[Alpejohn]

Hi rdl and others!

I reacently got my windshield changed due to a stone chip.
And ofcours my rain sensing wipers acted up after that.
They have been working fine as long as i have owned the car (6 years in january), a 08/2003 530d Sport Touring, with the RLS and auto headlights.

My problem isnt as bad as yours i think, but here is my situation:
The sensing partialy work, but it reacts to slow, it needs pretty much rain before it wipes. It seems as its not as sensitive as it was before.
And often when it finally realise that its raining heavyly and runs continously, it can suddenly stop and go in intermitent mode for a few wipes, then
start running again. Even in the high sensitivity mode on the wiper stalk.
But, a few times, its gotten super sensitive, and wiped like crazy when its just a few really small drops of water coming down.

Here is what i have tried:
-Initialized several times (using INPA)
-Removed the sensor and wiped off the diodes
-Cleaned the prism
-Bought a newer used sensor (from a 2008 X3)

The new sensor i tested yesterday, and i saw that it is programmed for E46, R50.. So i need to code it for my car today.
But the new sensor didnt help, at first test ride, it wiped a few times after i turned it on, then nothing.
But after a little while, when turning on the sensor the wipers would go continously and never stop.
So i guess it needs coding first.

But my old sensor had the "sensitivity" setting at 1 (as shown in the upper picture in INPA when looking at live data)
and the new sensor was 0.

The values that shows in the bottom of the live data page (the four at the bottom) shows a value of around 162 on all four, with both sensors.
I have some pics i took from the old and the new at home (at work no), i will post them later today, maybe you can have a look and see if you spot
any obvious problem.

This thing is driving me crazy.. I loved my wipers, but now they are F'ed up..
I will call the company that changed the windshield, and ask if they have had this problem alot.
Its not an orginal windshield.

Edit:
Just called the shop that changed the windshield!
They want me to come back so they can calibrate it, i told them that i alredy re-initialized it and that it didnt help.
But he wanted me to let them try again, and said that they should be able to fix it.
But theyr equipment was at service, so he will call me after the weekend.

Really hope they can fix it!

Regards
Fredrik
Norway

Edit:
Forgive me for my not perfect english.

 

[rdl]

...
I reacently got my windshield changed due to a stone chip.
And ofcours my rain sensing wipers acted up after that.
...
-Bought a newer used sensor (from a 2008 X3)

The new sensor i tested yesterday, and i saw that it is programmed for E46, R50.. So i need to code it for my car today.
...

I have some pics i took from the old and the new at home (at work no), i will post them later today, maybe you can have a look and see if you spot
any obvious problem.
...
Regards
Fredrik
Norway

Edit:
Forgive me for my not perfect english.

Yes, do post pictures of INPA values. I notice you have 9 posts. I believe you need to have 10 or 11 before you'll be able to attach pictures to your posts.

You will need to re-code the "new" RLS; E39 and E83 have different coding. But I suspect your "old" RLS module can be made to work properly. Have you read this post, which describes my problems with a new windshield & the solution being a new prism/lens?
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=800955
Perhaps your auto-glass shop will do that for you if other solutions don't work out.

BTW, your English is perfectly understandable; much better than many native English speakers posting here!

 

[Alpejohn]

Yes, do post pictures of INPA values. I notice you have 9 posts. I believe you need to have 10 or 11 before you'll be able to attach pictures to your posts.

You will need to re-code the "new" RLS; E39 and E83 have different coding. But I suspect your "old" RLS module can be made to work properly. Have you read this post, which describes my problems with a new windshield & the solution being a new prism/lens?
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=800955
Perhaps your auto-glass shop will do that for you if other solutions don't work out.

BTW, your English is perfectly understandable; much better than many native English speakers posting here!

Hi,
I think that the old one still works as you suspect. As it reacts, but to late. So i guess
the sensitivity needs to be adjusted. With NCS or something like that. But i will let the shop calibrate it and see first. I might try with the new one though, just to test and see if i can get it to work.

Regarding your post, i read it earlyer today. But will take a closer look later.

THe shop said that if they wasnt able to fix it, next step was to take it to a bmw dealer. I dont know who will pay for that but it wont be me, thats for sure.

