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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So this may be an absolutely ridiculous question on my end, but i was at a BMW dealership today going through negotiations on a 2011 328xi lease for 3yrs/12K p/yr. We finally agreed price and monthly pymt only to have the CA come back and say their caclulations were wrong because they used a 71% residual instead of the 62%. Needless to say, it resulted in an increase of $100 vs our original monthly pymt.

In any case, they came back and gave me some numbers for the 27mth lease which uses the 71% residual. I reluctantly (totally my bad) agreed to this. I was tired, been there for 4.5 hours. And now i'm regretting it. I signed the pre-lease lease agreement with them but i am now having second thoughts.

Also, the car is not at their dealership and they have to try and negotiate a trade with the dealer that it's at. So i gave them a 2K deposit to complete the transfer.

Is there anything i can do to get out of this....?
 

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Most States have a 3 day rule on car purchases and leases. That means you have three days to change your mind and back out. Even if your state does not have such laws, tell them you decided against the deal. Also, since you never took possession, you should be able to pull out. I once bought a new Eclipse, the first model made 1989, and I had my other car with me. The dealer sent two people to drive me and the new car 40 miles home so I would take delivery before I changed my mind.

Let us know how it goes. I am pulling for you.
 

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Oh yeah, and put a stop on the check or if a credit card deposit call the CC bank and tell them to cancel the charge. I see no reason why you should not get out of this deal with which you are not satisfied.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks for the reply. Now the contract i signed was called a "pre-lease" agreement (motor vehicle pre-lease agreement)...i mean technically, i haven't purchased they vehicle. They have to wait till monday to start negotiations with the other dealership. I just don't want to come across like i'm playing with games with them by rescinding this offer. I mean - they were barely willing to give me invoice, which they didn't..this after 2hrs. So i'm not sure if they're going to be very agreeable and make things difficult for me.

Here's my #'s -
MSRP: 44,2
Negotiated: 40,8K (includes $1500 conquest cash, $1500 dealer discount, $1000 Build Out cash/option)
$0 Down Pymt
71% Residual, 27mths, 27K miles
1mth +TTR on delivery
monthly pymt = $508.

Thoughts??? I was thinking to just take it and then possible trade-out of my lease in a year or so since the one i really wanted was the new F30. Do you know how hard it is to trade-up/out of leases or how soon you can?

Thanks for the info!
 

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Thanks for the reply. Now the contract i signed was called a "pre-lease" agreement (motor vehicle pre-lease agreement)...i mean technically, i haven't purchased they vehicle. They have to wait till monday to start negotiations with the other dealership. I just don't want to come across like i'm playing with games with them by rescinding this offer. I mean - they were barely willing to give me invoice, which they didn't..this after 2hrs. So i'm not sure if they're going to be very agreeable and make things difficult for me.

Here's my #'s -
MSRP: 44,2
Negotiated: 40,8K (includes $1500 conquest cash, $1500 dealer discount, $1000 Build Out cash/option)
$0 Down Pymt
71% Residual, 27mths, 27K miles
1mth +TTR on delivery
monthly pymt = $508.

Thoughts??? I was thinking to just take it and then possible trade-out of my lease in a year or so since the one i really wanted was the new F30. Do you know how hard it is to trade-up/out of leases or how soon you can?

Thanks for the info!
I will leave this question to others who are more familiar with pricing and leases.

But, don't be afraid to hurt their feelings. First of all they played you on the numbers. I don't think that was a mistake. Call them tomorrow if you don't want the car and tell them. If you want it then go through with it.

Buyers remorse is tough I know. Buying a new car should ALWAYS be fun. You are the customer and you should feel good about the purchase so tell them how you feel. Remember, they need the sale.
 

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Crazy. My negotiation was 10 minutes over the phone. $750 over.

4.5 hours???? Amazing.

Anyway. WHAT DID YOU SIGN? You have a copy, just read it and see what it says about cancellation.

It ALL depends on what you signed and the laws in WISCONSIN...any advice from people about 'their states' is just silly.

In my opinion, it is most likely that this is not binding and you can cancel if you want. Black out your personal data, scan it and post it- you'll get a read from others.
 

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Which dealer is this? I am in Madison and have dealt with a couple of dealers around here. I'd be happy to share my experiences if you need a hand :)
 

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Back out of the deal. Call them ASAP, tell them you are cancelling the order and the check, before they begin locating the car.

They managed to confuse you and sold the car for $600 ABOVE the MSRP. You lucked out it was a dealer trade and you have not taken the delivery of the car.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
So i carefully read over the contract this morning and came across the following stipulations:
#1 - This a binding pre-lease agreement. By signing this, you will become obligated to enter into an agreement with the dealer to lease the MV described in this agreement.
#2 - Penalty for not taking the delivery is a cost of no more than 5% of the Captilized reduction cost.

