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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
All,

Relatively new to these forums, so I'm sorry if this question has been asked. I purchased a new 5 series back in Mid December and I'm wondering what are the pros and cons of getting my oil changed say at 2,000 miles is vs waiting until the 10,000-mile mark to do it. The former will come out of pocket, which is no big deal, while the latter is part of my service plan. I've always changed the oil in all of the new cars that I've purchased once I've reached the 1K or 2K mile mark but since this is my first BMW/Premium Vehicle, your input would be greatly
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appreciated. Cheers.
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If/when you do oil change before 10k, ask shop not to reset it as your dealer will refuse free oil change stating car doesn't need it....I learned it hard way.

Btw every 5k is good oil change interval.
Hello Mark. What do you mean by "not to reset it"? Also, how will the BMW dealership know? The brand of oil filter? The sticker that the shop puts on the windshield?
 

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Hello Mark. What do you mean by "not to reset it"? Also, how will the BMW dealership know? The brand of oil filter? The sticker that the shop puts on the windshield?
BMWs have "condition-based services" or CBS. The fob gets information on maintenance flashed to it from the car. The Service Advisor can see what maintenance services are needed by reding your key fob. If you reset oil change (lets say at 5k) on car computer CBS will not read (CBS) BMW paid oil change service untill 10k from last reset.

Hope this helps to clarify it.
 

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It is your money so you're free to waste it however you please...

The 10K mile service interval is more than adequate so you can leave it be. Much better things to waste your money on IMHO.
 
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It is your money so you're free to waste it however you please...

The 10K mile service interval is more than adequate so you can leave it be. Much better things to waste your money on IMHO.
It is "adequate" if you want to keep car only untill warranty expires otherwise it is cheap ($100-150) way to ensure you turbo and internals are in great shape beyond 50k miles mark.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
BMWs have "condition-based services" or CBS. The fob gets information on maintenance flashed to it from the car. The Service Advisor can see what maintenance services are needed by reding your key fob. If you reset oil change (lets say at 5k) on car computer CBS will not read (CBS) BMW paid oil change service untill 10k from last reset.

Hope this helps to clarify it.
Gotcha. Thanks.
 

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All,

Relatively new to these forums, so I'm sorry if this question has been asked. I purchased a new 5 series back in Mid December and I'm wondering what are the pros and cons of getting my oil changed say at 2,000 miles is vs waiting until the 10,000-mile mark to do it. The former will come out of pocket, which is no big deal, while the latter is part of my service plan. I've always changed the oil in all of the new cars that I've purchased once I've reached the 1K or 2K mile mark but since this is my first BMW/Premium Vehicle, your input would be greatly View attachment 1050912
appreciated. Cheers.
View attachment 1050909
id change every 5k with a name brand 5w40 oil, my 530i has 220k miles using castrol 5w40
 

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Things are breaking in and wearing together; engines don’t come “pre-broken-in” as much as modern folklore claims. This is why you’ll see improvements in efficiency over the first several thousand miles. We bought a new 2021 Chrysler last year, and it’s first oil change at almost 1000k miles showed more metal in it on a UOA than my Bimmer with 186k miles. Drive fairly aggressively over the first 100 miles to build cylinder pressure and seat the rings, and you won’t have oil consumption issues. You’ll also get the most metal wear during this time.

Oil change at 1000 miles, then at 5k, and every 5k thereafter. If you’re only driving a few miles each day and never letting oil get up to temperature, change even more frequently. But, I’m the type who keeps machines until they turn back into dirt.

I built an engine for my VW last summer: first oil change after 15 minutes run-time to seat the rings (new pistons, cylinders, heads, valvetrain, oil pump, etc)., second after 100 miles. Both oils drained out full of glitter. 3rd oil change at 500 miles was much cleaner, and now with nearly 1000k miles on the 4th fill of oil (which was also switched to full synthetic), looks beautiful on the dipstick. Engine performance and efficiency has been improving the entire time.

Don’t forget new ATF at 15-20k miles, as the majority of transmission wear occurs during this time. Trans filters don’t have a high filtration rate. With the temperatures that automakers run the transmissions at these days, fluid is toast by 50k miles of mild driving. After numerous warranty claims, GM has recently issued a revised AT thermostat for the 6L80/90 (with revisions to the 8 and 10s forthcoming), lowing the operating temp by a whopping 40*F, for example.


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It is "adequate" if you want to keep car only untill warranty expires otherwise it is cheap ($100-150) way to ensure you turbo and internals are in great shape beyond 50k miles mark.
Modern engines running on fully synthetic like the G30 are perfectly fine at 10k miles. Changing oil every 1K miles like OP is claiming is a waste so is 5K miles. People just pull out random numbers on when to change oil. Apparently BMW is wrong, but random intervals from habits built up decades ago on different engines and different oils is correct. Might as well change the oil before every drive 🤣…

I have yet to see a blackstone oil analysis that the 10k interval on these cars is incorrect and more frequent changes are needed.

