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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I bought a miata as a daily driver to keep the miles down on the bimmer. after two weeks of driving the miata, I hop into my 330 and it feals like your grandfather's oldsmobile. then again, the miata is a base model with no a/c or power steering. - just a lonely old alternator belt. :D the new konisports and sway bars really tightened it up nicely. even with the crappy tiger paw tires on the car, I thin kI can get through my favorite back road (calaveras road) more quickly in the miata than with the bimmer. both cars are really fun.
 

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I totally understand where you are coming from. Lately since I got the Convertible Eclipse I've been driving it everyday and rarely use the bimmer.

When I get back into the BMW, first of all I am sitting higher up like in a sedan, it feels big, it's heavy, it's very isolated and solid as a rock.

It's a HUGE difference . . .

I use to feel that my bmw was a sports car now I have come to the realization that it's a sporty luxurious Coupe.

Meanwhile if I had to have only one, the BMW would be the choice hands-down :thumb:
 

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The BMW OE sport suspension is way too soft... throw in a set of coil overs and sways for that bolted down feel.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
JPinTO said:
The BMW OE sport suspension is way too soft... throw in a set of coil overs and sways for that bolted down feel.
don't forget.... I have the complete Dinan stage-II (konisports, springs and sway bars) plus the retrofit steering and of course the black stitch M3 steering wheel.
 

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31st330i said:
I thin kI can get through my favorite back road (calaveras road) more quickly in the miata than with the bimmer. both cars are really fun.
For some reason, I doubt that. Even if the Miata feels better, I'll bet your Dinan 330 IS faster :p Especially when the road is straight.
 
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It's kind of funny to me how more and more of the E46 guys are starting to realize that these cars truly did lose something along the way. They are EXCELLENT sporty luxury cars, but they are no longer the practical SPORTS cars they used to be. Sure, their limits are high and they are extremely capable in addition to being very comfortable (which is a huge engineering feat in and of itself), but the feel just isn't there. In a vacuum (and against their immediate competition), they feel great. But compare them to anything that truly has feel and the E46 suddenly feels like a Buick.
 

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TD said:
It's kind of funny to me how more and more of the E46 guys are starting to realize that these cars truly did lose something along the way. They are EXCELLENT sporty luxury cars, but they are no longer the practical SPORTS cars they used to be. Sure, their limits are high and they are extremely capable in addition to being very comfortable (which is a huge engineering feat in and of itself), but the feel just isn't there. In a vacuum (and against their immediate competition), they feel great. But compare them to anything that truly has feel and the E46 suddenly feels like a Buick.
Your car will feel isolated compared to a stripped down Miata, which is probably the purest driver's car sold in the US in the last 15 years....the only BMW that I can think of that would be a similar drive would be a 1.9L Z3...an E30 M3 is isloated compared to an older, stipped down Miata :dunno:
 
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nate328Ci said:


Your car will feel isolated compared to a stripped down Miata, which is probably the purest driver's car sold in the US in the last 15 years....the only BMW that I can think of that would be a similar drive would be a 1.9L Z3...
Nate, I KNOW THIS. And it feels isolated compared to an E30 (ANY E30). But it feels like a f**king go kart compared to my former 330i SP. Everything is relative. Hence I said that the E46 feels great in a vacuum. As in, without anything with more feel to compare it to, it feels like it has a lot of feel. Feel, feel, feel ,feel.... (it just felt like I had used that word a lot just now, so I had to shake it off... ;) ).

I thought I selected my words in such a way that, had you read my post, you wouldn't argue with it.
 

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TD said:

I thought I selected my words in such a way that, had you read my post, you wouldn't argue with it.
I wasn't really argueing, you were pretty much right. Comparing a 330 (or even, dare I say, an E30 M3) to a Miata in feel, the Miata will obviously blow it out of the water. Saying this "It's kind of funny to me how more and more of the E46 guys are starting to realize that these cars truly did lose something along the way" is sort of a mischaraterization, we weren't talking about E30s or E36s, but rather Miatas. You can't loose something along the way when there is no connection between a 330 and a Miata.

As I said before to Paul, I would bet that his 330 is faster than the Miata. Emisson was faster in the 330 than his 911 Turbo :dunno:
 
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nate328Ci said:


I wasn't really argueing, you were pretty much right. Comparing a 330 (or even, dare I say, an E30 M3) to a Miata in feel, the Miata will obviously blow it out of the water. Saying this "It's kind of funny to me how more and more of the E46 guys are starting to realize that these cars truly did lose something along the way" is sort of a mischaraterization, we weren't talking about E30s or E36s, but rather Miatas. You can't loose something along the way when there is no connection between a 330 and a Miata.

As I said before to Paul, I would bet that his 330 is faster than the Miata. Emisson was faster in the 330 than his 911 Turbo :dunno:
And maybe this is where our disagreement truly is...

I value driving enjoyment over speed capability. As in, I don't really care which car is faster (on a track, on the street, wherever), I care which car is more fun.