I'll try coding the new RLS to see if it will do any difference tomorrow and keep you posted.

I will uploade the inpa pics later today.

I am glad you understand me. :rofl: Some words are more difficult to write then others.

Fredrik

 

[Alpejohn]

Oh.. My links wont work..

Maybe i can send them to you on a PM..
I created 2 albums.

Edit:

Add a . where it says [dot] and it should work (you might need to add https:// in front of it to)

Old RLS:
goo[dot]gl/photos/o3e4GgvsonfFmQmcA

New RLS.
goo[dot]gl/photos/59wxD1uBvEDegaFi9

Sorry for breaking the rules admins, i really like to contribute but its hard when i need 100 posts! :angel:

 

[rdl]

Oh.. My links wont work..

Maybe i can send them to you on a PM..
I created 2 albums.
...

:

I was able to open your albums.
However I can't find anything that suggests corrective action.
I still think that a new prism/lens is the best chance of success.

 

[Alpejohn]

Hi,

I coded the new sensor to my car this weekend, and it actually seems as its working fine!
I have only tested with the garden hose, but seems as it wipes, even with light water drops on the sensor.

Now im waiting for it to start raining.. (never thought i would say that :rofl: ) So i can
test it properly.


However, the sensitivity setting is set to 0 on this new sensor, and the old was 1.
So im looking forward to see if it works better then when the old sensor was working properly.


I'll keep you posted.

Fredrik

 

[davidjm]

I have a 2009 Pre Sept E61, the rain sensor has never worked. I get one wipe when the green light comes & one wipe when u adjust the sensitivity one notch.
When you un lach the RTL from the screen or just touch it (with the covers removed) it triggers one or more wipes but once latched in place no amount of rain starts it.
I bought the car 2nd hand but can see no evidence of a screen replacement. Tried the battery disconnected for 20 mins.
Any ideas ?

Thanks for the responses:
1) The screen marking say 'Guardian laminated' with no BMW in sight so suspect its been changed
2) My wiper stalk has no auto position - from the off postion I just press the button & the green light comes on with 1 wipe.. Press down for 1 wipe (leaves the green light on ). Press up once for slow and twice for fast (this turns off the green light)
3) I have keyless ignition - so no sure what postion one is anymore -
4) I read that the RTS is bonded the rear of the glass - but I can remove the whole sensor by freeing the 2 metal clips so there must be an air gap between it & the screen ? so where is bonding happening?
5) I found this instruction on how it works: (but not sure its my RLS)
http://www.micro-tronik.com/learnin...ing/technical-information/automotive/bmw-general-information/rain-light-sensor/
any idea how I carry out the initialisation - where are terminals 15 & R?

It appears that these rain sensors are attached to the screen with silicon seal. Mine has no such silicon in evidence & is held in place via 2 metal clips (I have the newer post 2010 circular drum type)
so my next step is buy some (eg Autover SensorGel or ICOR) & try it. (I am guessing when the screen was replaced this was never done)

 

[540iman]

Exactly same behavior to the "TEE" on my E39 after windshield replace with a used junk yard E39 mirror that already had a sensor installed on it. I did "initialize" with INPA, but that's it. Don't feel comfortable messing with values. Have had windshield a year now and hoped it would adapt on its own someday, but so far NG. Will wipe once or twice at start-up when set to intermittent and will sometimes wipe once when I moved frequency knob, but that is best I can get. Will be interested in replies.

 

[rdl]

I have a 2009 Pre Sept E61, the rain sensor has never worked. I get one wipe when the green light comes & one wipe when u adjust the sensitivity one notch.
When you un lach the RTL from the screen or just touch it (with the covers removed) it triggers one or more wipes but once latched in place no amount of rain starts it.
I bought the car 2nd hand but can see no evidence of a screen replacement. Tried the battery disconnected for 20 mins.
Any ideas ?

My only experience & knowlege with RLS is on my E39, so I'm reluctant to try diagnosing an E61 since I don't know if any changes were made for your newer model.