But it is your money to waste how you please.
 
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Tell that to the countless modern engines exhibiting sludge or timing chain issues. I've got to start on a sludged 145k mile Volvo with no oil pressure on Friday that got that way on 3k mile/year oil changes; yeah only 6 miles a day through NY winters will do that. A couple of years ago, my friend (who is an expert marine mechanic) had to pull the heads on his LS Silverado because the fuel pump's cam lobe wiped, despite 3k mile semi-synthetic oil changes, at only 220k miles. LS engines are about as bullet-proof as they come. VW 1.8s, 2.0s, Ford engines going back to the introduction of VCT in 2004, etc. Stretching OCI on a multi-displacement or turbo engine doesn't tend to end well. ;)

BMW was certainly wrong when they were selling 15k mile OCI on cars a decade ago, to the point they backed down to 10k, and have always been wrong with "lifetime" fluids on various drivetrain parts. The engineers don't dictate the OCI, the marketing department does. Reduced maintenance sells cars, end of story. Mike Miller has said the same.

But hey, save money on oil changes, then put my kids through college. Works for me! ;)
 

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Tell that to the countless modern engines exhibiting sludge or timing chain issues. I've got to start on a sludged 145k mile Volvo with no oil pressure on Friday that got that way on 3k mile/year oil changes; yeah only 6 miles a day through NY winters will do that. A couple of years ago, my friend (who is an expert marine mechanic) had to pull the heads on his LS Silverado because the fuel pump's cam lobe wiped, despite 3k mile semi-synthetic oil changes, at only 220k miles. LS engines are about as bullet-proof as they come. VW 1.8s, 2.0s, Ford engines going back to the introduction of VCT in 2004, etc.

BMW was certainly wrong when they were selling 15k mile OCI on cars a decade ago, to the point they backed down to 10k, and have always been wrong with "lifetime" fluids on various drivetrain parts. The engineers don't dictate the OCI, the marketing department does. Reduced maintenance sells cars, end of story. Mike Miller has said the same.

But hey, save money on oil changes, then put my kids through college. Works for me! ;)
So what is your recommendation the Volvo? 1K mile oil changes? 50 mile oil changes?

BMW is motivated to push the OCI as far into the future they can get away with less for marketing I’d argue and more for savings. They have 3Y/36K mile free maintenance so if they can do less and save money the would. But the other side of that reality is their warranty costs. If they push them far enough that they impair reliability they’ll be footing that bill... Remember BMW offers unlimited mileage CPO warranties that can be covering a motor for 7Y or so from the in service date…

10K mile OCI is very common among cars built to high standards with fully synthetic oil. My W204 Mercedes had a 10K/1Y OCI and ran like a charm. I sold it with over 90K miles on the standard OCI and it went through lots of Philly city driving a lots of winters both in Philly and in Southern Ontario.

I’d wager that the electrical complexity of my car will be a problem for me far sooner than any engine issues from the 10K/1Y OCI.

I could understand the recommendation for shorter OCI if people posted data from Blackstone or the like showing problems with the 10K OCI, but I haven’t seen that. Random numbers “just because it feels better” seems silly to me.
 

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Given the driving style of the Volvo, yes, a 1k mile OCI would not have been unreasonable, because 3k clearly didn't cut it; if sticking with 3k, I'd replace 20% with Marvel mystery oil. The best oil in the world is useless if the vehicle is trashed with a short operation distance, because water doesn't leave the sump; the finest full synthetic doesn't change that.

90k miles? Pshhh that's barely broken in. Vegetable oil can get a NA BMW there, it's 2, 3, 400k+ miles where a few little changes mean the world of difference. Don't forget that VW stated a 7500 mile OCI on its air cooled boxer engines back in the 1970s; you know, the ones that didn't even have oil filters.

Any manufacturer's OCI is designed to get past the warranty, and BMW knows that an overwhelming majority of owners are not going to keep their cars indefinitely. I'd posit that most people who buy new BMWs need clout, and no clapped out, 2nd or 3rd generation-old car will exude that, so they'll trade up long before any warranty claims come around.

Ford claims 10k on its motors and yeah, the OCI will usually get past the warranty period, but the engines can eat their timing chains by 100k miles. I've seen 33k mile engines sludged to hell eat their chains, despite being dealer serviced "on time." GM LT engines have been exhibiting a rash of lifter failures/seizures in their V8 trucks that run 0w-20, much more so than the V6s or the cars that run the same V8s, that run 5w-30. They've also since issued an updated ATF thermostat that lowers transmission operating temp by 40*F (conveniently after most 6L80/90s are out of warranty). If the manufacturer can't be trusted to get the oil grade or operating temperature correct, why should they be trusted to get a service interval correct, when their sole purpose goal is planned obsolescence to get you back in the door? Reliability doesn't sell vehicles, only the perception of it, as Mercedes discovered with the W123.

