Dynamic Stability Control brakes automatically. If you don’t understand when then you may over use that feature to the detriment of particularly your rear brakes…Specifically, if you engage cruise control at more than 10 MPH above the set speed then the rear brakes will slow rather aggressively.

 

1. I rarely, if ever, ever use Cruise Control.

2) For Dynamic Stability Control, I only use infrequently during the winter, to give me better traction on slick road surfaces. Again, I don't use it that much, and certainly from March through November.

 

My wife's car also had the same issue, she would go through rear brake pads at 2x the rate of front brake pads. I have a very similar car and I go through 2x front brake pads vs rear (just the opposite).

I believe this all comes down to the way we drive. As someone mentioned, the DSC will use the brakes if it detects wheel spin before throttling back the engine. The first gen DSC from 3 decades ago only controls the throttle and it could be jerky at times. My wife "stabs" the throttle as soon as the light turns green and I am convinced the DSC was activated without her knowing and wearing out the brake pads. On the other hand, when the light turns green, I would take my foot off the brake, wait a split second, wait till the car starts to move and then step on the gas.

I am not sure how you drive and there could be other issues like sticky calipers. I assume the dealer already checked that. Do you know if all 4 rear brake pads are at 4mm? Could there be uneven wear between the brake pads?

 

I never saw a measurement for the front pads. Not even sure if they recorded that.

Maybe I don't fully understand Dynamic Stability Control (DSC). In looking at this:

as I mentioned above, I do activate Dynamic Traction Control infrequently during the winter months, usually when the roads in and around me are slick and/or covered with snow (I live near Seattle, and we don't get that much snow). I do turn it off right away when I no longer need it.

As it is, it seems like DSC happens "automatically", to get the car back on its intended path. I actually do not remember such situations. It does look like, though, one can turn off DSC, but not sure if and when to do that. I guess I'll have to look more closely and see if and when it is "self-activated".

Still, though, our daughter-in-law's 2021 X! (they are located in Germany, and the only difference in their X1 (besides being a little older (still a 2021), is that it is a hybrid,) are not having this issue with the pads, and they have more miles on their X1 that us.

 

Let me be more direct. It has a lot to do with the way you drive. Any jack rabbit starts? Your daughter-in-law does not drive like you do.

 

And I will be more direct. As I said above, we do not "beat up" our X1. No jack rabbit starts, no racing, no off road antics, etc. Just day-to-day normal driving, and just about all local. In fact, I drive the X1 the same way I drive our Camry. And the (ceramic) brakes, original equipment, on it lasted over 70,000 miles!

Also, as I have mentioned, we "share" our driving between the X1 and the Camry. So, neither vehicle gets used every day. More like every other day.

For just about all the other cars we have owned (including a 2001 525i), the brakes needed to be replaced at the typical 40,000 to 50,000 miles.

Finally, our daughter-in-law and I drive very similarly. I have witnessed it, including just this past September through October.

 

Thanks for confirming the way you drive.

I believe the explanation your dealer gave you does not make sense as you confirmed your daughter-in-law drives like you do and does not have the same level of pad wear.

Make sure your brake calipers are not sticking. Also your rear brakes have 4 brake pads, 2 on each side. If one of the guide slide pins are sticking, you will have uneven wear. That way I asked if all 4 pads are at 4mm. Maybe on 1 side, the inside pad is at 4mm and the outside is at 6mm (for example).

Another point you want to check is when they tell you 4mm, does it really mean 4mm. Some dealers would tell you the thickness above the level where the sensors will trigger. Typically the sensor will get triggered at a pad thickness of 3mm. So "4mm" is really 7mm (3mm+4mm). Not many dealers are that sneaky but worth checking.

 

Understand. I of course do not have, nor know, all those details. Wish I did!

Also, I just looked again at the service report, and the front pads measured 10 mm. So just seems like a "defect" that the rear pads wore down MUCH more than the front pads.

I will check about the 3mm + 4mm. Even if they measured at 7 mm, still significantly less than the front pads.

And one other thing: the X1 our son and daughter-in-law have (same year) has about 7,000 more miles than ours does. (From what I remember, their total mileage was 29,000 km, which converts to 18,020 miles. Definitely significantly more than 11,024 miles).

Any idea what "type" of brake pads BMW uses? Metallic? I suspect that is the case, and probably not the highest quality. Also, how do I make sure my brakes are not sticking? And is there any way I can measure the thickness myself without removing the tire?

 

BMW uses semi-metallic brake pads. OEM suppliers are ATE, Jurid, Textar. It is designed for street use. Meaning it gives a good brake feel even when the brakes are stone cold. As opposed to racing brake pads that need to be warmed up. Biggest complaint is high level of brake dust.

What you can do without removing the wheels is to inspect the 2 outer pads, check the thickness. More importantly if they are about the same thickness.

