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Grumpy and Cynical
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Shouldn't we get back to original topic? Ashe, in your mind, execution without trial is perfectly OK? In that case, it would alright with you if the US just line up the prisoners in Cuba and machine gun them down, right? Or should they just be stoned to death? Please don't reply with the words from some other author. I think we would like to hear YOUR opinion in YOUR own words.

Ed
 

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yes and you are the scholar and all knowing.....
you love to toot your own horn... everyone else is just stupid...
 

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Ed328Ci said:
Shouldn't we get back to original topic? Ashe, in your mind, execution without trial is perfectly OK? In that case, it would alright with you if the US just line up the prisoners in Cuba and machine gun them down, right? Or should they just be stoned to death?

Ed

All of a sudden we are concerned with a few traitors? what about the 4000 made homeless by the Israelis or the 6000 POWs?
 

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Grumpy and Cynical
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Ashe said:



All of a sudden we are concerned with a few traitors? what about the 4000 made homeless by the Israelis or the 6000 POWs?
You are avoiding the question. Please respond.

Ed
 

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O.G.
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hts said:


As for the attack on the USS Liberty, once again, I'm not very learned on this particular incident in US history, but without doing some independent research (who has the time), my initial inclination is that it was an accident. I seriously doubt that Israel intentionally downed a US warship. And if the U.S. government thought any differently, why did we not retaliate against Israel in kind? Huh?
Two questions surface regarding the attack (the ship was not sunk): Why would Israel attack an American ship? Why would the US ignore the attack?

The primary theory on the first question: the Israelis may not have wanted the United States to know that "at that same moment, a scant dozen or so miles away, Israeli soldiers were butchering civilians and bound prisoners by the hundreds, a fact that the entire Israeli army leadership knew about and condoned, according to the army's own historian."

The answer to the second is clear. The US govt. immediately covered up the incident. Everyone on the ship was forbidden to talk about what had transpired. Given that we were at the height of the Cold War, the last thing the US wanted was trouble.

http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/04/23/liberty.attack/
 

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I'm a Mac
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Ed328Ci said:


You are avoiding the question. Please respond.

Ed

Give him time Ed. He needs time to do some internet research, find a response that approximates something on topic, and then 'cut and paste' it into this thread. These things take a few minutes...
 

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Ed328Ci said:
Shouldn't we get back to original topic? Ashe, in your mind, execution without trial is perfectly OK? In that case, it would alright with you if the US just line up the prisoners in Cuba and machine gun them down, right? Or should they just be stoned to death? Please don't reply with the words from some other author. I think we would like to hear YOUR opinion in YOUR own words.

Ed
When Israel assassinates leading Palestinians from helicopters or with bombs do they get trials?
 

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I'm a Mac
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Spiderm0n said:


When Israel assassinates leading Palestinians from helicopters do they get trials?

They were tried in the court of popular opinion. ha ha. I know it's not a laughing matter. Sorry.

The fact of the matter is that Israel provides evidence (always undisputed) regarding the guilt of these terrorists to the Palestinian Authority, who refuses to do anything about it. If they won't, well, I guess Israel will/does.

Isn't it sad how the PLO was unable/unwilling to arrest known/wanted militants, despite the fact that they had forever to do so, yet Israel goes in there, kicks a little butt, and next thing you know, they've rounded up hundreds (with likely hundreds more yet to be rounded up from both arafat's hq and the church of the nativity?).

yeah, yeah, i know, israel has destroyed arafat's infrastructure, so how can we possibly expect him to round up wanted terrorists? ya' got me there. good argument.
 

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Grumpy and Cynical
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Spiderm0n said:


When Israel assassinates leading Palestinians from helicopters do they get trials?
And our snipers didn't give Al Qauda <sp> members trials before they shot them during last month's operations in Afghanistan. In one case, it's war on a foreign opponent. In the case of the "traitors", it's execution of your own people without trial. There is a visible difference between the two cases.

Ed
 

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Polemicist
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Discussion Starter #30
More info on the Palestinian lynchings today... This is from the UK super-liberal, very pro-Palestinian newspaper the Independent. Incidentally, these guys were apparently married. Oh well.

