BimmerFest BMW Forum banner
1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
OK... so I am having a difficult experience at my local dealership trying to finalize a deal on an '06 330i as my girlfriend's '04 325i lease ends. The Client Advisor we are working with didn't really make a good early impression... the "end of lease inspection" appointment she "had" to have several months ago was obviously a sales lure once we showed up. (We both would have been fine with a simple, straightforward invitation to visit the dealership, not a "you have to bring both sets of your keys"... since this is not really an inspection at all but my attempt to put you in a new car today routine.)

Aside from that, the CA was polite as we sorted out this week which car would work best for her. After initially thinking she'd wait for an '07 model, she decided to grab one of the remaining '06 models. After doing our homework (much of which was right here at bimmerfest)... we went in to work up a deal on an '06.

Much to my dismay, we were unable to reach a deal. Now, that's certainly something I can't fault the dealership for, since I am well aware it's a business and if a deal doesn't work for them... they have no obligation to make it work. What I'd like to know (there really is a question in this thread) are a few simple things like:

1. The "buy" or base money factor rate - do dealers ever make deals right at that number? The CA informed me that his dealership can't do a deal at the base money factor rate, that instead that is their "buy rate". His "best" deal was right at the .0004 spread that other posts have said is the maximum a dealer can mark up the MF... only after a lengthy wait did it miraculously fall to a spread of .00023 (but never to the base MF rate).

2. He also said the $825 acquisition fee is set by BMW. When I politely said I thought the actual fee could range from $625 to $825, he replied that no, the $825 fee was set by BMW. $200 wouldn't break the deal, but not being upfront certainly impacts the rest of what I am hearing.

Other similar fees and add-ons were absolutely non-negotiable, like the $399 documentation fee, the $400 MACO (no problem with me on that), the $200 training/sales literature fee, etc.

Maybe these seem like minor points (unless you're my girlfriend who's making the payments), but the overall attitude of the CA was indignation that I was even looking to negotiate. His final argument was something along the lines of his dealeship was the largest in the southeast and they had an 85 loaner car fleet to maintain - they can't discount their cars because they have to allow for their overhead, etc.

Believe me, I know I'm not trying to buy a Chevy at invoice... but I also don't want to play games.

Am I off base?
 

·
Rocket Scientist
Joined
·
1,455 Posts
Deals at the money factor buy rate and the lease acquisition fee buy amount of $625 are definitely doable. I've done them on my last three BMWs. The MACO and System & Training I live with because the dealer gets invoiced by BMWNA for them (even if they might get a form of hold back known as Advance Payments - if memory serves). The documentation fee you're being quoted is a total rip off but I can't say what is common, or even legal, in your state. In California I believe it's limited by regulation to $45 or some such (at least that's what my dealer charges, I can't quibble when I'm squeezing them everyway from Sunday). If you're working up a deal from invoice the dealer may want to include a PDI (pre-delivery inspection) charge, really more for cleaning the car, I don't know if they or BMWNA pays for the mechanic's labor to actually do the pre-delivery mechanical check and memory settings. I'm okay with $100 although I've had them take it back out when their new detailers did a crap job.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,193 Posts
You should be able to get buy rates, you can get $625 acquisition but if they try to tell you it's $825 then I wouldn't try much harder with them..I hate working with sales guys that know everything and try to tell you how to buy the car. As long as you can keep your emotions out of it, their patience will run out before yours and you will get the deal you want. I can't really say however how this works in real life situations as I have never negotiated a car at a dealership, always over the phone and email.
 

·
resU deretsigeR
Joined
·
6,259 Posts
We've found that dealer documentation fees are non-negotiable items. They were pre-printed on the last two contracts we signed. MACO and training are on the invoice so I wouldn't count those as a 'rip off' fee.


A.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,193 Posts
Instead of negotiating a price and then having them tack on everything else, don't talk price and instead negotiate a certain amount over invoice that will cover their profit and any other fees. Just because doc fee is pre printed on the purchase order doesn't mean it's non negotiable..All I said is I will pay up to $200 doc fee including tax title and tag, that was the end of it
 

·
Chairman of the Bored
Joined
·
3,303 Posts
sctrust said:
OK... so I am having a difficult experience at my local dealership trying to finalize a deal on an '06 330i as my girlfriend's '04 325i lease ends. The Client Advisor we are working with didn't really make a good early impression... the "end of lease inspection" appointment she "had" to have several months ago was obviously a sales lure once we showed up. (We both would have been fine with a simple, straightforward invitation to visit the dealership, not a "you have to bring both sets of your keys"... since this is not really an inspection at all but my attempt to put you in a new car today routine.)

Aside from that, the CA was polite as we sorted out this week which car would work best for her. After initially thinking she'd wait for an '07 model, she decided to grab one of the remaining '06 models. After doing our homework (much of which was right here at bimmerfest)... we went in to work up a deal on an '06.

