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Greetings ! I have been a stealth visitor to the F10 forum for several months now, and finally decided to join so I can ask an important question. I've decided to order a 535i, Deep Sea Blue w/ Beige Leather, P1 & P2, Sport Package, Dynamic Handling, Convenience Pakage, Driver Assistance Package, and a few other goodies. Basically, the only thing I'm leaving off is the Integral Active Steering. I want as sporting a 535i as I can possibly buy. I was planning on waiting for the M Sport version, and have viewed and configured the car on BMW's UK site. But I was very disappointed they won't be offering half of the colors available on a non-M Sport car, including my beloved Deep Sea Blue. Sorry, but Imperial Blue doesn't do it for me.

So.... In reading the many, many comments regarding what members do and don't like about the new 5, and whether it's too skewed towards the luxury car side of the equation, and which features are needed to make it a sporting sedan, I can't seem to get a definitive answer to what should be a simple question: with SP & DHP, do I want or need IAS in order to make this as sporting a sedan as possible ??? On a fast mountain road drive, will IAS make things better or worse for me ?

Thanks in advance for your help; I really have learned a lot from all the discussions (Pharding, Solstice, Richschneid, et al). :thumbup:
 

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Mr. Magic
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with SP & DHP, do I want or need IAS in order to make this as sporting a sedan as possible ??? On a fast mountain road drive, will IAS make things better or worse for me ?
The two words, "fast mountain" almost REQUIRE Integral Active Steering if you are outfitting this car to enjoy driving it. I have tested it extensively on our California fast mountain roads, and it basically "removes" 1000 pounds off the vehicle in perceived weight around the curves. In my mind, an easy decision. Too bad they don't stock many of these cars with IAS to test on these type of roads.

Edit: There is a loaded 535i up in Santa Maria as shown on Edmunds inventory with Active Steering. There might be others, but this is the only one I know about here that one might be able to test out.
 

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in my opinion active steering ruins the car... i would not buy one with active steering.

I would test drive both and decide for yourself.
 

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The two words, "fast mountain" almost REQUIRE Integral Active Steering if you are outfitting this car to enjoy driving it.
In my opinion active steering ruins the car... i would not buy one with active steering.
:dunno: I love it ! I appreciate this input, but it certainly points out the conundrum I'm faced with ! Couldn't get two more diametrically opposed recommendations. I look forward to additional advice, and hopefully I'll be able to make the right decision regarding IAS. Thanks.
 

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IAS is for little ol ladies that don't want to strain a muscle or break a nail in the parking garage...
Seriously though I haven't tried it on the F10 and therefore do not know if it is able to mitigate some of the numbness and lack of center weight.
To me a sporty feel needs to be connected, communicative and predictable, I think IAS might be counter productive to those traits even though it could possible
improve track times ( who in their right mind chooses an F10 for a track day anyway? ).
 

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Oil Burners Rule!
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It's $1,800.It's just one more thing that can go wrong...perhaps even badly wrong.It's easy for *me*,at least,to see how it could be difficult and/or expensive to keep the rear wheels aligned with such an option.I wouldn't do it....but mine is just one opinion.
 

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I like it a lot at low and high speeds because it works well to make the car more nimble. However it is subjective. I would test drive cars with and without it back to back.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I like it a lot at low and high speeds because it works well to make the car more nimble. However it is subjective. I would test drive cars with and without it back to back.
Pharding - Have you driven an F10 5er fast WITHOUT IAS ? (I know that your car has both DHP & IAS) Unfortunately, I don't have the time to drive two versions of a 535i - one with DHP & IAS, one with only DHP - up to some fast roads for a quick comparison, and frankly doubt that even my large dealer here in San Diego could arrange for such a test drive for me. If you've driven both versions, I'd really like your views on how the cars handle differently when going fast on mountain roads (i.e., I don't care about parking lot maneuvers). Thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Pharding - Also, could you please tell me what the following abbreviations stand for ? Thanks. SF RS, CA
 

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The early auto magazine reviews of the 535 really liked that feature because it made the car more nimble. I live in an urban area and I park in a parking structure at the office. I end up maneuvering in tight spaces so IAS works well for that. The turning radius of the F!0 in making a U-turn is amazing. The car is definitely more nimble at high speed with it. I drove F10's with it and without it and I liked it so I got it on my 550i. I drove my car for 1200 miles in Germany and I am glad that I got it.

SF RS = Split Folding Rear Seats. CA = Comfort Access. Split folding rear seats is an awesome option. CA is OK, but probably no worth $1,000.
 

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The steering and car has some issues but I did not find a lack of nimbleness to be one of them. It feels very nimble for such a big and heavy car even without IAS.
Regarding SF RS I think it can reduce the structural rigidity of the car causing more flexing of the chassi, not sure if it's valid or noticeable on the F10 though.
 

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The steering and car has some issues but I did not find a lack of nimbleness to be one of them. It feels very nimble for such a big and heavy car even without IAS.
Regarding SF RS I think it can reduce the structural rigidity of the car causing more flexing of the chassi, not sure if it's valid or noticeable on the F10 though.
I did not order my car, but sat down with my dealer finding the best available after months of test driving various makes and models. There are only two options I don't have that I wish I did (I can live without them, just couldn't live with a month or two wait) and those are the IAS and split folding rear seats.

