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A lot of the paranoid types are screaming foul this morning. Got to chime in, because I not your feeling towards this in your post. Mainly the eye's rolling emoticon. The very next time this guys strikes, hes caught. Noone can run from the military with their technology. The only saving factor for this guy now is luck. An AWACS bird, can automatically catch a muzzle flash, in broad daylight, even if it is looking in the opposite direction. Once caught, the flee-er or persons will be tracked instantly no matter where they run. If it saves even one person's life, it is worth it.

Now, maybe this will put your mind at ease, but, the military made their final decision to enter the hunt, just hours after several, witnesses said that the shooter had olive skin, and looked hispanic, or arabic in ethnicity. If this is some Muslim Terrorist, they have the right to be there, and keep in mind, they know much more than we do.
 

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First off, where was the outcry of "police state" we're becoming when the FBI nailed the Oregon 5, who admitted to planning attacks on local schools?

Personally, prior to the shooting of the 13 yr. old, I assumed a profile similiar to that of Berkowitz (white male, 20 something, ex-Army, loner..etc) but after the kid was gut shot, then I began questioning whether or not it might be a terrorist acting individually or possibly with an accomplice.


"For the first time, witnesses were able to give information about license plates on vehicles they said were fleeing the scene. Some described a light-colored Chevrolet Astro van with a burned-out rear taillight.

At least one witness saw a male sniper (Described as dark, olive skinned male)aim and fire, then flee in a van, The Washington Post reported Wednesday. The New York Times said the gunman fired from 90 feet away and was inside the parking garage. The newspapers cited anonymous law enforcement or government sources. The Times' sources also said authorities were able
to get enough of a description to allow a police artist to try a composite drawing.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
dredmo said:
A lot of the paranoid types are screaming foul this morning. Got to chime in, because I not your feeling towards this in your post. Mainly the eye's rolling emoticon. The very next time this guys strikes, hes caught. Noone can run from the military with their technology. The only saving factor for this guy now is luck. An AWACS bird, can automatically catch a muzzle flash, in broad daylight, even if it is looking in the opposite direction. Once caught, the flee-er or persons will be tracked instantly no matter where they run. If it saves even one person's life, it is worth it.

Now, maybe this will put your mind at ease, but, the military made their final decision to enter the hunt, just hours after several, witnesses said that the shooter had olive skin, and looked hispanic, or arabic in ethnicity. If this is some Muslim Terrorist, they have the right to be there, and keep in mind, they know much more than we do.
Here is a summary provided by the Coast Guard regarding the Posse Comitatus act:

"POSSE COMITATUS ACT" (18 USC 1385): A Reconstruction Era criminal law proscribing use of Army (later, Air Force) to "execute the laws" except where expressly authorized by Constitution or Congress. Limit on use of military for civilian law enforcement also applies to Navy by regulation. Dec '81 additional laws were enacted (codified 10 USC 371-78) clarifying permissible military assistance to civilian law enforcement agencies--including the Coast Guard--especially in combating drug smuggling into the United States. Posse Comitatus clarifications emphasize supportive and technical assistance (e.g., use of facilities, vessels, aircraft, intelligence, tech aid, surveillance, etc.) while generally prohibiting direct participation of DoD personnel in law enforcement (e.g., search, seizure, and arrests). For example, Coast Guard Law Enforcement Detachments (LEDETS) serve aboard Navy vessels and perform the actual boardings of interdicted suspect drug smuggling vessels and, if needed, arrest their crews). Positive results have been realized especially from Navy ship/aircraft involvement.

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-cp/comrel/factfile/Factcards/PosseComitatus.html

So, I suppose that the Pentagon's search for the sniper is within U.S. law as defined in 10 USC 371-78.

Andy
 

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I dunno...Support it or not, would it NOT be wise to keep any military involvement in the hunt for the sniper SECRET rather than public? Now that the snipers (no doubt monitoring the internet for any news regarding their activities) knows the military intelligence is involved would it not be wise for them to either lay low or move on to a different location, thus making the capture even more difficult?

Just a thought.
 
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The HACK said:
I dunno...Support it or not, would it NOT be wise to keep any military involvement in the hunt for the sniper SECRET rather than public? Now that the snipers (no doubt monitoring the internet for any news regarding their activities) knows the military intelligence is involved would it not be wise for them to either lay low or move on to a different location, thus making the capture even more difficult?