To do this properly, you need to at least jack up the car. Turn the wheels with the parking brake off and see if you detect any difference between the left and the right. You really should take off the wheels and measure the thickness of all 4 pads.

 

BMW uses semi-metallic brake pads. OEM suppliers are ATE, Jurid, Textar. It is designed for street use. Meaning it gives a good brake feel even when the brakes are stone cold. As opposed to racing brake pads that need to be warmed up. Biggest complaint is high level of brake dust.

What you can do without removing the wheels is to inspect the 2 outer pads, check the thickness. More importantly if they are about the same thickness.

To do this properly, you need to at least jack up the car. Turn the wheels with the parking brake off and see if you detect any difference between the left and the right. You really should take off the wheels and measure the thickness of all 4 pads.

Thanks for the information.

Unfortunately, the car came with Run Flat tires, so I do not have a jack or a lug wrench (I have ones for the Camry, but doubt I could use them).

I did send an EMail to my service advisor at the dealership where they did the maintenance/service, and I quoted most of what you said above (left off the last sentence that said "Not many dealers are that sneaky but worth checking."). Did not think that would have been good to include that. Definitely nothing wrong with it, and certainly honest. But the service advisor might take it the wrong way.

Besides asking him about the 4 mm measurement, I suggested that possibly I could bring the vehicle in again to have the pads re-measured. If that could be done, I'd ask for a measurement for each pad.

Regarding the pads, I suspect Ceramic pads are fine also, but from both experience and from what I have read, they would last longer than semi-metallic ones. Certainly was/is the case for our Camry.

Again, appreciate the information. Definitely been an education (and still more to learn)!

 

OK, 11,000KMS is early for brake pads however longevity is due to driving style and tires. DSC is always on unless you deactivate it. New the pads are 11mm and minimum is 3mm. At 3mm the brake pad replacement warning will come up on the vehicle info display.

The inner pad(s) will wear more than the outer pad so inspection with the wheel off is recommended.

The rear brakes are activated by the DSC unit upon heavy acceleration (DTC dynamic traction) and spirited cornering (CBC corner brake control). This happens quickly and you wont know until slip reaches a certain threshold and then the light will illuminate/flash indicating excessive slip/traction.

Higher than normal rear brake wear is a known wear item on BMW due to changes in the later model chassis management. Ceramic pads may give more life but they are always at a compromise such has reduced braking performance and accelerated wear/grooving of the brake discs.

Mark.

 

Thanks, Mark.

As I have stated, the X1 gets as much driving time/use as our 2013 Toyota Camry. And again, I drive both cars the same way.

And yes, I can see that DSC is always on (unless deactivated by turning on DTC, which as I have mentioned I use (somewhat infrequently) in the winter months up here near Seattle). As far as heavy acceleration and spirited cornering, I don't do much of that. Again, I drive the X1 like an ordinary sedan (except for infrequently using DTC in the winter).

For our 2013 Camry, they came equipped with Ceramic pads, and even after 70,000 miles of use, no issues with reduced braking performance and accelerated wear/grooving of the brake disks. Maybe Toyota uses better quality parts than BMW does. Just saying, based on my experience. (BTW, when I replaced the brakes on the Camry, had them use Ceramic pads again. No issues, so far).

Finally, how many pads are there on each wheel on the front? Is it the "normal" 2 pads (one on each side of the wheel), or 4 like the rear? And when it's 4 on the rear, is it one on top of the other, on each side?

 

Each wheel has 2 brake pads. 8 total in the car.

The more I think about this, this rate of brake wear is not normal. You should definitely check all 4 brake pads in the rear. Write down all their thickness. There is a good chance there is uneven wear, brake stick, parking brake not releasing etc...

It seems like you are not a car guy. Probably will not be able to get the brake pad thickness without removing the rear wheels. Go to a gas station and ask them to do this for you.

 

Each wheel has 2 brake pads. 8 total in the car.

Yes, that is normal. But you stated above that "Also your rear brakes have 4 brake pads, 2 on each side.". Is that per wheel/tire, or total for both wheels/tires? It seems it should be the "normal" layout, ie, each tire/wheel has 2 pads. (You also said "So "4mm" is really 7mm (3mm+4mm)". Did you mean the sum of the thickness of each pad?).

To keep it simple, with 8 brake pads TOTAL for a vehicle (2 on each wheel/tire), when the pads are brand new, each one is 10 mm to 12 mm thick. It looks like the front pads, at 10 mm, are fine. But if the rear are truly 4 mm, then there is an issue. (I assume the figures the service technician stated are for a single pad, not the sum of 2 of them. That is not clearly defined on the paperwork). That is what I am trying to find out, ie, why? And if the pads BMW installs on the rear are less thick than on the front (according to my service advisor), I am trying to find out why.

