We often settle on lease terms long before the car arrives...

Right now, E46 Coupes are practically non-existent.

Waiting a bit will help your situation a lot.

There will be much more product available, and real
lease programs will be released for the 2003s. In other words,
BMWFS hasn't done so yet...

Don't make the mistake of being myopic here...

SO many times I see buyers (who intend to lease)
negotiating and focusing solely on the cap cost (selling price).

They pick a dealer who gives them the skinniest deal over invoice.
Unwittingly, they then sign a lease agreement where
they are getting totally jacked on the back end (when
their car arrives). The money factor gets marked up
heavily, and the dealer "earns" extra profit
in the form of "lease reserve"...

In those cases, it's not the money factor,
but the "gouge factor"...

Let's look at the totality of the deal.

Let's examine your particular situation publicly
(that is if you don't mind)... Please post the range
of the quotes that you received (expressed in terms
of "over invoice")...

The particular dealer's names do not need to be
posted. Just the raw data for analysis...

I want to help you.
If you are looking for some real help here, please
tell me what you've got thus far. This information will also
be very valuable and useful to many other members here...

:angel:

mgs333 said:

Hi Jon,

I finally did get a quote on the 03 325Ci i was looking for, not that great a deal.. but to the point..

is it possible to order a 03 now and lease it? one of the dealers quoted me ridiculous 'estimated' terms ($840 driveoff, with $540 monthly for 12000 miles per year on a 3 year lease)

do i have to wait until the car comes in to 'negotiate' the terms? what if we can't agree on mutual terms and the car's already built?

Click to expand...

so far i only have several quotes on just the purchase price since i originally planned to purchase.. i'm actually surprised that cutter's quote is the highest amongst the quotes i've gotten..

with leasing, i couldn't give a rat's ass about the car price they're giving me, the only things i'm concerned about are the driveoff and the monthly payments..

as far as leasing quotes, i only have one so far, i've only started asking around yesterday, the one quote is:

with $830 driveoff, $560/month inc. tax
or $2000 driveoff, $523/month
or $5885 driveoff, $400/month..

all 12000miles/yr, 3 year lease. i have excellent credit (FICO 750) and live in orange county 7.75% tax rate..

that's his 'estimated' terms based on 02 terms..

but if i go to bmw's website.. i get these terms which i would assume the dealers can probably do better than.. (i'd guess this would be like the 'msrp' of lease??)

bmw site estimates: (36 month, 12k/year lease)
with $2500 down, $432/month
with $0 down, $508/month..

obviously, he's trying to rip me off bad..

another dealer has told me that they can't yet give me any lease terms since bmw financial hasn't released any numbers..

so are you saying i should wait until bmw releases leasing terms before i order? when are those numbers expected? i'd guess once the cars hit the showrooms? so when is that?

Commence rant...
(please don't take this personally)

Rule #1: Completely disregard any lease payment that is generated
by the website at BMWUSA.com. Even they
(BMWNA) know that the payment estimator is a fraudulent
misrepresentation of the real world. Payments are usually
off by $50/mo, and often much, much more... The justification
(and this is an exact quote) "we just want our customers
to get the idea of just how affordable a BMW can be" (end quote).
It is borderline criminal I.M.H.O.
Audi does the same thing. They send you through the
"build your own program" and then calculate your payment
on a base model vehicle with no options...
Without taxes too...

Yeah, it makes me too... I have to try to explain and justify
this to the consumers that come into the showroom, bringing
with them their unrealistic expectations of just what a lease truly
costs... I could run through the math of a lease calculation
for you again here as I have done so many times for others,
and then let you see for yourself. puke: I invite anyone to try it.
The last I tried estimating a payment on a fictitious 540i it
gave me the payment of a 525i. Just imagine being in the position
of the dealer for a minute: "Gee Mr. Customer, the Internet lied"...

<< obviously, he's trying to rip me off bad.. >>
Standard reaction to this practice, unfortunately...
Not the dealer's fault on this issue.

Rule #2: Be informed.

<< that's his 'estimated' terms based on 02 terms.. >>
:lmao:
<< another dealer has told me that they can't yet
give me any lease terms since bmw financial
hasn't released any numbers.. >>

Rates and residuals (for MY2003) have been posted by
BMWFS for weeks; we are waiting to see if any "specials"
come out, which will not happen until there is product to be rolled...

<< i'm actually surprised that cutter's quote is the
highest amongst the quotes i've gotten.. >>

You shouldn't really be surprised at all. As of this exact moment,
as I posted the other day, I don't have a single 325Ci available
for probably the next 2 allocations... You can't give away that
which you don't have... What I also wrote in that thread is
that if you were willing to be patient, we could do a lot better.
My pencil can be as sharp as anybody's - especially for a board member.
I can give them away with the best of them. Just for
the hell of it, I often take "goofy" deals - because I can.
No manager "to check with"...

Conclusion: Find you best deal, let me know what it is
(I'll know if it's legit, or not), and I will beat it. Period.
I'll even trade to get you an extra allocation to fill your order
now...
End of message.