They don't have the car and don't even know if they can get it for sure. There is no expected delivery date identified on the contract either.

But more importantly, if i'm going to pay this much for a 2011 - i'd rather wait for the new 2012's and actually get what i wanted - the F30. The only reason i was entertaining the 2011's is b/c their "perceived" to be great incentives on them, but if the dealer is really only disct it $1500??? Why go with the 2011...rather wait.

I'm just in awe that in December, dealers refuse to negotiate at or near invoice. It's crazy to me...
 

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So i carefully read over the contract this morning and came across the following stipulations:
#1 - This a binding pre-lease agreement. By signing this, you will become obligated to enter into an agreement with the dealer to lease the MV described in this agreement.
#2 - Penalty for not taking the delivery is a cost of no more than 5% of the Captilized reduction cost.

They don't have the car and don't even know if they can get it for sure. There is no expected delivery date identified on the contract either.

But more importantly, if i'm going to pay this much for a 2011 - i'd rather wait for the new 2012's and actually get what i wanted - the F30. The only reason i was entertaining the 2011's is b/c their "perceived" to be great incentives on them, but if the dealer is really only disct it $1500??? Why go with the 2011...rather wait.

I'm just in awe that in December, dealers refuse to negotiate at or near invoice. It's crazy to me...
First, DO NOT do anything until you know where you stand and have a legal strategy. Just whining and making noises will not be effective. You will put them on notice and they may circle the wagons.

Is the "MV" fully described in the agreement? ie could you make an argument that the agreement is void since it does not adequately describe the item??? Color, model, trims, options, etc.

Without seeing the ins and outs of the agreement it is impossible to proceed. Spend a few hundred and talk to an atty.

Clearly no helpful dealers here will chime in...afterall, they are in the business of selling cars, not helping customers who have screwed up.

Expensive lesson. Lots of dealers negotiating at 500 over invoice on 2012s....
 

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Two things:

A) the "three day cooling off period" that one of the early replies mentions just doesn't exist in most states. You have no recourse there. Car sales are final. BUT.....

B) this sale is not final until you sign the actual lease and take delivery. A "pre-lease agreement" is typically not binding. Sounds like it has a lot of legalize to scare you, but I'd check your state's laws on deposits and I'd bet you can cancel. Wouldn't be the first time I've seen a purchase order go further than what the law actually allows.
 

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Clearly no helpful dealers here will chime in...afterall, they are in the business of selling cars, not helping customers....
Some of us work on weekends...

:)

Never heard of a "Pre-Lease Agreement" either in Law School or 25 years in the car business.

I suspect it is not a legal / binding contract, just as SARAFIL said, but rather "glue" to reinforce your commitment to follow-through with the transaction.
 

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My new tactic is to piss you guys off a bit so you chime in.... unnecessary? Prolly.... :)

I agree with the assessment, but we live in CA...OP is in Wisconsin... not sure how consumer protections are there, regarding car purchases.

http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/safety/consumer/car/wisebuys.htm#binding-contract

http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/safety/consumer/car/no3day-car.htm

"If you order a new vehicle to be delivered at a later date and the vehicle is not delivered within 15 days of the anticipated delivery date recorded on the purchase contract, you can cancel the contract without penalty."

OP states there is no delivery date. It may then not meet the statutory requirements to be a binding contract under WI law.

Then: http://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/429.pdf

Finally: http://www.dot.state.wi.us/business/dealers/docs/salesmanual.pdf

Note that the pre-lease agreement must contain the items on Page 11. You will note the fourth bullet states there can be no blank lines except the VIN.

So....

If there IS a blank line for the date, I would type up a letter, cite the law, mail and fax, and tell them as the pre-lease contract is not binding you wish to cancel. And then DO NOT take their calls. Make them send you letters. Do not email.
 

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Looks like ard pulled a lot of information to help you in a very short time. Sounds like you should be able to build a case pretty easily. Jump on it and get it sorted out TODAY before they begin the search, and fax and mail them a letter. Good luck.
 

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I would first call them, inform them you want to cancel the agreement and have the deposit check returned. Be firm on the cancellation but don't get into the legal aspect of it. Because your reason for cancellation is not that the agreement was improperly prepared.

I think the dealer will likely just return the check, especially if you insist on it or else you will cancel the heck.

Only if the dealer resists your request and starts to cite the specific languages of the agreement and/or the state law, should you respond accordingly. But only respond while making sure they understand you will cancel the check and not take the delivery of the car.

The reason I would do it ASAP is so the dealer does not waste time leader-trade the car for you. The less effort they have put in the deal, the more justification you have to back out of the lease.

