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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just wanted to get some feedback from other twin turbo v8 owners(N63/S63) regarding oil consumption. How much does your car drink? I do a bit of spirited city driving and i'm told that i could go through about 2 quarts every 1k miles even if the car is not leaking anything. Supposedly BMW has a service bulletin claiming that this is normal and not a defect that is attributed to poor engineering.



Engine Oil Consumption
Technical Service SI B11 03 13

Oil Consumption specification:
- All BMW engines (excluding Motorsport) can consume up to 1 quart of engine oil per 750 miles at any time.
- Due to the increased engine power, all Motorsport engines can consume up to 2.5 quarts of engine oil per 1,000 miles at any time.

All turbocharged engines also require a complex crankcase ventilation system. The crankcase ventilation system needs to maintain a small vacuum on the crankcase and not allow the crankcase to be pressurized. Pressurizing the engine crankcase can lead to external engine oil leaks and increased engine oil consumption via the piston rings and valve seals. When the load and the boost level of a turbocharged engine is varied, the path of the crankcase pressure is changed. During the crankcase ventilation path transition, a small amount of engine oil will pass through the crankcase ventilation system and is additionally consumed. The additional engine oil consumption of a turbocharged engine, as compared to a normally aspirated engine, is normal and not a defect.


Engine oil: Topping up

When one of the above vehicles displays a message to add 1 quart of engine oil, BMW recommends adding 2 quarts of engine oil instead. The engine's oil sump design allows the additional quart; the result is a total capacity of 9.5 quarts (9.0 liters) of engine oil.
 

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Luck of the draw....
 

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If the car has done a lot of stop and go low speed driving for 54K miles it might be possible the valve stem seals have seen enough operating hours to harden and lose their ability to seal. This is a common failure on the V8 but at 54K I'm not going to say this is your problem. It would have to be looked at in order to rule it in or out. Replacing V8 valve stem seals is too expensive to just try and see it it helps.

Do you have the car's maintenance and repair records or can you get them? It would really help to know if the car has gone through oil consumption testing before and or has been in the service department before with engine problems. Did the dealer tell you the Customer Care Package (CCP) recall was done? Some early N63 engines have a history of high oil consumption and have had their engines replaced.
 

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OP:

I am just shy of 130,000 miles on 2012 5.0. I had the n63 CCP done. No other related work. I use a quart every 1000-1500 miles.

>75% of my driving is rural highway with posted limits of 70-75 where I run steady at 80-90 mph, faster in known territory.

Around town I often keep rpm up in sport mode with paddle shift.

I believe these engines are happier when not loafing.

I average 20-22mpg
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
OP:

I am just shy of 130,000 miles on 2012 5.0. I had the n63 CCP done. No other related work. I use a quart every 1000-1500 miles.

>75% of my driving is rural highway with posted limits of 70-75 where I run steady at 80-90 mph, faster in known territory.

Around town I often keep rpm up in sport mode with paddle shift.

I believe these engines are happier when not loafing.

I average 20-22mpg
I average 11.5 mpg and my average speed is about 13 mph. Only downtown Chicago. My gas burn rate is best measured in boat time sitting in traffic and then shooting off the line; about 4 dollars an hour.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
If the car has done a lot of stop and go low speed driving for 54K miles it might be possible the valve stem seals have seen enough operating hours to harden and lose their ability to seal. This is a common failure on the V8 but at 54K I'm not going to say this is your problem. It would have to be looked at in order to rule it in or out. Replacing V8 valve stem seals is too expensive to just try and see it it helps.

Do you have the car's maintenance and repair records or can you get them? It would really help to know if the car has gone through oil consumption testing before and or has been in the service department before with engine problems. Did the dealer tell you the Customer Care Package (CCP) recall was done? Some early N63 engines have a history of high oil consumption and have had their engines replaced.
Yes CCP was done. Cost is no object as long as BMW concludes and relays to Carmax warranty that the value stems are a failure point. Seems like BMW has so far said that 2 quarts a 1k is laughable "normal." Miles will tell the story of this car.
 

