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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I signed my ED lease today, will pick up Aug 7.

There are a couple of things I am not totally happy with:
1-Dealer charged me $300 MACO and $175 Training, I tought there was no MACO on ED, can anyone confirm?

2-Bank Fee for BMW FS charge of $825? Is that what they pay?

3-MF add 0.00035 for ED, I tought it was 0.00030, dealer assured me it went up , BS?

4-They stuck me with a$600 Dealer Service fee, this is for sure a rip off, I have had the same dealer delete this in the past, but not today.

5-What happens if in Aug 1 the MF goes down? No adjustemnt possible at all? Say it goes domw from 0.00250 to 0.00150, any recourse available?

Besides these 4 items, everything else was good, I paid $1000 over ED Invoice
208 550i sport pack, sport auto, sirius, nav, logic 7, comfort access, usb/ipod,
US MSRP $69,470 Selling Price $ 61.585
MF 0.00230
30 months, 12k miles/year
67% residual
$2000 cap reduction plus inception (1st month-tag-etc)
Monthly Payment $708 plus tax

I did not want to make a big deal for the 4 items listed, but I feel they were not sincere, what do you think?
 

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I signed my ED lease today, will pick up Aug 7.

There are a couple of things I am not totally happy with:
1-Dealer charged me $300 MACO and $175 Training, I tought there was no MACO on ED, can anyone confirm?

BS Fees- You got BUMPED! So really, you paid $1,475 over ED wholesale plus $600 admin fee, so you really paid $2,075 over ED wholesale. Not the best deal, but for an ED newb, better than paying ED MSRP.

2-Bank Fee for BMW FS charge of $825? Is that what they pay?

You paid max $200 profit on acq fee. Coulda shoulda woulda on that.

3-MF add 0.00035 for ED, I tought it was 0.00030, dealer assured me it went up , BS?

No, it's .00030 ED rate adder.

4-They stuck me with a$600 Dealer Service fee, this is for sure a rip off, I have had the same dealer delete this in the past, but not today.

You got BUMPED again. Okay, so maybe doc fees aren't regulated there, but $600 is a bit excessive. Sounds more like the Dealer Retirement Fee, if you asked me.

5-What happens if in Aug 1 the MF goes down? No adjustemnt possible at all? Say it goes domw from 0.00250 to 0.00150, any recourse available?

Depends. It's ultimately at that center's discretion.

Besides these 4 items, everything else was good, I paid $1000 over ED Invoice
208 550i sport pack, sport auto, sirius, nav, logic 7, comfort access, usb/ipod,
US MSRP $69,470 Selling Price $ 61.585
MF 0.00230 :confused:Buy rate is supposed to be .00250.
30 months, 12k miles/year
67% residual
$2000 cap reduction plus inception (1st month-tag-etc)Why put cap reduction? Why not MSD's?
Monthly Payment $708 plus tax

I did not want to make a big deal for the 4 items listed, but I feel they were not sincere, what do you think?
My answers are in bold. Next time, when your ED lease is up, go with a board sponsor. We'll give you alot more love than this center will. That's for sure.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
My answers are in bold. Next time, when your ED lease is up, go with a board sponsor. We'll give you alot more love than this center will. That's for sure.
I have been buying cars from this dealer for 20 years, I have 3 BMW's, I refer a lot of customers to them, I have a group of friends and work buddies that buy from them, at least 4 cars a year.

But everytime I go buy a car I have to go trough the same process. So this time I did not want to fight, I was signing my papers at 10pm, they got me for $1075 more than agreed on the price, $200 on the bank fee, and 0.00005 on the MF.
 

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Sounds like you have been treating this dealer very well, the least they could have done was to be honest with you and tell you that they would charge you 2,xxx over ED invoice and not BS you with those "fees". No reason for you to stick with him, unless that kind of thing does not bother you

I had a similar experience with a dealer I have personally bought 4 cars from in the last 3 years and got 5 cars from him for friends in less than 2 years. Today, while doing a deal on another ED, he decided to increase the ED invoice + X amount that I have always had with him because he thought he had me on the last day of the OLP being available. The additional X amount was not that big a deal, but the principle was.

