taken? I'd be interested to know your engine temp readout after spending awhile in congested traffic on a warm day, or some lively driving at highway speeds in the mountains.


Oh yeah.... know what your temps were on average before the changeover to NPG+?
 

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D'oh! I'm accustomed to looking at the high cluster.
 

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aioros
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
D'oh! I'm accustomed to looking at the high cluster.
:bustingup that's what I thought :thumbup:

I don't know the temp for oem coolant, I never did that test before :(
Driving conditions were: city driving with no traffic on a cool morning, thus the 60F degrees outside temperature. But I will run the test during this summer to see how it goes :thumbup:
 

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Under the lift arms
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Were u expecting something special with evens ?
 

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Under the lift arms
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There won't be when the engine is cold ...... I'm confused with problem here
 

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aioros, what were your driving conditions when that pic was taken? I'd be interested to know your engine temp readout after spending awhile in congested traffic on a warm day, or some lively driving at highway speeds in the mountains.
Oh yeah.... know what your temps were on average before the changeover to NPG+?
Check Chiefwej's thread - I did it a zero pressure cooling system. He lives in the desert where the temps are the hottest. If look up that thread he mentioned he tested the system and that the temperature readings are a tad lower then compared to the regular 50/50 coolant mix

There won't be when the engine is cold ...... I'm confused with problem here
You are confused. NPG+ is a zero pressure system whether the engine is hot or cold, because the boiling of the NPG+ is so high. It does not boil and therefore the hoses are soft with a hot engine (aka no pressure). Chiefwej in the thread mentioned above was able to remove the cap from the expansion tank with a hot engine, running, and nothing came out (spills, due to pressure).
 

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Under the lift arms
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Wait wait wait, your expecting not to get a boil over if u open a hot system ???
 

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Older than old school
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There was a lively and exhaustive, albeit old, discussion in the RX-7 forum here http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=99933. They found slightly elevated coolant temperatures on track days, running turbocharged engines, but no one reported any problems resulting from the heat. There was a lot of speculation about oil temperatures, but nothing conclusive. This was apparently before Evans brought out the racing formulation. Here's a quote:

Took the car on a road track yesterday with Evans for the first time. I was very pleased with the results. Temps were close to 100 and we did 5 20 min sessions. The first 2 sessions I actually ran with the windows up and AC on. Temps reached 230 peak. But nothing to worry about with Evans.The last 3 were all out with AC off and my temps peaked at 222. I was driving very hard under some fairly extreme conditions the full 20 mins. I am very pleased with these results.

Here are my reasons for using Evans:

1. Zero pressure, much less chance for failure. You really lower you chance of failure down to T-stat and water pump. With little to no stress on the hoses/clamps chances are you won't blow them.
2. Very high boiling point. Many benifits here. No localized boiling, no loss of coolant due to boil over, and less stress on system. Once temps get into the 220s+ with regular water mixes, cooling effeciency drops dramaticly as temps rise making the situation detrimental very fast.
3. Less corrosion. Not that big of a deal in my book. Just flush regularly.

Reasons for not using Evans:

1. Cost. At $22 or so a gallon, it aint that cheap. Need about 3.5 gallons for my FD with Koyo rad. I still think I will end up flushing once a year because we all know that a rotary cooling system gets contaminated.
2. If you need to add coolant, you can't just put water in! Better have some Evans around just in case.
 

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aioros
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
There was a lively and exhaustive, albeit old, discussion in the RX-7 forum here http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=99933. They found slightly elevated coolant temperatures on track days, running turbocharged engines, but no one reported any problems resulting from the heat. There was a lot of speculation about oil temperatures, but nothing conclusive. This was apparently before Evans brought out the racing formulation. Here's a quote:

Took the car on a road track yesterday with Evans for the first time. I was very pleased with the results. Temps were close to 100 and we did 5 20 min sessions. The first 2 sessions I actually ran with the windows up and AC on. Temps reached 230 peak. But nothing to worry about with Evans.The last 3 were all out with AC off and my temps peaked at 222. I was driving very hard under some fairly extreme conditions the full 20 mins. I am very pleased with these results.

Here are my reasons for using Evans:

1. Zero pressure, much less chance for failure. You really lower you chance of failure down to T-stat and water pump. With little to no stress on the hoses/clamps chances are you won't blow them.
2. Very high boiling point. Many benifits here. No localized boiling, no loss of coolant due to boil over, and less stress on system. Once temps get into the 220s+ with regular water mixes, cooling effeciency drops dramaticly as temps rise making the situation detrimental very fast.
3. Less corrosion. Not that big of a deal in my book. Just flush regularly.

Reasons for not using Evans:

1. Cost. At $22 or so a gallon, it aint that cheap. Need about 3.5 gallons for my FD with Koyo rad. I still think I will end up flushing once a year because we all know that a rotary cooling system gets contaminated.
2. If you need to add coolant, you can't just put water in! Better have some Evans around just in case.
+1 :supdude: thank you :supdude:
 

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BMW 640D F06 2018 MSports 313BHP
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Hi all,

I've OEM coolant and my coolant temp stays on 94 all the time when I am driving. So this mean NPG and OEM coolant temps have no differences?
 

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Older than old school
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Hi all,

I've OEM coolant and my coolant temp stays on 94 all the time when I am driving. So this mean NPG and OEM coolant temps have no differences?
Under most conditions, it seems that there's a negligible difference in engine temps. The significant difference is that the Evans is able to maintain that temp at atmospheric pressure because it doesn't vaporize until it gets to about 268 degrees C (375F). At the very least, this would almost eliminate the possibility of a catastrophic burst hose.
 

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aioros
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890 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Hi all,

I've OEM coolant and my coolant temp stays on 94 all the time when I am driving. So this mean NPG and OEM coolant temps have no differences?
They are different, in many ways.
For starters:
-OEM coolant is 50% water/50% coolant
-NPG+ is 100% coolant

-OEM coolant will build up pressure when hot
-NPG+ does not build up pressure

some more info here:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=432457

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=531458
 

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Older than old school
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Wait wait wait, your expecting not to get a boil over if u open a hot system ???
That's the case with the Evans, because the Evans doesn't boil (vaporize) until it gets to 375 F. Since it's able to maintain temps well below that, there's no chance of boiling.
 
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