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into things retro
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Discussion Starter · #2 · (Edited)

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into things retro
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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Melissa said:
Thanks for helping out - I actually thought Mathew was making a joke (along the lines of "where in Sam Hill . . .") :doh:

But I wasn't kidding about the absence of 2 of the big BMW teams, TMS and TecMark. We'll see who's at the next race . . .
 

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scottn2retro said:
Thanks for helping out - I actually thought Matthew was making a joke (along the lines of "where in Sam Hill . . .") :doh:
I wasn't sure either so I decided to assume it was a legitimate question. :D
 

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Do the interns get Glocks
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Melissa said:
I wasn't sure either so I decided to assume it was a legitimate question. :D
And the weather was absolutly perfect....but a bit windy.

Mellisa, if you hadnt heard the Bayfront Center was just torn down. :cry:
Saw some of my first concerts at that venue.
 

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scottn2retro said:
Thanks for helping out - I actually thought Mathew was making a joke (along the lines of "where in Sam Hill . . .") :doh:

But I wasn't kidding about the absence of 2 of the big BMW teams, TMS and TecMark. We'll see who's at the next race . . .
Tecmark has entered the Jonsson and Martinelli cars. TMS will not be present.

That being said, only 26 cars entered in touring...lowest number that i can remember since 2000 or so. Missing are Stasis Audi's most notably (in addition to TMS). There is still a week until the event but regardless not a very good sign for SWC Touring, especially considering Atlanta typically has pretty strong fields (40+ from 2001-2003, 33 last yr at Petit). Tripoint (3), Realtime (5), and Bimmerworld (3) account for nearly half of the field.
 

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Interesting...I wonder if the ever increasing cost to compete in SWCT is starting to catch up to the series? I know a lot of folks have started giving Grand-Am Cup and even Grand-Am GT a more serious look these days...heck, with the new rules, it doesn't cost much more to build a Rolex GT car than a World Challenge Touring car these days.
 

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BMWRacerITS said:
Interesting...I wonder if the ever increasing cost to compete in SWCT is starting to catch up to the series? I know a lot of folks have started giving Grand-Am Cup and even Grand-Am GT a more serious look these days...heck, with the new rules, it doesn't cost much more to build a Rolex GT car than a World Challenge Touring
There is a discussion going on the SCCA BBS right now about it, no real "big wigs" have chimed in yet but some interesting points.
 

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into things retro
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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
It seemed like in 2003 the touring fields were overflowing (which led to a lot of carnage) and GT was hurting. With the addition of Viper Comp Coups, it looks like GT fields starting rebounding last year. But with rule changes in Touring that pulled back the capability of the most popular car in the field (BMW e46s), it looks to be having a negative impact on the class.

I thought last year was the most competitive, with several drivers and makes winning races. Even Bill only clinched on the last race. So I think the formula they had year was their best to date. Races were competitive, the REWARDS system seemed to work okay and championship was down to the last race. BMW won the manufacturers championship by pure numbers of cars/good teams (which may be why Acura and Mazda have so many this year), not because they were blowing away all the other makes. And the fields were decent size, even with what competitive cars cost, without as much on-track mayhem as in 2003 (Bimmerworld incidents excepted).

SWC may have been banking on more of an impact from allowing the 4 cyl. turbos in, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I would think adjusting things back to where they were in 2004 (along with adding the 4 cyl. turbos) would be going in the right direction.
 

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dhabes said:
There is a discussion going on the SCCA BBS right now about it, no real "big wigs" have chimed in yet but some interesting points.
Yeah, I've been through one of Mazda TC shops lately, in fact, I was just there today...the cost of entry for the new Mazda6 is astronomical. The motors and transmissions alone cost more than some of the "competitive" Touring cars cost just 3-4 years ago.

Getting faster and more advanced isn't really a bad thing in my book...unless it results in much smaller fields and less exciting racing. If that becomes a pattern, I think SCCA needs to pull things back.
 

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Scott, Acura and Mazda dont really have that much more this yr. Realtime had 5 cars last yr too. Tripoint added 1 more car which I guess is a pretty big improvement for them. Then you have protomotive which is running a mazda 6 with Scott Bradley this yr. At the same time there arent nearly as many proteges.

Bryan, I hear the tranny's are extremely expensive in those mazda's. Some people are calling for them to ditch those trannys and go back to the stock but we will see.
 

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into things retro
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
dhabes said:
Scott, Acura and Mazda dont really have that much more this yr. Realtime had 5 cars last yr too. Tripoint added 1 more car which I guess is a pretty big improvement for them. Then you have protomotive which is running a mazda 6 with Scott Bradley this yr. At the same time there arent nearly as many proteges.

Bryan, I hear the tranny's are extremely expensive in those mazda's. Some people are calling for them to ditch those trannys and go back to the stock but we will see.
I guess it just seems like more. When the fields get down to 25 cars at St. Pete and 8 of them are either A-Spec or MazdaSpeed, it just seems like ever other car on the track is with one of those teams.

But what I do think both of those teams have done is make some additions to their driver lineups (in anticipation of having to try to de-throne Billy A.)

I did look at Touring field sizes for Sebring:

2003: 41 cars
2004: 35 cars
2005: 31 cars
 

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dhabes said:
Scott, Acura and Mazda dont really have that much more this yr. Realtime had 5 cars last yr too. Tripoint added 1 more car which I guess is a pretty big improvement for them. Then you have protomotive which is running a mazda 6 with Scott Bradley this yr. At the same time there arent nearly as many proteges.
Don't forget the Tindol guys...they ran 3 Proteges at Sebring and have two Mazda6's still being built/tested. With Espenlaub driving, they'll probably be near the front with the new car too.

Bryan, I hear the tranny's are extremely expensive in those mazda's. Some people are calling for them to ditch those trannys and go back to the stock but we will see.
The cat's out of the bag...how does SCCA tell all the teams that they need to get rid of the $15-20K transmissions now? There are at least 7 Mazda6's running or under construction right now!
 

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dhabes said:
Bryan, I hear the tranny's are extremely expensive in those mazda's. Some people are calling for them to ditch those trannys and go back to the stock but we will see.
Didn't the Mazda's have problems with transmissions last year. Is Mazda still a favored by the SCCA brand?
 

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Steve, Some people would say that the Mazda is favored, this year they clearly have an advantage. They did fight tranny problems throughout the yr last yr though.

Bryan, Didn't SCCA tell Caddy they had to ditch their trannys last yr?
Granted its a factory effort but Id say Tripoint is gettin quite a bit of factory help too.
Either way the fact that teams are using 15-20k trannys now explains a lot about what is happening with the series.
 

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dhabes said:
Steve, Some people would say that the Mazda is favored, this year they clearly have an advantage. They did fight tranny problems throughout the yr last yr though.

Bryan, Didn't SCCA tell Caddy they had to ditch their trannys last yr?
Granted its a factory effort but Id say Tripoint is gettin quite a bit of factory help too.
Either way the fact that teams are using 15-20k trannys now explains a lot about what is happening with the series.
With the Favored Brand comment, I was referring to the memory of the Z4 debacle at the runoffs from a year or so ago. It came out then as though Mazda had more or less bought their way into a favored status with the SCCA. It looked like Cadillac was doing that last year, but in the end it didn't appear to be so.

Have they had to pay any penalty for such a trans? PTG always avoided the sequential gearboxes because they would get a weight penalty.
 
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