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I remember when the BMW limit for msprts was 1L/1000km ...basically one quart every 600 miles.

I guess the newer v8s are having issues- and BMWs 'fix' is to raise the oil use limit. Pathetic


I assume you are familiar with the class action details?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
I remember when the BMW limit for msprts was 1L/1000km ...basically one quart every 600 miles.

I guess the newer v8s are having issues- and BMWs 'fix' is to raise the oil use limit. Pathetic

I assume you are familiar with the class action details?
I agree with the concept of the lawsuit and compensation but not sure of the details or if its paid out. Sad BMW has chosen the path they have which is particularly bad for the original owners who reasonably believed their significant investment won't require outrageous repairs that could equal the value of their cars.

Funny thing is before purchasing the car I called an Indy shop and got one of the actual workers rather than a receptionist. He said this gen of X5 was the worst car and it should be worth nothing when you equal in repairs. He said run from it and he'd be able to add an addition to his house f i bought this car due to frequent repairs. Regardless, I bought the car at a good price and committed to a Carmax warranty which was expensive but has more than paid off so far which isn't saying much.
 

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I agree with the concept of the lawsuit and compensation but not sure of the details or if its paid out. Sad BMW has chosen the path they have which is particularly bad for the original owners who reasonably believed their significant investment won't require outrageous repairs that could equal the value of their cars.

Funny thing is before purchasing the car I called an Indy shop and got one of the actual workers rather than a receptionist. He said this gen of X5 was the worst car and it should be worth nothing when you equal in repairs. He said run from it and he'd be able to add an addition to his house f i bought this car due to frequent repairs. Regardless, I bought the car at a good price and committed to a Carmax warranty which was expensive but has more than paid off so far which isn't saying much.
X5 with N63 is problematical, but I would disagree that it is bad vehicle. So far only issues I had on X5 is emissions related. Other diesels are facing same problems. BMW's are having bad reputation since they get bought used by people who want BMW but think it is Toyota Corolla. They use cheap parts, wrong oil etc. Add to that that there are not a lot of places where mechanics really know DNA of those vehicles and things get expensive fast.

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
X5 with N63 is problematical, but I would disagree that it is bad vehicle. So far only issues I had on X5 is emissions related. Other diesels are facing same problems. BMW's are having bad reputation since they get bought used by people who want BMW but think it is Toyota Corolla. They use cheap parts, wrong oil etc. Add to that that there are not a lot of places where mechanics really know DNA of those vehicles and things get expensive fast.

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I agree with what you're saying but I still believe BMW should be ashamed with the N63 engineering flaws.

BMW has making cars for decades and there is zero excuse why some of these engines need valve stem seals, rear main seals, oil pan gasket replacements, and turbo piping related leaks as low as 50k miles. A combination of these repairs can quickly add up to 10 thousand dollars in repairs which is not excusable. I see 7 series once in a while with the N63 engines with blue exhaust smoke on the road. A company that has been making engines for so long has a complete breakdown of Quality Control and a seemingly total lack of component testing related to rubber seals.

Yes BMWs are not Toyotas but how can such a huge company have a brian lapse with their modern internal combustion engine they've been designing more or less for almost a century. I hope you don't have problems with your diesel and yes if there is one problem that comes up that's understandable but if you had a cascade of expensive repairs you'd related to me. For me its more of a laughing part by my peers since my car was in warranty repair all the time when I initially purchased it to sort most of the leaks out i mentioned except for the valve stems for now.
 

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I agree with what you're saying but I still believe BMW should be ashamed with the N63 engineering flaws.