I dropped the deal and sent a PM to Adrian. He responded right back and I am hoping that my future business will be with him. Something to be said about a long time board sponsor and a straight-up guy.

I have been buying cars from this dealer for 20 years, I have 3 BMW's, I refer a lot of customers to them, I have a group of friends and work buddies that buy from them, at least 4 cars a year.

But everytime I go buy a car I have to go trough the same process. So this time I did not want to fight, I was signing my papers at 10pm, they got me for $1075 more than agreed on the price, $200 on the bank fee, and 0.00005 on the MF.
 

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I have been buying cars from this dealer for 20 years, I have 3 BMW's, I refer a lot of customers to them, I have a group of friends and work buddies that buy from them, at least 4 cars a year.

But everytime I go buy a car I have to go trough the same process. So this time I did not want to fight, I was signing my papers at 10pm, they got me for $1075 more than agreed on the price, $200 on the bank fee, and 0.00005 on the MF.
I feel for ya, bro. It's done now, so just chalk it up as a lesson learned.

I mean, it's not like you totally got ripped off or nothing, but you really shouldn't have to have paid MACO or training on an ED. It would've been one thing to ask for $1,475 profit, but to say there's MACO and training is just not right, IMO.

It's actually normal to pay $825 for most retail clients and retail of .00040 max rate adder for the lease factor. Most walk-in clients that aren't savvy about leasing or know the finite details of leasing pay full mark up, but I would've thought after learning how many referrals you've sent these guys, that they woulda cut you a little break, ya know.

Oh well. Still not a horrible deal and you're doing ED, so it's a heckava deal compared to US delivery.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I feel for ya, bro. It's done now, so just chalk it up as a lesson learned.

I mean, it's not like you totally got ripped off or nothing, but you really shouldn't have to have paid MACO or training on an ED. It would've been one thing to ask for $1,475 profit, but to say there's MACO and training is just not right, IMO.

It's actually normal to pay $825 for most retail clients and retail of .00040 max rate adder for the lease factor. Most walkin clients that aren't savvy or did their homework would pay full mark up, but Iwuold've thought after learning how many referrals you've sent these guys, that they woulda cut you a little break, ya know.

Oh well. Still not a horrible deal and you're doing ED, so it's a heckava deal compared to US delivery.
I have asked the manager to adjust the lease agreement, or to tell me if my personal and referral business is not what they care for. $1000 more or $1000 less will not make richer nor poorer, is the principle. Depending on his answer, I may be moving my business elsewhere. My group has a 3 series convertible and an X5 to be purchased between Aug and Sep. I personally can buy from an out of state dealer with no problem, but not everyone is willing to do so. So it may be back to square one and fnd a new dealer locally.
 

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I have asked the manager to adjust the lease agreement, or to tell me if my personal and referral business is not what they care for. $1000 more or $1000 less will not make richer nor poorer, is the principle. Depending on his answer, I may be moving my business elsewhere. My group has a 3 series convertible and an X5 to be purchased between Aug and Sep. I personally can buy from an out of state dealer with no problem, but not everyone is willing to do so. So it may be back to square one and fnd a new dealer locally.
If you signed today, it's 100% likely that they've already funded the contract with BMW FS. There's probably no going back now. Just grin and bear it. :( Sorry, man. Their response will likely be "we hooked you up, what're you talking about?", but it's okay, you know better now and you'll do better next time.:thumbup:

Like I said before, chalk it up and move on. You signed and the ink's dry now. Principle was out the window when they charged MACO and training on an ED from the jump. :thumbdwn:
 

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Youll know for next time to get all details (price, MF, every single fee) worked out ahead of time.