A long time ago I had one of the 4WS Honda Preludes, my first experience with any kind of 4WS and found it to be one of the best handling options that I've ever experienced. I spent about 6 years driving Lotus cars (Europa Twin Cam and Esprit Turbo) so I don't necessarily go with the notion that BMW is supreme when it comes to handling. I did spend 2 days in an IAS equipped 550i: It handles better than mine. When it came to other options/colors/etc. I just couldn't find exactly what I was looking for and opted for one without it.

If you are ordering your car and want the best handling you can get, you need IAS.

On the split folding rear seats (have a son that pole vaults, hence the desire) they won't touch the rigidity of the chassis, no bearing whatsoever. Do not worry about that, the chassis on the F10 is more solid that just about any BMW ever built, and in large part responsible for the increases in weight. It's also why the new M5 (when it comes out) will blow people away.

fwiw
 

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I drove one with IAS and did not like it. Also I would rather spend the $1700 toward stiffening the suspension which in my opinion is the real problem with the car. Also there is still hope(small but still) that since BMW is taking so much heat for the lack of feedback from the steering that being electronic they may just do a S/W update to improve that. That's just my opinion.
 

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"On the split folding rear seats (have a son that pole vaults, hence the desire) they won't touch the rigidity of the chassis, no bearing whatsoever."
Interresting, how do you know this? There used to be a side to side steal plate on bmws behind the rear seats that by any law of physics would increase the rigidity compared to
a car with split fold seats. Have they done away with that plate or do they have another structure to make up for it?
 

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The E60 had a molded Steel + Aluminum frame. Intent was weight savings, result was questionable rigidity. Take a look over the lifetime of the E60 repair costs involving the frame/chassis.

In 2009 BMW spent almost 70 million dollars for a facility at their plant to harden steel components, including chassis beams. The F10 chassis is predominantly made here. Intent here was to increase rigidity without increasing weight, they've been fairly successful, but not kept the weight down as much as intended. The F10 chassis is suppose to be 55% stiffer than the E60.

To answer your question, I don't believe the steel plate is there anymore, or necessary.
 

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The E60 had a molded Steel + Aluminum frame. Intent was weight savings, result was questionable rigidity. Take a look over the lifetime of the E60 repair costs involving the frame/chassis.

In 2009 BMW spent almost 70 million dollars for a facility at their plant to harden steel components, including chassis beams. The F10 chassis is predominantly made here. Intent here was to increase rigidity without increasing weight, they've been fairly successful, but not kept the weight down as much as intended. The F10 chassis is suppose to be 55% stiffer than the E60.

To answer your question, I don't believe the steel plate is there anymore, or necessary.
Thanks you made me curious, I need to check it out after the re-delivery of my ED car.
 

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I did not order my car, but sat down with my dealer finding the best available after months of test driving various makes and models. There are only two options I don't have that I wish I did (I can live without them, just couldn't live with a month or two wait) and those are the IAS and split folding rear seats.

A long time ago I had one of the 4WS Honda Preludes, my first experience with any kind of 4WS and found it to be one of the best handling options that I've ever experienced. I spent about 6 years driving Lotus cars (Europa Twin Cam and Esprit Turbo) so I don't necessarily go with the notion that BMW is supreme when it comes to handling. I did spend 2 days in an IAS equipped 550i: It handles better than mine. When it came to other options/colors/etc. I just couldn't find exactly what I was looking for and opted for one without it.

If you are ordering your car and want the best handling you can get, you need IAS.

On the split folding rear seats (have a son that pole vaults, hence the desire) they won't touch the rigidity of the chassis, no bearing whatsoever. Do not worry about that, the chassis on the F10 is more solid that just about any BMW ever built, and in large part responsible for the increases in weight. It's also why the new M5 (when it comes out) will blow people away.

fwiw
My question: Have you ever driven an Acura equipped with the SH-AWD and/or the 2010-11 Audi S4 equipped with the Sport Differential? If so, what did you think?

I've driven a Lotus Esprit (extensively) and also my NSX so I do not agree with the notion that BMW is supreme when it comes to handling either. I own another Acura with Super Handling AWD (the car I'm replacing) and I've driven the new Audi S4 with sport differential - same concept. I believe IAS is trying to produce the same effect with steering instead of the differential's redistribution of torque. I'm really interested in your opinion/thoughts if you have driven the above mentioned cars. I may come to having to order my car with IAS based on people's well informed opinions since I have not been able to find an IAS equipped 550 near where I live.
 

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My question: Have you ever driven an Acura equipped with the SH-AWD and/or the 2010-11 Audi S4 equipped with the Sport Differential? If so, what did you think?
No.

I've driven some of the Acura's at Mid-Ohio, but none with AWD. I did drive the S6 and was disappointed, but not the S4.
 

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:dunno: I love it ! I appreciate this input, but it certainly points out the conundrum I'm faced with ! Couldn't get two more diametrically opposed recommendations. I look forward to additional advice, and hopefully I'll be able to make the right decision regarding IAS. Thanks.
If you can't find a F10 with IAS, do what I did and test drive a 7 with IAS. I drove a 750Li with IAS+DHP and it was physics defying. Felt like I was driving a 335i but it looked like a land yacht.

Its unbelievable...
 

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If you can't find a F10 with IAS, do what I did and test drive a 7 with IAS. I drove a 750Li with IAS+DHP and it was physics defying. Felt like I was driving a 335i but it looked like a land yacht.

Its unbelievable...
Thanks for your comment. Did you have a chance to drive the 750Li fast on a winding or mountain road ?
 
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