The more I think about this, this rate of brake wear is not normal. You should definitely check all 4 brake pads in the rear. Write down all their thickness. There is a good chance there is uneven wear, brake stick, parking brake not releasing etc...

I rarely use the parking brake. Any way I can tell if the brakes are sticking?

It seems like you are not a car guy. Probably will not be able to get the brake pad thickness without removing the rear wheels. Go to a gas station and ask them to do this for you.

I do know about checking fluids, tire pressure, fuse locations, tire wear and tear, etc. In my younger days (and when vehicles were easier to work on), I would do a lot more. If I had the right kind of scissors jack, and a lug wrench, I would remove each tire by myself (know how to do that).

If I had known about this 2 weeks ago, I could have had Discount Tire do it for me. When I had the service done, they found 2 small "bumps" on the right front tire. Given the car has Run Flat Tires, I had to get 2 brand new ones (need to be purchased/replaced in matching pairs, and in fact, need to be the same brand (Pirelli in my case)). Had that done at Discount Tire.

 

Pad thickness is usually for 1 pad. If it is really 4mm, there is an issue with the braking system.

Again, the only way to figure this out is to remove the wheels and take a look at the pad thickness.

 

Pad thickness is usually for 1 pad. If it is really 4mm, there is an issue with the braking system.

That is what I would suspect.

Again, the only way to figure this out is to remove the wheels and take a look at the pad thickness.

Yes, that should be one way to find out. But I am still trying to get to the bottom of what my service advisor told me, that for X1s and X2s, the thickness of the rear pads is less than the ones on the front. I need to find out 1) why that is the case, 2) what the actual difference is, and 3) can new pads be of greater thickness, ie, like the ones on the front.

If say the original thickness of the rear pads was 8 mm, then a decrease to 4 mm is 50% wear already. But if it was supposed to be 10 to 13 mm, then the rear pads have worn down alot in two years (and after only 11,024 miles).

 

Overall thickness difference is 2.3mm. The thickness in the document includes the backing plate.

 

Thanks. Very helpful. I'm going to send it to my service advisor. I have just been in contact with him (via EMail), and most likely will set up an appointment to have each pad re-measured. Still, though, have yet to hear from BMW North America.

I did see 2 entries for Ceramic pads, so that answers one of my questions.

With a difference of 2.3 mm, if the original pad thickness on the rear was 7.7 mm (10 mm "normal" thickness - 2.3 mm "difference"), a current thickness of 4 mm is almost 50% wear. That seems like alot. If the original pad thickness on the rear was 10.7 mm (13 mm "normal" thickness - 2.3 mm "difference"), a current thickness of 4 mm is DEFINITELY a serious issue!

So much detective work! Thanks agin for all your help.

 

If the original is 7.3mm and current reading is 4mm, it is almost 80% wear. The wear limit is 3mm.

 

Agreed. Definitely an issue, and especially in light of the measurement for the front pads is 10 mm.

 

I believe you still have a problem with the braking system. However, the X1 hybrid has regenerative braking to recoup the energy and charge the battery so it will wear have less brake wear.

 

Don't know much about the hybrid differences. But yeah, some kind of issue with the braking system on our X1. Wonder if it's a factory defect? Don't know if the shop will be honest enough to tell me that. The "mystery" will definitely get deeper if the measurements for all 4 pads per "area" are the same, ie, for the front, all 4 pads measure at 10 mm each, and for the back, all 4 of them measure at 4 mm each. That would of course mean there is no uneven ear and tear on each "area".

Still need to know why BMW does that, and if and when I need the rear pads replaced, can the new pads (ceramic) be "normal" thickness, ie, 10 to 13 mm?

 

You cannot put thicker brake pads in, the thickness is limited by the dimensions of the caliper.

I hope you are aware you are relying on the fox that is guarding the henhouse.

 

That actually went through my mind. Based on that document you sent me, the thickness of the rear pads is 16.2 mm. But subtracting the thickness of the backing plate, 1.6 mm, arrive at 14.6 mm. From what I understand, though, typical thickness ("bare", ie, the pads themselves) for brand new ones are 10 to 13 mm). So, it seems I would need to use ones that are a maximum of 10 mm. Correct?

Also, if and when I have the rear ones replaced (assuming the front ones do not get replaced at that time), I assume it's OK to use ones made of Ceramic (would me "mixing" with the semi-metallic ones on the front). I'm of course assuming the OEM ones are semi-metallic (another thing to find out when I have them re-measured).

And for that calculation (actually asked this above), 14.6 mm seems high. Is there anything else included in the thickness dimensions on that document that are actually not of the pads themselves (like the backing plate)?

