[Magna]

i attended a talk given by steve dinan and i am intrigued by the engine software. i am interested in the software for better trottle response. basically he said that BMW's software is written for average driver and to control emissions, while his software is more oriented for performance. he doesn't directly claim a hp increase. he said the software would help with acceleration (and that in turn would increase hp).

 

[31st330i]

he said the software would help with acceleration (and that in turn would increase hp).

you should have asked him to explain this. the software makes no HP as stated on their web site. the way that it might affect acceleration (and it would likely depend on the driver) is that it increases the red-line by 240RPM and therefore your shift point (albeit slightly). that's really splitting hairs, though and unless you competed for a living or even a hoby, the cost may not be worth the miniscule advantage under extreme conditions. you can also "accelerate" past the previously governed top speed.

since the throttle doesn't open any further (doesn't actually let any more air in), I'm not sure what the recalibrated EML does that the driver can't already compensate for with his/her foot on the accelerator pedal.

 

[Magna]

31st330i:

Thanks for your feedback, by the way, we have the same color car, except mine is a 323i.

I don't particularly like the slow trottle response from the BMW software when I rev-match on downshifts, but reading your webpage and other feedback, I don't think I am going to get it. I've read that Dinan's software makes the trottle response quicker only the up (opening), while others have said the software only affects the trottle on the down (closing). All the uncertainties doesn't make me comfortable.

 

[31st330i]

Re: 31st330i:

I've read that Dinan's software makes the trottle response quicker only the up (opening), while others have said the software only affects the trottle on the down (closing). All the uncertainties doesn't make me comfortable.

I don't quite understand what you mean here (sounds like you might understand it either). to the best of my knowledge, the net effect of the recalibrated EML is that the throttle valve reacts more agressivly to input at the electrically coupled accelerator pedal.

in the motorcycle world, the same thing is accomplished mechanically by changing the cam pulleys that actuate the throttle cable. the cam pulley in the hand grip can be made larger and/or the cam pulley on the carburetor cluster can be made smaller. this is very different from making the engine itself more responsive to the *same* movement of the throttle *valve*.

 

[nate]

Re: 31st330i:

Thanks for your feedback, by the way, we have the same color car, except mine is a 323i.

ummm....you have a 323i, the software DOES increase power. It does not re-calibrate the throttle settings because 323s do not have electronic throttles...

 

[Magna]

31st330i:

i don't completely understand what they are saying either. some say, that pressing the trottle pedal is more responsive (reach higher rpm with same pressure on the pedals) with Dinan. other say the responsive comes from letting go of the trottle (rpms don't hang, they fall faster) with the Dinan. if that's true than i would say that rev-match downshifts would be easier to accomplish. right now, i would want trottle to more responsive when i press the pedal and when i let go (no hanging).


nate:

do you have the dinan software in your car? how's is it in your opinion. i believe i have a mechanical pedal linkage to an electronic trottle, while the new 330i's have electronic pedal linkage to an electronic trottle.

 

[31st330i]

Re: Re: 31st330i:

ummm....you have a 323i, the software DOES increase power. It does not re-calibrate the throttle settings because 323s do not have electronic throttles...

yes, Nate is correct, sorry for not catching the fact that you have a 323. by all acounts that I've read, the Dinan software does make HP on the 323/328 models.

as I recall, the reason for this is that the number of fuel maps were doubled on the 325/330 models so the OEM sofware has more information available for a wider variety of conditions. with respect to the 325/330 software, Dinan is the ounly vendor out of the 4 total that I've heard of that does not play with cam timing via the VANOS. this accounts for other vendors making higher HP claims even on the 323/328 software and *any* HP with the 325/330 software.

 

[The HACK]

Re: Re: 31st330i:

ummm....you have a 323i, the software DOES increase power. It does not re-calibrate the throttle settings because 323s do not have electronic throttles...

Technically, the 323 and the 328 DOES have electronic throttls...Except it's hooked up to the gas pedal by a mechanical linkage.

The 325 and the 330 takes this one step further and has a 100% electrical system, where the pedal input into the electronic throttle is ALSO electronic.

 

[nate]

Re: Re: Re: 31st330i:

Technically, the 323 and the 328 DOES have electronic throttls...Except it's hooked up to the gas pedal by a mechanical linkage.

The 325 and the 330 takes this one step further and has a 100% electrical system, where the pedal input into the electronic throttle is ALSO electronic.

I was waiting for someone to say this, thank you. I think you know what I meant...

 

[nate]

nate:

do you have the dinan software in your car? how's is it in your opinion. i believe i have a mechanical pedal linkage to an electronic trottle, while the new 330i's have electronic pedal linkage to an electronic trottle.