Just a thought.
although he/she/they seem to be thriving on the challenge. The last murder was awfully risky too, it would seem
 

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dredmo said:
An AWACS bird, can automatically catch a muzzle flash, in broad daylight, even if it is looking in the opposite direction. Once caught, the flee-er or persons will be tracked instantly no matter where they run. If it saves even one person's life, it is worth it.

I have worked with AWACS for a number of years, and while it is an awesome platform, this type of detection is not in its quiver of arrows. I can't go into specifics as I am sure you understand...but please trust me that I know what I am talking about on this one. Visible spectrum light analysis, infrared detection and tracking targets the size of humans in urban ground clutter isn't there for an E-3.

The New York Times today is reporting that the aircraft to be used is an RC-7. Apperently the AF ownes these, but I have never heard of one durring my current service. My guess is it is a highly specialized plane and only a couple of the platforms exist. I will have to search around for that one...:dunno:

I too don't see the issue with the DoD offering support. How different is this from the countless high mountian rescues that the AF and Army have performed over the years, or the searches for missing children, or the fact that the FBI's Hostage Response Team and the Department of Energy's NEST team recieve their tactical training from Army Special forces?

I could see concern if the military was being called on to apply force on a target, or if active duty military (read NOT National Guard!) were patrolling the streets. In this instance, it is a survailence platform with local/federal law inforcement on board the aircraft to analyize and interperate the data. The Air Force is doing nothing but giving the police a new tool to work with.
 

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Desertnate said:


I have worked with AWACS for a number of years, and while it is an awesome platform, this type of detection is not in its quiver of arrows. I can't go into specifics as I am sure you understand...but please trust me that I know what I am talking about on this one. Visible spectrum light analysis, infrared detection and tracking targets the size of humans in urban ground clutter isn't there for an E-3.

The New York Times today is reporting that the aircraft to be used is an RC-7. Apperently the AF ownes these, but I have never heard of one durring my current service. My guess is it is a highly specialized plane and only a couple of the platforms exist. I will have to search around for that one...:dunno:

I too don't see the issue with the DoD offering support. How different is this from the countless high mountian rescues that the AF and Army have performed over the years, or the searches for missing children, or the fact that the FBI's Hostage Response Team and the Department of Energy's NEST team recieve their tactical training from Army Special forces?

I could see concern if the military was being called on to apply force on a target, or if active duty military (read NOT National Guard!) were patrolling the streets. In this instance, it is a survailence platform with local/federal law inforcement on board the aircraft to analyize and interperate the data. The Air Force is doing nothing but giving the police a new tool to work with.
I worked on them too, I know it can detect a muzzle flash if it is anyways in its LOS, even if focused elsewhere. I also know it can track a vehicle, and or human, from altitude of course excluding the obvious lucky get away, or guy runs into bushes, and dissappears. Maybe I made it sound too capable. Thanks for correcting me.
 

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The HACK said:
I dunno...Support it or not, would it NOT be wise to keep any military involvement in the hunt for the sniper SECRET rather than public? Now that the snipers (no doubt monitoring the internet for any news regarding their activities) knows the military intelligence is involved would it not be wise for them to either lay low or move on to a different location, thus making the capture even more difficult?

Just a thought.
I'm with you on this one HACK. Lesson one from my experience with operational security and tactical deception is NEVER let the enemy know what you have got. Unfortunatly there is a large portion of the population that hold the military highly suspect and feel that they are part of "Big Brother" out to violate their civil liberties. At least this way everything is out in the open and conspiricy theories won't start popping up with the sighting of a really odd looking plane cruising around the DC area with USAF markings.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
The HACK said:
I dunno...Support it or not, would it NOT be wise to keep any military involvement in the hunt for the sniper SECRET rather than public? Now that the snipers (no doubt monitoring the internet for any news regarding their activities) knows the military intelligence is involved would it not be wise for them to either lay low or move on to a different location, thus making the capture even more difficult?

Just a thought.
Well, I agree with you. On the other hand, I think some of our government leaders were probably perceiving pressure on them to "do something" about the situation. So, announcing their intentions probably makes them feel like they look responsive to the situation.

Andy
 

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Hack, if thats the case, then why would they release a vehicle description? I mean, the guy could have changed vehicles knowing that his vehicle description is in the news....
 

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Hey all!

None of you know me - I'm a BF.com refugee. I was in the military 93 - 97. I was a corpsman that worked with the Marines and then I decided to go SpecWar. I went to BUDs 14 Mar 94. I've had some training here and there. I thought you'd like some tips if you're around the DC area.