And since I need a 4-door sedan, I wanted the one that is most fun. It's hard to argue that the E36 M3 sedan is the most FUN 4-door built. (And don't bring up the M5 - too big and too heavy to compete on the fun scale.)

If I didn't need the space and doors, I'd be driving something light and nimble but not necessarily FAST.

This is why E46 M3s and E39 M5s don't appeal to me that strongly (sure they're nice, but...). To reiterate, I value fun over fast. Fast is a bonus.
 

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TD said:


And maybe this is where our disagreement truly is...

I value driving enjoyment over speed capability. As in, I don't really care which car is faster (on a track, on the street, wherever), I care which car is more fun.

And since I need a 4-door sedan, I wanted the one that is most fun. It's hard to argue that the E36 M3 sedan is the most FUN 4-door built. (And don't bring up the M5 - too big and too heavy to compete on the fun scale.)

If I didn't need the space and doors, I'd be driving something light and nimble but not necessarily FAST.

This is why E46 M3s and E39 M5s don't appeal to me that strongly (sure they're nice, but...). To reiterate, I value fun over fast. Fast is a bonus.
I understand, but Paul brought up the speed issue. I like fun too. I think my car is fun :dunno: Driving 10/10ths is a lot of fun, tons of feedback :D Maybe my senses are dulled from soon to be (in less than 2 months) 3 years with an E46 :dunno:

No M5 for you?
 
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nate328Ci said:


I understand, but Paul brought up the speed issue. I like fun too. I think my car is fun :dunno: Driving 10/10ths is a lot of fun, tons of feedback :D Maybe my senses are dulled from soon to be (in less than 2 months) 3 years with an E46 :dunno:

No M5 for you?
While I didn't state it explicitly, I also require my daily-driver 4-door to be new enough that I can fully and completely trust it. I'd absolutely love an E28 M5, but I've already said that. As a daily driver, though, I prefer my E36. And the E28 is about the size of an E46.
 

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TD said:


While I didn't state it explicitly, I also require my daily-driver 4-door to be new enough that I can fully and completely trust it. I'd absolutely love an E28 M5, but I've already said that. As a daily driver, though, I prefer my E36. And the E28 is about the size of an E46.
It is bigger and heavier

http://www.cyberflunk.com/m5/specs.html

I have extenive E28 experience, it doesn't come CLOSE to the capabilities of an E46. High drag too. It is certanly much wider
 

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TD said:
It's kind of funny to me how more and more of the E46 guys are starting to realize that these cars truly did lose something along the way. They are EXCELLENT sporty luxury cars, but they are no longer the practical SPORTS cars they used to be.
Sorry guys but it's my turn to jump in . . .

When you say it lost something I cannot agree. The BMW never had that feeling in the 3er . . . I remember back in the day when I had a RX-7 and my mother had a 87 325is and I would jump into that Coupe. It felt like a sedan in comparison to a sports car.

Maybe the E30 M3 had that feeling though I never drove one but even if it did, that was low productrion car . . .
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
ESS said:
Drive a new Mini and the road feel will disappear in the Miata.
not if it has power steering, which it likely does.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Re: Re: sheesh... bought a Miata and then the road feal in my 330 disappeared.

nate328Ci said:


For some reason, I doubt that. Even if the Miata feels better, I'll bet your Dinan 330 IS faster :p Especially when the road is straight.
the road is pure tight twisties. HP won't help that much. it's like racing at sears point. when I raced motorcycles there, it was known as "a rider's track, not a HP track." moderatly good riders on 250 ninjas could easily spank most of us who rode in the 600 class.

smaller vehicles are easier to slow down going into a corner. plus since they are lesser powered, you can stay on the throttle more of the time.

anyway, I'll have to time myself in both cars. the miata still has crappy tires, mind you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
nate328Ci said:
the only BMW that I can think of that would be a similar drive would be a 1.9L Z3
I've driven a 2.5 z3 but never a 1.9 but I still wouldn't say that. not similar at all. in fact, the miata likely has a much better power to weight ration (I have not confirmed this but it is a logical guess).

how about a 2002 (which is technically in the same family, right?) or an E21?
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
nate328Ci said:
As I said before to Paul, I would bet that his 330 is faster than the Miata. Emisson was faster in the 330 than his 911 Turbo :dunno:
well, that depends....

highway - 330, no question
higher speed curves/turns - 330
tight twisties as found on calaveras road - miata is gonna put a lot of other cars to shame

so for what someone would spend getting all of the Dinan mods installed by Dinan ($5K+), here's what I got:
-1993 base miata - clean with 60K miles
-sway bars from a reputable miata vendor @$185 for the set
-konisport shocks @~$450 form the tire rack
-thermal research stainless cat back (dual resonated - sounds just a tad louder than stock yet straight through) @$379 delivered
-racing beat high flow intake (been doing mazda mods longer than Dinan has been around and has closer ties to mazda than Dinan to BMW) @$150
-used RX-7 air flow meter (the biggest restrictor in the intake tract) @$26 on ebay
-shave head .018" (yet to be done)
-port match intake manifold and head (will do this when head is shaved)
 
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