I will however never at the first attempt, simply fax them a bunch of legal analyses and accuse them of getting you to sign a improper agreement, then shut them out, hoping it would go away.

Having said that, if I understand the fine prints the OP just quoted, he can actually back out of the agreement by paying no more than $100 - 5% of the $2,000 "capitalized reduction cost."
 

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^^ Why call??

You do realize that the salesman could say anything at all- he could agree with you and say 'it's cancelled'...and never tell his bosses, and they get the car in and call you to come pick it up.

He has to document his actions- what he includes (legal, etc) is his choice. I would not give them details, but I would absolutely NOT be mealy mouthed about it.

I guess there is a feeling he should be nice first, hope for the best, then escalate. Also, I see many people saying 'do it quickly, so the dealer doesnt do much work, and therefore you'll be justified'...I'd like to think so, and you and I think like that, but this is a dealer that sweated the OP for 4.5 hours and pulled a few fast ones. I am sure they'll be happy to cancel :rolleyes: There are more than a few members who have been jerked around by SAs over the phone with all sorts of BS...

Finally, WI law allows 5% of the "capitalized cost"...although I note the OP listed 'capitalized cost reduction".. $100 is not a big deal, but I'd make sure he has the right terms. 5% of 2000 is fine, 5% of 50,000 isnt.

Finally, 'all sorts of legal analyses'? Just a letter cancelling based on the agreement being void under the Wisconsin motor vehicle consumer lease act. And 'shut them out'? Just make them put it in writing, how is that shutting them out?

Lets see what the OP does....
 

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Of course when I said call them ASAP, I didn't mean call them, get the OK on the phone, then wait and hope they mail the check back.

The dealer should be told of the intention as soon as possible, to avoid unnecessary activities.

If they agree on the phone, go down get the check back. But it is only fair they are notified ASAP of a cancellation.

The fact we are speculating the meaning of the term "capital cost reduction," demonstrates that the OP, like most of us, are not attorneys, I don't play one when I know I am not one, especially when my reason for cancellation is not because of the legality of the agreement.

When you play more than you can handle, the other side can play the same game, only that they can handle it.

If the call gets me nowhere, then I would go there in person to discuss the cancellation. If that does not work, I would consult an attorney.

BTW all my actions are written down as a matter of record. It is the most natural reaction a buyer would take on such a process. If you start by doing like a lawyer, and in the end you need a legal action to resolve the issue, there is the question of whether you acted in good faith or not in the first place.

It would be difficult for a legal-minded person to claim a victim of legal manipulation, when in fact there isn't one.
 

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Whatever.

"I don't play one when I know I am not one, especially when my reason for cancellation is not because of the legality of the agreement." What a foolish statement. A smart person tells them NO REASON, simply "I am cancelling, the agreement is void."

Finally, "Legal-minded"? Really? and who is saying anything about 'legal manipulation'?
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Okay guys...so here's where i'm at with this. Thanks for all the perspectives. So simililar to "ard" - i did find the actual form on the Wisconsin DOT website and am essentially banking on the blanks in No. 12 ( lack of delivery date). In addition, regarding the Penalty section, there is no specified amount listed there, even though there is a space to enter a % amount.

Dealerships in MKE are closed on sunday, so i left an email stating that i would just like to cancel the order ASAP I also CC'd the finance manager on the email. I did not state the reason, just that i didn't want to waste anymore of anyone's time - mine included. I also left a VM for the CA that i was working with stating the same and that i would like my 2K deposit put back on my debit card.

Honestly, I did a tremondous amount of research prior to my visit with them. I had my spreadsheets, MF's, residuals, invoice pricing lists, current incentives, other dealer prices for essentially the same type of car - at least from a price-point perspective.

The CA i was working with was new...4mths on the job and had very little knowledge about some of the incentives, what an MSD was, how to calculate an interest rate from a MF, etc....she even mentioned on multiple occasions that she's not used to working with such detailed/informed buyers. She pretty much said that most people that buy BMW's just want the dealer to give them a price and that's it. That they don't really have to "negotiate" at all.

All in all...i thought i was pretty well prepared. Unfortunately, what i have come to realize is that even with all that preparation, i'm just not good at knowing when to walk away - which i believe is the cardinal rule to negotiations. I gave the 2K deposit as sign of good faith and that i was serious - not a shopper, but a buyer. I think they just wore me down.

So, we'll see how it goes today...i'll post an update once i talk with her. Ultimately, i want to keep this as humane as possible. I see know reason to pull the "legal" card yet. I believe/hope they'll just let me walk - especially since i was there such a long time on saturday with no sale to show for it, they have to focus on meeting their year-end quotas and sales.

Lastly, just one point for clarification...a lot of you referenced the OP as a "he" - i'd like to correct that and state the OP is a "she". :)
 
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