BMW has making cars for decades and there is zero excuse why some of these engines need valve stem seals, rear main seals, oil pan gasket replacements, and turbo piping related leaks as low as 50k miles. A combination of these repairs can quickly add up to 10 thousand dollars in repairs which is not excusable. I see 7 series once in a while with the N63 engines with blue exhaust smoke on the road. A company that has been making engines for so long has a complete breakdown of Quality Control and a seemingly total lack of component testing related to rubber seals.

Yes BMWs are not Toyotas but how can such a huge company have a brian lapse with their modern internal combustion engine they've been designing more or less for almost a century. I hope you don't have problems with your diesel and yes if there is one problem that comes up that's understandable but if you had a cascade of expensive repairs you'd related to me. For me its more of a laughing part by my peers since my car was in warranty repair all the time when I initially purchased it to sort most of the leaks out i mentioned except for the valve stems for now.
Part of the problem with N63 is excessive city driving. BMW engineers complained about this since problems on N63 are much more apparent in the US then in Europe. The are designed with autobahn in mind and most people who buy them in Europe are ones driving a lot on HWY's. In the US it is different profile of the buyers.
N63 at that time was technological jewel. However there are drawbacks of that design. Add to that generally poor understanding of European engineering by average American driver and there you go.
As for Toyota , Toyota purposefully sells "dumb proof" engines. In Europe where fuel is much more expensive and speeds higher, they sell more complex engines and they have slew of issues. When I worked as test driver for car magazine it was the golden age of diesel engines. By far most unreliable engines were Toyota's. You think N63 had issues, check Toyota D-4D 2.2 engine or 1.4 D-4D.

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It has been part of the X5 E70 Knowledge Base since October 2014, part of Luca Paindelli***8217;s tranch of BMW training documents.
 

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Part of the problem with N63 is excessive city driving. BMW engineers complained about this since problems on N63 are much more apparent in the US then in Europe. The are designed with autobahn in mind and most people who buy them in Europe are ones driving a lot on HWY's. In the US it is different profile of the buyers.
N63 at that time was technological jewel. However there are drawbacks of that design. Add to that generally poor understanding of European engineering by average American driver and there you go.
As for Toyota , Toyota purposefully sells "dumb proof" engines. In Europe where fuel is much more expensive and speeds higher, they sell more complex engines and they have slew of issues. When I worked as test driver for car magazine it was the golden age of diesel engines. By far most unreliable engines were Toyota's. You think N63 had issues, check Toyota D-4D 2.2 engine or 1.4 D-4D.

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Wait, what?

If BMW is selling a car in America for American drivers, it is utterly THEIR fault for providing a product that fails to perform as marketed where marketed.

This 'usa bashing' over oil, fuel, roads, driving style just gets old.

Somehow the Japanese have figured this out, no?

:angel:
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
At 60,000 miles I was getting about 1200 miles per liter of oil. At 92,000 my last two liters lasted about 500. No visible leaks or smoke, had valve stem seals done and did not help.

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I have 56000 miles on mine, have no leaks(have been fixed) and go through 2 quarts every 820-850 miles. I drive mostly in rush hour traffic and average 12 miles per hour on a tank. I bought the car used and it came from hot California so i'm not sure if the rubber pieces are slightly cooked. No new valve stems but got new turbos under my Carmax warranty. I've seen a tiny amount of blue smoke upon start up; maybe a couple times. Haven't noticed any when looking through the rear view mirror; i'd want to follow my car when someone else is driving to be sure.

I'm documenting my consumption through BMW now. BMW says their threshold is 2 quarts every 750 miles. Not sure if my Carmax warranty would cover it if its just a hair above that. I'll just have to see how it plays out.
 

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Uh, you DO knw that ANY CAR can be esily made to fail a 'bmw consumption test', right?

Childs play. Suck out some oil from the filler, dipstick, oil filter housing each day.

So what *IS* the bmw official limit these days...seems they keep raising it was more and more cars hit their limit. Last I saw was 2.5qt/1000miles...or 1qt per 400.
 
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