An oil change costs under $40 for a BMW with a 7 quart sump; buying a new car, especially a BMW, every few years is a far greater waste of money than a couple of extra bucks a year to keep it going for decades. JMO of course, because I still use a '70 VW as a commuter/knock-around at one of my houses. ;)

So there you go, OP. Weigh it all.
 

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An oil change costs under $40 for a BMW with a 7 quart sump; buying a new car, especially a BMW, every few years is a far greater waste of money than a couple of extra bucks a year to keep it going for decades. JMO of course, because I still use a '70 VW as a commuter/knock-around at one of my houses. ;)
Thanks for the detailed write up.

If I were planning to own my car for 20+ years with a goal of maximizing its longevity during that time span I would have regular oil analysis conducted by Blackstone at each oil change. As the only way to know if the OCI isn’t working for you or if conditions warrant adjustments is to have hard data to back it up with. Otherwise, going from 10K OCI to a 5K OCI could be insufficient and so could going down to a 100 mile OCI or you could just be pissing money into the wind. To me the insurance would come from the oil analysis and not unwarranted oil changes.

Data should inform decisions. :)

That said, I agree I think OP has enough data to make a very informed decision!
 

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Modern engines running on fully synthetic like the G30 are perfectly fine at 10k miles. Changing oil every 1K miles like OP is claiming is a waste so is 5K miles. People just pull out random numbers on when to change oil. Apparently BMW is wrong, but random intervals from habits built up decades ago on different engines and different oils is correct. Might as well change the oil before every drive 🤣…

I have yet to see a blackstone oil analysis that the 10k interval on these cars is incorrect and more frequent changes are needed.

But it is your money to waste how you please.
So I disagree but that’s perfectly fine! I’d like to present my evidence as mostly anecdotal but leaning towards the intervals being too long. I’d like you to consider the possibility and happy to try and sway you if I can.
B engines are seeming to have fuel dilution issues and sludging IS being seen in the oil filter caps with my own eyes.
BMW is very up front about lifetime fluids but that just means they are manufacturing vehicles to last 100k as that’s what’s considered lifetime. A quick example is ZF transmission are lifetime full but ZF themselves state that the fluid needs changed. When you combine this with BMWs past history of engine problems you might start to form the picture that oil intervals may be pushing the limits of protection for the trade off of cost management and CAFE.
The earliest I personally can remember is M54 which either dies by being overheated or the “rings go” but the “rings going” is actually a failure of the oil control ring caused by improper lubrication over time which wears the rings and scores the cylinder walls.
The next good example is the notorious N63 which BMW themselves have shortened the intervals on AFTER THE FACT as well as changing the oil quantity going in the engines not to mention the countless engines being replaced for low compression which again is directly related to lubrication and heat management.
The next one is the notorious N20 which suffers from stretched chains, failing guides and wear on the oil pump sprocket causing whining noise. Many people think the chain slack causes the while but they are incorrect. While it’s not good the oil pump sprocket wear is the hair dryer noise that’s synonymous with N20 lubrication problems.
The next example is N55 which is known to lock up under extreme cold temperatures or fail shortly after oil changes or oil related repairs which only occurs on high mileage vehicles and BMW won’t accept responsibility for. They state techs aren’t priming the oil circuit but plenty do get primed and still lock up. None of these issues occurred when N55 was running good old castrol 5W30 but the EPA made BMW remove the zinc and phosphorous due to poisoning catalytic converters. A quick google search will confirm that zinc and phosphorous are the 2 main wear prevention additives in oil but since we can’t use that any more we load it up with molybdenum and additive packages to combat high intervals and oils designed to be a compromise between CAFE, federal emission standards and wear instead of what’s best for the vehicles longevity.
The N55s that don’t die in this fashion normally wind up setting “calculated air mass plausibility” faults which is a measurement of internal drag on the engine ( confirmed with an SIB ) and therefore basically a worn out engine again due to long life and poor lubrication.
B- engines now are great and I’m a HUGE fan but I fear the intervals are again ludicrous as I’m seeing sludge in oil caps, fuel dilution is high on blackstone reports but the KV100 numbers are still robust which basically means sludge. As fuel dilutes the oil it goes from a 0/20 to like 0/15 or less but the reports show oil still maintaining a 0/20 KV100 reading which means viscosity is going up ( sludging or particles added to the oil as viscosity by definition is “resistance to flow” but I ask if oil is being diluted how can it still have the same viscosity? Think about it.
Finally I defer to @edycol if he doesn’t mind as he worked in oil development in EU and we’ve had many wonderful conversations on oil and I trust his insights.
So again much of this is anecdotal and some of this is hard to prove but the evidence seems to point in one direction. I think it’s cheap insurance to keep my 60k dollar+ ride going by changing the oil more frequently that BMW recommends. There is a possibility that your correct and I’m wasting my money but there’s also a possibly your incorrect. I let history, my experience and the knowledge of others guide my opinions and let’s be honest I sleep better thinking I’m doing the “right thing”.
 
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