Bimmerfest BMW banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
My Lexus RX 450h (mild hybrid SUV) lease is up soon and I am considering switching over to X5 45e. This my third Lexus SUV and my first hybrid, so my question is two-fold.

First of all, anything I should be concerned about switching from Lexus to BMW? I keep hearing that BMWs are not as reliable and have higher maintenance cost? Is this true, especially when it comes to X5? I am only planning to lease so I don’t really care about long term reliability.

Second of all, are there any inherent issues with the current generation of X5 and 45e in particular? It looks like this generation of X5 45e was introduced at the end of 2019 so I assume BMW already sorted out any new generation issues. For example, when I got my 2016 Lexus RX 350, it was the first of the redesign and it had a few issues like transmission hesitation and noisy A/C. Should I be concerned that BMW started selling the current generation X5 PHEV variant in the US only this June? Any idea why US launch was postponed by almost a year?

Thank you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
If you are doing a 3 year lease you will not have maintenance costs. I would compare the cost of leasing with a purchase given current interest rates. Leases are where dealerships make their highest profit margins. That profit comes from you!
 

·
Happily Driving
Joined
·
6,998 Posts
BMW isn't giving you any of the tax incentive on the 45e when you lease, so consider that in your decision.

https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1386117

If I remember correctly, BMW uses Toyota's hybrid tech, so you have that going for you in terms of reliability. Otherwise, since it's a lease, I don't think there is anything to worry about. You'll be either in your car or a comparable loaner while it's in the shop...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,254 Posts
BMW includes all required maintenance (at least in the USA) for the first 3-years. THis includes oil changes, wiper blades, etc. So, with the warranty included as well, you should not have any out of pocket maintenance costs unless you wear out or damage a wheel or tire. Considering that this will the the third model year on the vehicle, there really should be no teething problems. In the USA, the first ones you can buy are 2021 MY.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
196 Posts
BMW includes all required maintenance (at least in the USA) for the first 3-years. THis includes oil changes, wiper blades, etc. So, with the warranty included as well, you should not have any out of pocket maintenance costs unless you wear out or damage a wheel or tire. Considering that this will the the third model year on the vehicle, there really should be no teething problems. In the USA, the first ones you can buy are 2021 MY.
I think they took away the wiper blades.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
BMW isn't giving you any of the tax incentive on the 45e when you lease, so consider that in your decision.

If I remember correctly, BMW uses Toyota's hybrid tech, so you have that going for you in terms of reliability. Otherwise, since it's a lease, I don't think there is anything to worry about. You'll be either in your car or a comparable loaner while it's in the shop...
I doubt it or may be just small part of it. Lexus/Toyota uses Power Split Device (PSD) in their hybrids which works similar to CVT but is much more reliable - basically a planetary gear set. X5 45e simply has an 8 speed transmission.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
BMW includes all required maintenance (at least in the USA) for the first 3-years. THis includes oil changes, wiper blades, etc. So, with the warranty included as well, you should not have any out of pocket maintenance costs unless you wear out or damage a wheel or tire. Considering that this will the the third model year on the vehicle, there really should be no teething problems. In the USA, the first ones you can buy are 2021 MY.
Wow - I wonder why BMW USA doesn't prominently show this info on the website. I found it buried under "Warranty" in the "Pricing & Features" section: https://www.bmwusa.com/explore/bmw-value/bmw-maintenance/terms-and-conditions.html.

So, is all the required maintenance included in this free 3-year BMW Ultimate Care program?
Looking at what's covered I see that tire rotation is excluded. Actually, I don't see any mention of tire rotation in the X5 maintenance manual. Any idea why? I thought that any car needs its tires rotated every 5,000 miles.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
So, I still would like to know BMW owner experience, X5 experience in particular, in terms of reliability. How reliable are new X5s for the first three years? I heard some horror stories of people going to the dealer every 6 months for various fixes and recalls. I know everything is covered under warranty but who wants a hassle of going to the dealer every few months?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,424 Posts
One gotcha will bet hte last of a spare tire with the 45e. Spare tires are optional on the other versions of the X5. X5's come with run-flat tires, which can produce a rough ride, they wear out fast, they're expensive to replace, and if driven flat must be replaced.
 