Regarding the dimensions of the calipers, it looks like that's another difference to wonder about. What would be interesting is to see if either other BMW models, or other makes of cars, have this same difference, and if so, any issues with the ear pads like I am having?

Finally, are you sure it's not the monster guarding the castle?

 

I don't know the thickness of the backing plate exactly, it is definitely more than 1.6mm. Where did you get the 1.6mm?

 

I got the 1/16" (converts to 1.6 mm) via ga oogle search of "Thickness of a backing plate on brakes", with these results:

Google Search

But from one of the "hits" of that google search:

Brake Pad Backing Plate Thickness - AudiWorld Forums

Audi A3 / S3 / RS 3 - Brake Pad Backing Plate Thickness - Can someone provide the thickness of the backing plate (front & back if different) for the MY 2015 S3 with the optional larger rotors (17 ) /red calipers? I need this info to determine the thickness of the remaining friction material. I...

www.audiworld.com

Says the backing plate thickness is 5 mm. Yeah, that sounds better. If it is, then the thickness of the rear pads would have been 16.2 mm - 5 mm = 11.2 mm. Front would be 18.5 mm - 5 mm = 13.5 mm. With that, the front pads have worn down from 13.5 mm to 10 mm, and the rear pads from 11.2 mm to 4 mm! Hence, front pads worn down 3.5 mm (seems ok), and rear pads worn down 7.2 mm. Definitely WAY too much! Still wonder why.

 

I've actually been "documenting" my findings with the Service Advisor at the dealership whom I dealt with. Not sure if it will do much good, but wanted to do it anyway. As you correctly pointed out smokeyy, the most telling statistic is how much the rear pads have worn down in 2 years, and only 11,000 miles: 7.2 mm versus 3.5 mm for the front. As I stated to the service advisor, those facts would lead a reasonable person to the following conclusions: either there is a defect in the braking system, or BMW did not use the "best quality" of pads on the rear, or a combination of both.

I also made it the point that I do not "bash" our X1 with my driving habits: "No jack rabbit starts, no racing, no off road activities, no heavy acceleration, no "spirited cornering", minimal use of Dynamic Traction Control in the winter months only (and I de-activate it right away when I no longer need it), etc., etc." (direct quote from that correspondence).

And I pointed out the situation with my son's and daughter-in-law's 2021 X1, that with only 18,641 miles (still significantly more than our 11,300 miles), they are not having this issue.

Again, I have yet to hear from BMW of North America. Do I have any kind of recourse (legal or other) to get this corrected, and to my satisfaction? I of course realize that under the standard warranties provided by BMW, brake pads are not covered. But if either the braking system is defective, or the original pads were of questionable quality (yes, could be difficult to prove), one would think the pads would be replaced for free.

One other question comes to mind: why haven't the front pads worn down very much?

As an update: just spoke with our daughter-in-law, and when they bought their X1 in for service (only 1 time so far; seems like they have "missed" one), the thickness readings of the front pads was 11 mm, and the back was 9. I cannot find the paperwork for our first service done in October 2022, but nothing was said at that time about the brakes/brake pads (or anything else). Going to ask the service advisor to look that up.

 

OK, I am getting close to having an appointment to bring the X1 to the same dealership which has done the 2 service/maintenance/inspections of it. I am also still waiting to hear from BMW North America. It is now business day 4 since I initially contacted them on Friday, November 17th. They promise a return call within 1 to 5 business days. I am hoping to get some assistance from them.

In the meantime, would appreciate any assistance with the following:

1. Why are the front pads so much thicker than the ones on the back, at this point? (2 years, normal driving, only 11,024 miles).
2. When I bring the vehicle in, I will require them to 1) do a complete, in-depth inspection of the braking system, and 2) measure EACH of the 8 pads on the vehicle. Any thing else I should have them do.
3. Do I have any kind of "legal" (or other) recourse regarding the replacement of the rear pads?
4. When the rear pads need to be replaced, are ones made of ceramic "better" than ones that are semi-metallic? By "better" I mean longer lasting. Again, this is based on my experience with our 2013 Toyota Camry, where the original ceramic pads on it lasted over 70,000 mile.

One other thing I forgot to mention (and which can also be a good indicator of brake issues) is that 2 of the original Pirelli Run Flat tires that came with our X1 are fine, with 5 mm in tread depth. I did need to have the other 2 recently replaced (had 6 mm of tread depth), but that was because one of them (on the right front) had 2 small "bubbles" on it (again, same Pirelli Run Flats, and of course replaced them with the same type/brand, etc.).

 

I'm curious what your update is as I also have 21 BMW X1 that just required rear brakes after the oil change telling me brakes were fine! Ugh. 2 weeks afterwards I get a notice in the car that they need replaced. I was shocked and apalled because I too rarely drive my car as I have a remote job...and I am very cautious with the car and brakes.