However, leaping into that void of knowledge:
1) check lower corners for markings. Every windshield has a logo and codes for part and factory. If no BMW logo, it has been replaced. Even if the BMW logo is present it could be a replacement windshield since replacement by insurance on recent model years often stipulates OEM parts. In either case there could be a prism problem as described in the linked post of my experience with a windshield from a BMW supplier with presumably the same quality.
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=800955
2) I've not seen any reports of an RLS failure other than co-incident with a windshield replacement, however I suppose it's possible. Try some diagnosis with INPA or equivalent.
3) since you do get some wipe cycles when disturbing the sensor, I'd suspect either the prism or sensor or sensor connector is faulty.

 

[540iman]

RDL, you seem to be closets to resolving this issue. It is really not disrupting the sensor that makes it work. It is just that if you turn car on with wipers in intermittent, you will get a swipe or two. If you rotate intermittent frequency knob from most frequent to least, that may trip a cycle, but It will just not keep working in intermittent. I just even wish that by disconnecting rain sensor I could get a "standard" 4 speed intermittent not related to rain. I just need something between slow constant, fast constant, or dip by hand to gel a manual wipe.

I am too dumb and at least know it that I don't trust myself changing my values. If someone did a U-tube video of exactly how to capture all my current values, I might be able to post relevant values. I need to check which model sensor came on used windshield and I have a spare without a prism that may work just. I believe it is OEM Replacing old sensor, installing newer sensor and old prism looks good. The sensor on used windshield appears to have an untampered used sensor and an undisturbed prism. pigtail plugs right in. I will get part number of existing and what I have as spare.

 

[rdl]

Exactly same behavior to the "TEE" on my E39 after windshield replace with a used junk yard E39 mirror that already had a sensor installed on it. I did "initialize" with INPA, but that's it.
...

I'd try swapping with your old sensor & if no luck, then replacing the prism. As I'm sure you know, you'll need to reinitialize after each trial. The tech docs on RLS imply that the sensor is able to adjust for any "normal" degree of windshield aging, which implies until it becomes so pitted that visibility becomes severely impaired.

 

[rdl]

RDL, you seem to be closets to resolving this issue. It is really not disrupting the sensor that makes it work. It is just that if you turn car on with wipers in intermittent, you will get a swipe or two. If you rotate intermittent frequency knob from most frequent to least, that may trip a cycle, but It will just not keep working in intermittent. I just even wish that by disconnecting rain sensor I could get a "standard" 4 speed intermittent not related to rain. I just need something between slow constant, fast constant, or dip by hand to gel a manual wipe.

I am too dumb and at least know it that I don't trust myself changing my values. If someone did a U-tube video of exactly how to capture all my current values, I might be able to post relevant values. I need to check which model sensor came on used windshield and I have a spare without a prism that may work just. I believe it is OEM Replacing old sensor, installing newer sensor and old prism looks good. The sensor on used windshield appears to have an untampered used sensor and an undisturbed prism. pigtail plugs right in. I will get part number of existing and what I have as spare.

Turning the ignition on and starting the car will not cycle the wipers when the stalk is in the rain sense position. Once the engine is running, moving the stalk from "off" to the rain sense position will initiate a single cycle. Moving the adjustment wheel in the stalk downward will not initiate a wiper cycle. Moving upward will. So your observations aren't consistent with my experience. And off hand I don't know what to make of the difference. I'll have to think about it. I'll post back if anything occurs to me.

You can change your wipers from rain sense to conventional intermittent. IIRC with 4 steps from 6 seconds to 30 seconds. But it would require re-coding the GM which controls the wipers (a properly functioning RLS requests wipe cycles from the GM via the K-bus, or maybe I-bus). You would need to do this with NCS Expert. If you wish to do that, I've posted the values to re-code in this or one of the related/links threads. Post back if they don't turn up & I'll hunt them up for you.

FWIW I was somewhat hesitant on the first re-code too. But I found the directions in the NCS for Dummies manual very detailed & explicit. See post 1 on this thread
http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s....com/forum/showthread.php?1553779-NCS-Dummy-Taking-the-expert-out-of-NCS-Expert
You don't need to read all 31 pages.

Meantime, checking part numbers is a good idea too.