·
Nuclear engineer
02/2012 X5 35d M57Y CPO 98K miles NOKIAN WR G3 12K miles
Joined
·
16,576 Posts
So, I still would like to know BMW owner experience, X5 experience in particular, in terms of reliability. How reliable are new X5s for the first three years? I heard some horror stories of people going to the dealer every 6 months for various fixes and recalls. I know everything is covered under warranty but who wants a hassle of going to the dealer every few months?
I consider my X5 relatively reliable as compared to my perfectly reliable 2003 VW TDI previous car.

Mine X5 is long out of warranty and I do plan on seeing a BMW Service Center about twice per year. In the spring in Florida for periodic service and warranty issues, and in the fall in Appleton for usually having a work list (though maybe not this fall).

Maybe some people should just step down to a Toyota Lexus or some other appliance car; does Black & Decker make a car yet, they should.
 

·
Happily Driving
Joined
·
6,998 Posts
Wow - I wonder why BMW USA doesn't prominently show this info on the website. I found it buried under "Warranty" in the "Pricing & Features" section: https://www.bmwusa.com/explore/bmw-value/bmw-maintenance/terms-and-conditions.html.

So, is all the required maintenance included in this free 3-year BMW Ultimate Care program?
Looking at what's covered I see that tire rotation is excluded. Actually, I don't see any mention of tire rotation in the X5 maintenance manual. Any idea why? I thought that any car needs its tires rotated every 5,000 miles.
The free maintenance is: 1. Annual or 10k miles oil/filter change 2. Cabin Air Filter 3. Brake Fluid Change @ 3 years. It is performed solely based on the iDrive decision of required maintenance. The other stuff listed in their page is unlikely to be needed to be maintained.

BMW's required maintenance seems to magically change to whatever they are willing to do for free. Everything else is an add-on or on your own.

Also, last I checked, BMW actually recommended against tire rotations.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,424 Posts
Wow - I wonder why BMW USA doesn't prominently show this info on the website. I found it buried under "Warranty" in the "Pricing & Features" section: https://www.bmwusa.com/explore/bmw-value/bmw-maintenance/terms-and-conditions.html.

So, is all the required maintenance included in this free 3-year BMW Ultimate Care program?
Looking at what's covered I see that tire rotation is excluded. Actually, I don't see any mention of tire rotation in the X5 maintenance manual. Any idea why? I thought that any car needs its tires rotated every 5,000 miles.
BMW's changed their minds on tire rotation several times: don't, side-to-side only, front-to-back only, and "consult a BMW center."

Many BMW's have staggered set-ups, rear tires and wheels larger than the front, and the tires can't be rotated front-to-back.

The rear tires wear faster and differently than the front ones. One of the reasons BMW advised against rotation is that if you end up with different wear patterns on the tires on the same axle it can cause the car to pull to one side.

If you have a square set-up, rotation will benefit you by keeping the wear patterns similar on all four tires.

Here's another gotcha. RFT's wear out fast. BMW FS requires 4/32" of tread on lease turn-ins to avoid an "excessive tire wear" fee. With rotation you stand a much better chance of putting 30k or 36k miles on the tires and still have at lease 4/32" of tread left at turn in. (Maybe that's another reason they don't recommend tire rotation.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,254 Posts
Basic thing, that some forget, when rotating the tires, always reset the pressure and the TPMS system. I have a square setup on both of my BMWs, and swap F/R when I switch to winter tires and back. Seems to help. I expect I'll do the same on my X5 whenever it gets built (hopefully, soon!).

I did not notice a rough ride on the X5 45e that I test drove...the F/R air suspension seemed to be better going over speed bumps, than my current vehicles, and I didn't notice any excessive tire noise or harshness. Now, had there been a standard tired vehicle to directly compare it to, may feel differently.