All over xxxx over ED invoice stories are meaningless until all the fees are taken into consideration.

Like Adrian said in reality you paid 2100 over ED invoice not 1000.

Either way...have a great trip and enjoy the new car.
 

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I have asked the manager to adjust the lease agreement, or to tell me if my personal and referral business is not what they care for. $1000 more or $1000 less will not make richer nor poorer, is the principle. Depending on his answer, I may be moving my business elsewhere. My group has a 3 series convertible and an X5 to be purchased between Aug and Sep. I personally can buy from an out of state dealer with no problem, but not everyone is willing to do so. So it may be back to square one and fnd a new dealer locally.
I think you've got a chance to get a little money back.. Especially if the dealer itemized charges for MACO and training. They would have to flat out lie to you, to say those are legitimate charges.. And, while the lease paperwork with BMWFS probably can't be changed, the dealership could certainly cut you a check for those two items, if they've overcharged you.

I'm not sure about the money factor, though..

Adrian: What is the lease loyalty discount? If he is a current customer, isn't the rate he qualifies for lower than .0025? It's possible they gave him the maximum bump in money factor, as well.

It could have been cheaper, I suppose.... but, on the positive side, your selling price is very low, and your payment is correspondingly good.
 

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If you signed today, it's 100% likely that they've already funded the contract with BMW FS. There's probably no going back now. Just grin and bear it. :( Sorry, man. Their response will likely be "we hooked you up, what're you talking about?", but it's okay, you know better now and you'll do better next time.:thumbup:

Like I said before, chalk it up and move on. You signed and the ink's dry now. Principle was out the window when they charged MACO and training on an ED from the jump. :thumbdwn:
Nonsense. There's always "going back", especially since you have not taken delivery.

Here's what you could do:

Call your dealer, Sales Manager preferably, and tell him/her you want to cancel the deal if they will not adjust (a) Bank Fee to 625 (b) are you a lease loyalty customer? Your money factor is too low for 'standard' ED rate of .00280 and too high, unless marked up for a loyalty rate .00210 (c) waive all the bogus dealer fees including MACO and Training - none of these are applicable on ED lease. If the dealer refuses to adjust the lease, cancel it by sending them a certified letter, copy to BMW Financial Services. You have not taken delivery yet, so there's no enforceable contract until such delivery takes place. BMW FS will side with the customer every time - you'll have zero trouble. :thumbup:

This advise, as well as others posted above should save you over a $1500. If you follow this advise and save the dollars, take a small portion of the savings and join BMWCCA (if you haven't already) and donate to Bimmerfest for allowing all of us to come together and share useful info. Cheers, mate!

As a side note: Please post the name of this dealer, so that others are warned to pay attention when dealing with them: $600 Dealer Service Fee? Maco and Training Fee on ED lease?? On second thought, training fee could actually benefit this dealer. As long as it's in the area of Customer Satisfaction and not Customer Deception.
 

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I have been buying cars from this dealer for 20 years, I have 3 BMW's, I refer a lot of customers to them, I have a group of friends and work buddies that buy from them, at least 4 cars a year.

But everytime I go buy a car I have to go trough the same process. So this time I did not want to fight, I was signing my papers at 10pm, they got me for $1075 more than agreed on the price, $200 on the bank fee, and 0.00005 on the MF.
What a sec.. Something does not sound right here..

You have been buying cars from the same dealership for 20 years and you continue to allow them to screw you? :dunno: Sorry, but it sounds like you have money to throw away and they have been allowed to take advantage of that for 20 years.

If it's Braman BMW in Miami, I do not doubt it... I've heard too many horror stories about that stealer-ship...
 

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I forgot to add.. Be sure you hammer both the salesperson and the dealership and send your complaints directly to BMWNA or to BMW while you are in Germany... You were not supposed to be charged certain items for ED delivery and you were...