I like it. Nice power gain. Better mid range torque. Might want to consider the Conforti as well...

 

[DKJBama330ci]

31st330i:

other say the responsive comes from letting go of the trottle (rpms don't hang, they fall faster) with the Dinan. if that's true than i would say that rev-match downshifts would be easier to accomplish. right now, i would want trottle to more responsive when i press the pedal and when i let go (no hanging).

AFAIK The only thing that is going to materially make revs drop faster would be a lighter weight flywheeel. I'm no expert though.

DKJ

 

[cenotaph]

AFAIK The only thing that is going to materially make revs drop faster would be a lighter weight flywheeel. I'm no expert though.

DKJ

That is one way, but it won't help much if BMW has the DME keeping the throttle open for a fraction of a second after you take your foot off, and from what I've seen with my car this appears to be the case in some situations. I vaguely recall a TSB that was put out for the early 325s/330s to fix this, does anyone else remember that?

I would have liked to have gone to the Dinan tech session, but the 4th autocross event was the same day. I chose to wear down my Pilot Sports instead of just sitting around.

 

[Magna]

thanks for all the feedback. hmmm, not sure what to do now. i suppose i could take a chance and buy it and see if i like it.

by the way, the dinan rep. said that the DME can take only so many flashes (another word for download?), thus buying the Shark could be a problem.

 

[31st330i]

thanks for all the feedback. hmmm, not sure what to do now. i suppose i could take a chance and buy it and see if i like it.

no can do. fist of all, you don't get a physical product with the Dinan software. they flash your car with their computer and their flashing algorythm. Hack can fill you in on the transferability of ownership bit (even between *HIS OWN* two cars).

once you've flash a car with a shark injector, it becomes personalized to that car and is useless to anyone else (except perhaps a very knowledgable hacker).

by the way, the dinan rep. said that the DME can take only so many flashes (another word for download?), thus buying the Shark could be a problem.

sounds like the Dinan sales drone is spreading some FUD (fear uncertainty and doubt) designed to do nothing more than prevent you from purchasing a competing brand. Steve Dinan himself is a straight shooter so unless I heard something like that from him or perhaps one of his software engineers, count it as pure, unfiltered, 100% genuine, BS.

besides, why would you switch back and forth between software once installed unless you had a problem? from what I've been told by a VERY reliable source, there may be like five people in the world who can tell that your software has been modified.

 

[cenotaph]

by the way, the dinan rep. said that the DME can take only so many flashes (another word for download?), thus buying the Shark could be a problem.

This is likely correct, but exagerated. If the DME stores its software in a Flash ROM or an EEPROM (Electrically Erasable Programable Read Only Memory), which is very likely, there is a finite number of times that it can be programmed. However, this number is usually somewhere in the thousands.

 

[31st330i]

which is very likely, there is a finite number of times that it can be programmed. However, this number is usually somewhere in the thousands.

but it still means that the sales drone is spreading FUD designed to do nothing more than prevent one from purchasing a competing brand.

I've spoken to the Dinan sales drones myself and couldn't believe the info that they spewed. on the other hand, I have in the past spoken to a sales person or two over there that has been very knowledgable as well as ethical.

 

[Munich]

I have reflashed my car at least 2 times with different software and I don't think it is a problem, however there are traces of it when you connect it to a dealer DIS, as except them can clear the error codes that happens when you reflash your ECU.

 

[31st330i]

I have reflashed my car at least 2 times with different software and I don't think it is a problem, however there are traces of it when you connect it to a dealer DIS, as except them can clear the error codes that happens when you reflash your ECU.

how are these traces visible (how do you know that any Dinan or Conforti software turds still exist)?

can you clarify the last part of the sentence?

 

[blackdawg]

actually, i have also been told this.

for some reason, the ECU in my 2000 m coupe, which was tweaked all of the time....i was warned about the finite number of times the ECU could be flashed with new software.

they must get this idea from somewhere.......

 

[The HACK]

no can do. fist of all, you don't get a physical product with the Dinan software. they flash your car with their computer and their flashing algorythm. Hack can fill you in on the transferability of ownership bit (even between *HIS OWN* two cars).

Indeed. Dinan does offer something like a 30 day money back guaranteed, if you don't like the software download they'll give you your money back.

However, there is NO WAY they'll transfer the software from one car to another, even between two IDENTICAL cars. My wife and I both drive 323Ci, production date seperated by two month and she's got an automatic transmission. It's the same software download and they wouldn't even let me try to transfer the software from my car to her car.

Coming from a person who's tried both the Shark Injector and the Dinan software on the same identical car (my 323Ci), I'd say wait for the Shark if you can. It is a dramatic difference and the ease of operation for the Shark won me over.