The tread compound and carcass design will have a big affect on how well the vehicle rides and handles. A rougher ride will almost always occur if you choose one of the optional, larger wheels as they have a shorter sidewall, so must be stiffer. That is true of any tire, not specific to RFT. TOday's RFT ride better than the original ones, but still have a ways to go to match the equivalently sized normal tire. Each year, they get closer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
One gotcha will bet hte last of a spare tire with the 45e. Spare tires are optional on the other versions of the X5. X5's come with run-flat tires, which can produce a rough ride, they wear out fast, they're expensive to replace, and if driven flat must be replaced.
I don't quite understand what you are saying. Does 45e come with a spare tire or not? Are run-flats standard or optional?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,254 Posts
None of the BMWs come with a spare tire any more or a jack or tire wrench. On the 45e, I think the batteries take up the space where the optional one would go on the ICE versions. So, yes, the X5 comes standard with RFT. THat's your only choice on the 45e.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
None of the BMWs come with a spare tire any more or a jack or tire wrench. On the 45e, I think the batteries take up the space where the optional one would go on the ICE versions. So, yes, the X5 comes standard with RFT. THat's your only choice on the 45e.
Yes, I now see that all 45e wheel options have all-season run-flat tires. Same goes for 40i.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
733 Posts
I can only speak to my own experience. I found that in coming from Toyota Motor Corporation to BMW that there was a bigger difference between dealers within each brand than between the two brands. There are good and bad dealers everywhere, and there are good and bad service advisors everywhere. My experience was also that both Toyota and BMW are vastly inferior to Honda/Acura in terms of warranty beyond the basic "new vehicle limited warranty" that's basically bumper-to-bumper for across the industry. Also, BMWs demonstrate a kind of Teutonic overengineering that not everyone appreciates. For example, I had a leaky washer fluid reservoir. That meant they had to remove an entire front fender, replace the offending gasket, reinstall the reservoir, reinstall the front fender, realign the body parts and seams to factory perfection (twice), and then finally fill the tank with BMW-branded washer fluid ONLY, but diluted with distilled water ONLY per the (metric) formula to suit the ambient air temperature at the time of service. No, not kidding. Not kidding at all.

In my case, that all happened under warranty. But imagine that level of attention when it's all out-of-pocket at 51,000 miles.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,424 Posts
I don't quite understand what you are saying. Does 45e come with a spare tire or not? Are run-flats standard or optional?
Sorry... type. "...lack of a spare tire." As jadnashuanh said, the volume under the cargo floor is taken up with batteries on the 45e. You also loose the option for spare tire if you get the 3rd row seats.

Many BMW's now offer non-rut-flat tires as options. But, the X5 isn't one of them. I ordered non-RFT's on Frau Putzer's X3. They were free and they the spare came at no cost.

Having a spare also means that I can rotate my own tires, using the spare as a "place holder." When I get a puncture, I can put on the spare and take the flat tire in for repairs with another car. I have to take punctured tires 92 miles (one-way) to get somebody with a lever-less tire machine.

They were almost giving away leases on the X5 40e when we got the X3. But, the lack of a spare put the kabash on that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,411 Posts
I did not analyze this for 45e, but generally speaking I do not think this is correct statement. I expect that the federal rebate is considered in the monthly payments.

BMW isn't giving you any of the tax incentive on the 45e when you lease, so consider that in your decision.

If I remember correctly, BMW uses Toyota's hybrid tech, so you have that going for you in terms of reliability. Otherwise, since it's a lease, I don't think there is anything to worry about. You'll be either in your car or a comparable loaner while it's in the shop...
 

·
Happily Driving
Joined
·
6,998 Posts
I did not analyze this for 45e, but generally speaking I do not think this is correct statement. I expect that the federal rebate is considered in the monthly payments.
Per the sticky in this forum:

John Shafer said:
And the not-so-great:

For LEASING SCENARIOS, there is no BMW Lease Credit (to approximate the FTC as we've done with other PHEVs in the past) planned for this new vehicle at this time.


I am only pointing this out now because I have been fielding inquiry email about this all week, and confirmed with BMWNA today.
https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1386117
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top