I think BMW contacts you for a rating... From what I understand, if a salesperson does not receive a "5" on their rating, the salesperson, and more importantly, the dealership, suffers repercussions.

I have not been contacted by BMW about my X3 lease, but plan to praise heavily the dealership and the salesperson.. If anyone needs a local South Florida salesperson referral, please let me know.. I had an outstanding experience with both the dealership and the salesperson during my X3 lease.

Oh, and stay away from Vista BMW in Pompano.. :mad:
 

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Nonsense. There's always "going back", especially since you have not taken delivery.
Not with ED.

The car is yours when you sign, even though it's rotting in a lot in München.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Nonsense. There's always "going back", especially since you have not taken delivery.

Here's what you could do:

Call your dealer, Sales Manager preferably, and tell him/her you want to cancel the deal if they will not adjust (a) Bank Fee to 625 (b) are you a lease loyalty customer? Your money factor is too low for 'standard' ED rate of .00280 and too high, unless marked up for a loyalty rate .00210 (c) waive all the bogus dealer fees including MACO and Training - none of these are applicable on ED lease. If the dealer refuses to adjust the lease, cancel it by sending them a certified letter, copy to BMW Financial Services. You have not taken delivery yet, so there's no enforceable contract until such delivery takes place. BMW FS will side with the customer every time - you'll have zero trouble. :thumbup:

This advise, as well as others posted above should save you over a $1500. If you follow this advise and save the dollars, take a small portion of the savings and join BMWCCA (if you haven't already) and donate to Bimmerfest for allowing all of us to come together and share useful info. Cheers, mate!

As a side note: Please post the name of this dealer, so that others are warned to pay attention when dealing with them: $600 Dealer Service Fee? Maco and Training Fee on ED lease?? On second thought, training fee could actually benefit this dealer. As long as it's in the area of Customer Satisfaction and not Customer Deception.
I sent an e-mail to the sales manager requesting the agreement to be adjusted, the SA responded saying that all 4 items have been adjusted and they have my new contract ready for signature. Now, if I only knew if the August money factor changed...or remained the same, I could get that adjusted as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I think you've got a chance to get a little money back.. Especially if the dealer itemized charges for MACO and training. They would have to flat out lie to you, to say those are legitimate charges.. And, while the lease paperwork with BMWFS probably can't be changed, the dealership could certainly cut you a check for those two items, if they've overcharged you.

I'm not sure about the money factor, though..

Adrian: What is the lease loyalty discount? If he is a current customer, isn't the rate he qualifies for lower than .0025? It's possible they gave him the maximum bump in money factor, as well.

It could have been cheaper, I suppose.... but, on the positive side, your selling price is very low, and your payment is correspondingly good.
MF is correct, I offer them $1000 over ED invoice and 0.00015 mark up on the base MF, I am fair. The calculation for the MF is:

Base Rate 0.00250
Deduct 0.00070 for loyalty program
Add 0.00030 for ED and 0.00015 for profit.
So I expected 0.00225
 

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MF is correct, I offer them $1000 over ED invoice and 0.00015 mark up on the base MF, I am fair. The calculation for the MF is:

Base Rate 0.00250
Deduct 0.00070 for loyalty program
Add 0.00030 for ED and 0.00015 for profit.
So I expected 0.00225
I'm glad advise worked, as I knew it would.

1000 over ED is good enough...but you are very generous with your dollars, and the dealer should bend over backwards for you in service.

The MF for August went down to .00245, so you should be at a buy factor of .00205
 

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Not with ED.

The car is yours when you sign, even though it's rotting in a lot in München.
UCC governs consumer agreements. No delivery of product, no transfer of title - no transaction.

The simple reason the dealer was so accommodating to Casper, OP, is because they know that they don't have a leg to stand on if he were to say: "I cancel, sorry for your trouble" Or in the case of a New Yorker 'FUGEDABOUDIT' :confused:
 
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