 

[Alpejohn]

Hi,

After using my sensor now for a while i must say its just as bad as it was. I tried changing the values with NCS, but cant notice any difference.
The shop that changed my windscreen had a look at it to, and they could only reinitialice the sensor.

Weird thing is, after initializing, the sensor works kind of OK, but after using it a few days it goes back to the poor sensitivity.

Think i will try to change the values again, last time i changed number 1 and 3 if i remember correctly.. Number 2 had 2 values .. Think i will try to change that to.
I feel i got nothing to loose..

Next would be a visit to the stealer.. As they said they could calibrate it.. But that will cost alot, and im afraid i get the car back and they say "we initialized the sensor, it shoudl be fine now, 1000$ pls!"..

 

[shenecke]

I re-initialized mine after a windshield change with Carsoft. Works fine.

 

[davidjm]

I have a 2009 Pre Sept E61, the rain sensor has never worked. I get one wipe when the green light comes & one wipe when u adjust the sensitivity one notch.
When you un lach the RTL from the screen or just touch it (with the covers removed) it triggers one or more wipes but once latched in place no amount of rain starts it.
I bought the car 2nd hand but can see no evidence of a screen replacement. Tried the battery disconnected for 20 mins.
Any ideas ?

Thanks for the responses:
1) The screen marking say 'Guardian laminated' with no BMW in sight so suspect its been changed
2) My wiper stalk has no auto position - from the off postion I just press the button & the green light comes on with 1 wipe.. Press down for 1 wipe (leaves the green light on ). Press up once for slow and twice for fast (this turns off the green light)
3) I have keyless ignition - so no sure what postion one is anymore -
4) I read that the RTS is bonded the rear of the glass - but I can remove the whole sensor by freeing the 2 metal clips so there must be an air gap between it & the screen ? so where is bonding happening?
5) I found this instruction on how it works: (but not sure its my RLS)
http://www.micro-tronik.com/learnin...ing/technical-information/automotive/bmw-general-information/rain-light-sensor/
any idea how I carry out the initialisation - where are terminals 15 & R?

It appears that these rain sensors are attached to the screen with silicon seal. Mine has no such silicon in evidence & is held in place via 2 metal clips (I have the newer post 2010 circular drum type)
so my next step is buy some (eg Autover SensorGel or ICOR) & try it. (I am guessing when the screen was replaced this was never done)

Update 12/01/2016 - SOLVED
I sourced a new silicon seal from: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-E60-E61-2003-RAIN-SENSOR-GEL-PAD-/181340076672?hash=item2a38b5fa80
and the sensor now works fine. (well almost not always perfect at getting the correct speed for drizzle)
Incidentally disconnecting the unit (behind the mirror) puts the function into standard intermittent mode -re connecting puts into auto mode.
The root cause was not having the silicon seal - this must somehow impact the optics of the sensor - maybe a stable distance to the screen so system can calibrate reliably.

 

[pudl]

Out of curiosity, why do you wish to change from AIC to RLS?

Well, I went ahead and did it. I bought a windshield with the RLS prism. The RLS module plugged right in and started working. The RLS module was unused.

Here is the 'before' picture and an excerpt from the grid of changes over the model years:

 

[davidjm]

F11 (530 2012 Tourer)

Hello I am getting a reverse light failure error - any idea how I get to reverse light bulbs in the tail gate with removing the whole tool box assembly?

 

[rdl]

Hello I am getting a reverse light failure error - any idea how I get to reverse light bulbs in the tail gate with removing the whole tool box assembly?

I'm afraid your in the wrong forum. This is and E39 forum, 5 series from 1995 to 2003.

Try the F11 forum for your 2012. Or perhaps one of the moderators will notice and tow your post over there for you.

 

[kjartan]

Does anyone know how the original wiring for the rain sensor is? I see from the http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/474842 that I'm supposed to splice the cables near the GM connector. Where does the OEM splice happen?

 

[rdl]

Does anyone know how the original wiring for the rain sensor is? I see from the http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/474842 that I'm supposed to splice the cables near the GM connector. Where does the OEM splice happen?

I assume you're interested in RLS for your 2002. Or are you doing AIC?
Attached are RLS schematics and locators.