Much to my dismay, we were unable to reach a deal. Now, that's certainly something I can't fault the dealership for, since I am well aware it's a business and if a deal doesn't work for them... they have no obligation to make it work. What I'd like to know (there really is a question in this thread) are a few simple things like:

1. The "buy" or base money factor rate - do dealers ever make deals right at that number? The CA informed me that his dealership can't do a deal at the base money factor rate, that instead that is their "buy rate". His "best" deal was right at the .0004 spread that other posts have said is the maximum a dealer can mark up the MF... only after a lengthy wait did it miraculously fall to a spread of .00023 (but never to the base MF rate).

2. He also said the $825 acquisition fee is set by BMW. When I politely said I thought the actual fee could range from $625 to $825, he replied that no, the $825 fee was set by BMW. $200 wouldn't break the deal, but not being upfront certainly impacts the rest of what I am hearing.

Other similar fees and add-ons were absolutely non-negotiable, like the $399 documentation fee, the $400 MACO (no problem with me on that), the $200 training/sales literature fee, etc.

Maybe these seem like minor points (unless you're my girlfriend who's making the payments), but the overall attitude of the CA was indignation that I was even looking to negotiate. His final argument was something along the lines of his dealeship was the largest in the southeast and they had an 85 loaner car fleet to maintain - they can't discount their cars because they have to allow for their overhead, etc.

Believe me, I know I'm not trying to buy a Chevy at invoice... but I also don't want to play games.

Am I off base?
There are going to be a lot of people on this board "dismayed" if they think they are going to lease a new BMW for $800-$1,000 over invoice with buy money factor and $625 lease acquisition fee. You can take that to the bank.;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,193 Posts
dismayed? $800 over, buy rates, $625 acquisition, no doc fee here
 

·
European Car Fanatic
Joined
·
125 Posts
Everything is negotiable !

I have to agree with lilskel above.

I completed a deal here in Nor Cal in 10 minutes for one of my good friends.

Base MF, and my CA even waived her MACO fee. He did mark up the Acq fee by $200.
And that's perfectly all right, when you're paying a few hundred above invoice for the car itself.

Just because you are buying or leasing a $50,000 car does not mean you can't negotiate.

At the end of the day, it is your money ! :thumbup:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Not Dismayed

Just leased a loaded (the way I wanted) 330i in the DC area:

$500 over invoice (+ubiquitous $100 doc. fee) - agreed to in 10-minutes via email
Money factor = 0.00175 (single security deposit)
Residual = 64% (3-years, 12,000 miles per)
Acquisition fee = $725 (I didn't protest over the $100 markup)

They wanted to markup the MF. I wouldn't do it. I guess they wanted to move the car even more. It took surprisingly little negotiation on my part. And yes, I received the usual 'freebies' and most current NAV DVD.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
6,126 Posts
EuroBay said:
I have to agree with lilskel above.

I completed a deal here in Nor Cal in 10 minutes for one of my good friends.

Base MF, and my CA even waived her MACO fee. He did mark up the Acq fee by $200.
And that's perfectly all right, when you're paying a few hundred above invoice for the car itself.

Just because you are buying or leasing a $50,000 car does not mean you can't negotiate.

At the end of the day, it is your money ! :thumbup:
Don't break your arm patting your back:angel: ...as it is also much easier to negotiate on a last legs outgoing model that is being replaced very soon:D

Real negotiation skills are needed on new hot models...
 

·
European Car Fanatic
Joined
·
125 Posts
greginaz1 said:
Don't break your arm patting your back:angel: ...as it is also much easier to negotiate on a last legs outgoing model that is being replaced very soon:D

Real negotiation skills are needed on new hot models...
That was funny ... :D

BTW, this is a 2007 5-series I was talking about here .... :bigpimp:

Whether a model is hot or not, personally - I never step into the dealership, except to sign ! :angel:
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
6,126 Posts
EuroBay said:
That was funny ... :D

BTW, this is a 2007 5-series I was talking about here .... :bigpimp:

Whether a model is hot or not, personally - I never step into the dealership, except to sign ! :angel:
Ah, good one then!!!:thumbup:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,307 Posts
Why dont you call our board sponsor Adrian Avilla who is based in Decauter, GA at Nalley BMW. I think they are running some specials right now and you should be able to get a good deal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,193 Posts
Running specials!?! The price should be the same the whole year if you get what you want
 

·
resU deretsigeR
Joined
·
6,259 Posts
DavidR said:
When buying a car EVERYTHING is negotiable. 400 doc fees??? I'd find another dealer, quick.
Doc fees do vary from one dealer to the next. I've never had sucess on getting those reduced, but I just picked one offer over another in part because the doc fees were much lower.
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top