Now on to business…
This Sniper killing people in the DC Metro area is a skilled sharpshooter and very calculated. Unfortunately he appears very disturbed and has just left a calling card stating he was God.
It is very important that you adjust your regular routine because this is a very deadly individual. I am going to give you my personal/professional advice on the matter.

The Sniper’s MO (his methods) are the following.
a. 1st wave of attacks were concentrated in an area the suspect was very familiar with.
b. It appears these initial attacks were closer, probably less than 100 yards away. Witnesses were hearing loud cracks.
c. He definitely is showing off. He is trying to maintain 100 %, one shot for one kill. (Sniper’s creed).
d. He is probably not shooting the first person that appears. He is looking for the highest probable kill. This encompasses distance, position, and movement of the individual and excludes physical barriers (vehicles, tress, columns, etc).
e. He is shooting from areas adjacent to major roadways, thoroughfares, highways, etc. (quick egress). First group was within a couple of miles from beltway. Child shot in Bowie was a block away from the US 50 on the 197.
f. He went up to northern Virginia (70 miles away) to throw police off his trail (diversion, used by snipers for stalking targets and eluding enemy).
g. He is making this to be a giant ‘Stalk’ around the Metro area. It is a game now. He wants them to come after him (like he is in his own war against the enemy).
h. He is probably using any foliage (tree line, woods, bushes) that is around the malls, shopping center, gas stations, and parking lots.
i. He is able to shoot accurately out to 500 yards (5 football fields) with or without a scope (depends on individual’s abilities).
j. The farther out he/she is, the more difficult of course it is to detect or pinpoint location. This aids in egress as well. (He knows this).
My advice to you all is to consider the following.

1. Avoid unnecessary errands.
2. Bring someone along.
3. Do not stand outside your vehicle grabbing things out the car.
4. If you go to the store, put items in back seat of car (nothing in trunk) so that you can grab items and exit quickly.
5. When slowing down or at a stop, keep windows closed (glass deflects bullets, he knows this and he is not shooting through glass anymore).
6. Never walk straight to a door more than 20 feet away. Zig zag and walk at angels. The shooter is setting up on doorways/entrances and waiting for victims to line up on entrance. The hardest shot for a sniper is a target traversing laterally to his/her position (perpendicular, see Diag. 1).· Walk between cars, use them for protection, and NEVER walk in a straight line to a doorway. Park as close as possible. (See Diag. 2)
 

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Ripsnort said:
Hack, if thats the case, then why would they release a vehicle description? I mean, the guy could have changed vehicles knowing that his vehicle description is in the news....
I sort of thought the same thing...I wonder if the investigation actively leaked that information or if some overzealous press investigator dug that up, or if that's official eye witness account. :dunno:

I'm a little suspicious of the fact that said military involvement is announced publicly. Sounds too much like politicians are under-pressure to EASE the public mind and it's mostly a publicity stunt and no real substantive cooperation will result from this. I mean, it's pretty much defeated all purpose of a military intelligence effort when the perps are told that they're being watched.
 
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kapolani said:
Hey all!

None of you know me - I'm a BF.com refugee. I was in the military 93 - 97. I was a corpsman that worked with the Marines and then I decided to go SpecWar. I went to BUDs 14 Mar 94. I've had some training here and there. I thought you'd like some tips if you're around the DC area.

Now on to business…
:confused: :confused: :confused:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13865
 

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AndyMonro said:


Well, I agree with you. On the other hand, I think some of our government leaders were probably perceiving pressure on them to "do something" about the situation. So, announcing their intentions probably makes them feel like they look responsive to the situation.

Andy
That's what makes me apprehensive...They (government officials) are just making loud noises to bolster their public image at the expense of the investigation.

Unless of course this would fall under some sort of law where once caught, a cleaver lawyer can claim some sort of infringement on Constitutional rights, and to cover all bases they have to file some sort of subpoena which will eventually become public record anyway so why not pre-empt that and announce it to the public.

Either way I think it's more for show than substance. Hopefully I am wrong and hopefully the perp(s) do get caught one way or another. :dunno:
 

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dredmo said:
An AWACS bird, can automatically catch a muzzle flash, in broad daylight, even if it is looking in the opposite direction.
Ummm...I think you need to read up on what an AWACS is... (Airborne warning and Control system)

It doesn't support that kind of intel.

There are platforms that do however.
 
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