The first body was hanging upside down, one grey left foot tied to the electricity pylon with wire, his right leg hanging at an obscene angle, his head lolling below what remained of a black shirt.

This was Moussa Arjoub of Doura village. The second body was infinitely more terrible, a butcher's carcass; again, hanging by a left leg, but this time his almost naked torso was riven with stab marks and holes into which Palestinian boys of 10 or 12, whooping with glee, were stubbing cigarettes. This was Zuheir al-Mukhtaseb. His head was almost severed from his remains, moving slightly in the wind, bearded, face still distorted with terror.

He reminded me, oddly, of that fearsome portrait of the martyrdom of Saint Sebastian, all arrows and open wounds. But Zuheir al-Mukhtaseb was reviled, not honoured, children and middle-aged Palestinian men roaring with delight when stones thumped off the collaborator's bloodied corpse.

"This is a lesson to all here." I turned round to find a middle-aged, portly man with a big brown beard, gesturing towards another revolting bag of flesh behind me. "This was Mohamed Debebsi. This is a lesson for the people. Everyone should see this." As I watched, a group of young men with grinning faces hurled his corpse into a rubbish truck.

What do you do when a people go mad with joy at such savagery? At first, I could not write the description of what I saw into my reporter's notebook and drew sketches instead to remind me of what I was seeing. "Allahu Akbar" – God is Greatest – roared that awful crowd. There were girls on rooftops, young men in suits and ties staring at the corpses from only 10 feet away, boys throwing stones to finish the decapitation of Zuheir al-Mukhtaseb.

And the street where this – let us call it by its name and say this pornography – took place? "Sharia Salam." The Street of Peace.
 

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Honestly, I think the biggest mistake in this whole mess was making Arafat (and the PLO) the sole arbeiter of Palestinian peace. Why should Arafat have any interest in ending terrorism? Terrorism got him the Nobel Peace Prize. Certainly, it's true that he at least made an effort initially to curb terrorism, however, when things ceased to go his way, he allowed and encouraged other organizations to attack Israel.

Do i think Zionism was stupid in the first place? Yes. Should have bought out a chunk of Canada, or some resource rich country in Africa. Sticking two groups with strong beliefs right on top of some of the centers of their religious faiths is damned well going to result in violence.

It would be nice if you guys would stop attacking eachother. It's one thing to debate this calmly and peacefully. Intellectual, logical discussions are very pleasant and enjoyable. HOWEVER, all I see here is several people getting angry at eachother over fundamental disagreements. LIGHTEN UP PEOPLE!

Remember: Ad hominem attacks are among the worst of the logical fallacies.

My two cents.
 

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O.G.
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Nick325xiT said:

It would be nice if you guys would stop attacking each other. It's one thing to debate this calmly and peacefully. Intellectual, logical discussions are very pleasant and enjoyable. HOWEVER, all I see here is several people getting angry at each other over fundamental disagreements. LIGHTEN UP PEOPLE!
I don't think I have attacked anyone, and am not angry at anyone (except IBM :mad: ). However, I agree that personal attacks make the discussion less interesting to participate in.
 

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Totally agreed - everyone is entitled to their own opinion on the subject and reading these things is supposed to help enlighten one person's view to the views of others.

Blatantly bashing another person is not only uncalled for and non-contributory to the discussion, it also makes that person doing the bashing look like an asshole and completely negates every word they utter. I'm honestly surprised that the replies of one person in this thread have devolved to the point they have - retaliatory fifth grade rebukes. I think you need to sit in the corner and have a time-out young man until you learn to play nice with others (hey, how about we do the same to israel).
 

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joes325xi said:
Totally agreed - everyone is entitled to their own opinion on the subject and reading these things is supposed to help enlighten one person's view to the views of others.

Blatantly bashing another person is not only uncalled for and non-contributory to the discussion, it also makes that person doing the bashing look like an asshole and completely negates every word they utter. I'm honestly surprised that the replies of one person in this thread have devolved to the point they have - retaliatory fifth grade rebukes. I think you need to sit in the corner and have a time-out young man until you learn to play nice with others (hey, how about we do the same to israel).

:thumb: :thumb: ;)
 
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