Rant over...

mgs333 said:

so far i only have several quotes on just the purchase price since i originally planned to purchase.. i'm actually surprised that cutter's quote is the highest amongst the quotes i've gotten..

with leasing, i couldn't give a rat's ass about the car price they're giving me, the only things i'm concerned about are the driveoff and the monthly payments..

as far as leasing quotes, i only have one so far, i've only started asking around yesterday, the one quote is:

with $830 driveoff, $560/month inc. tax
or $2000 driveoff, $523/month
or $5885 driveoff, $400/month..

all 12000miles/yr, 3 year lease. i have excellent credit (FICO 750) and live in orange county 7.75% tax rate..

that's his 'estimated' terms based on 02 terms..

but if i go to bmw's website.. i get these terms which i would assume the dealers can probably do better than.. (i'd guess this would be like the 'msrp' of lease??)

bmw site estimates: (36 month, 12k/year lease)
with $2500 down, $432/month
with $0 down, $508/month..

obviously, he's trying to rip me off bad..

another dealer has told me that they can't yet give
me any lease terms since
bmw financial hasn't released any numbers..

so are you saying i should wait until bmw releases leasing terms before i order? when are those numbers expected? i'd guess once the cars hit the showrooms? so when is that?

Click to expand...

MGS33: Check your PM. :thumbup:

--SONET

Jon, You are da man :thumbup: :thumbup:

Jon Shafer said:

What I also wrote in that thread is
that if you were willing to be patient, we could do a lot better.
My pencil can be as sharp as anybody's - especially for a board member.
I can give them away with the best of them. Just for
the hell of it, I often take "goofy" deals - because I can.
No manager "to check with"...

Conclusion: Find you best deal, let me know what it is
(I'll know if it's legit, or not), and I will beat it. Period.
I'll even trade to get you an extra allocation to fill your order
now...

Click to expand...

Jon's right about web-site caculators...they all suck, none take taxes into account:banghead: audi/vw is the worst of the bunch:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:you spend 5 minutes building the car you want, and, "BAM" your back to base MSRP

all of them should let you at least modify the price of the car, so you can look at numbers with your deal.

at least the "purchase" calculators are a little bit better (key word is little)

My $0.02

Even if you plan to lease, you still need to work the deal the same way as if your buying for cash or taking a loan. That means working the price of the car first, deferring all talk of financing till the car price is settled. The best way of doing this is probably a modifed version of the Rizzo (blast fax) method (I'm not getting into that in this thread, but it's been discussed a number of times). You should have the price pretty much agreed upon before setting foot in the dealer.

Before going to the dealer make sure you know a few things:

- What is the current and reasonable money factor for the car.

- The current residual for the car for the number of years and miles you want.

- What fees are reasonable, and what is straight up and down dealer pack (profit).

- VERY IMPORTANT - Know the lease calculation, so you can figure it out yourself as your working with the dealers F&I guy. This includes knowing how to back the money factor number out to an APR, so you know you're not getting ripped off. This is not rocket science. The whole thing is like a 10 formula excel spreadsheet. If you're so equipped, the best thing to do is to have a laptop, with the above mentioned spreadsheet ready to go. The F&I guys must love it when customers do this.

All this info is available in one form or another. usually it can be found right on this board.
With this information, you can negotiate with the dealer on something approaching an even footing. In the end, it could save you thousends of dollars.

thanks everyone. i kinda had a little suspicion that the bmw website might be leaving out the tax.. anywho, i actually did the calculation and that lease doesn't sound THAT bad..

i guessed the residual at $22000 and the money factor at 9% (.00375) and the payments come out to about what he gave me including 7.75% tax...

i think i've decided to go ahead and purchase and not lease..

jon, i'm just about ready to put down a deposit. would you email me at (email removed) with your offer? for both purchase and lease? i might still lease if the terms are right..

thanks.

Matthew

Gotta agree big time with that

operknockity said:

Jon, You are da man :thumbup: :thumbup:

Click to expand...

>i guessed the residual at $22000 and the money factor at 9%
>(.00375) and the payments come out to about what he gave me >including 7.75% tax...

The money factor should be around 6% (.0025) and not
the insanely high 9% (.00375). At least I am getting
.0025 on a 03 330Ci.

Those weren't our figures, btw...

skd said:

>i guessed the residual at $22000 and the money factor at 9%
>(.00375) and the payments come out to about what he gave me >including 7.75% tax...

The money factor should be around 6% (.0025) and not
the insanely high 9% (.00375). At least I am getting
.0025 on a 03 330Ci.

Click to expand...

Dear Jon,

I regret to inform you that tonight I placed a deposit with a local dealer for an october build date..

I truly appreciate all your help and honesty and I really feel bad about not being able to give you my business.. Your numbers were very attractive but in the end, I just wanted to have my car sooner.. You mentioned that even in the nov. allocation, you only had the sulev's and would have to try to get one in for me.. i guess i just went with a dealer who still had space in their october allocation..

Once again thanks and best wishes for future success in your business. :thumbup:

Matthew

P.S. I might sound like it, but i'm not going anywhere, I'll still be around..

No problem Mathew...

Congratulations!

The boys at Crevier are my friends;
I'm sure that they will look after you...

If this is your first BMW, well, welcome to the family!!

:thumbup:

why yes it is my first bimmer.. i guess you saw the crevier name before i edited it out.. thanks for the welcome!