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Discussion Starter #1,601
Indeed. Everyone, myself included, got way better on track throughout the day.

Also, anyone care to guess which tire was on the right front of the car...? :rofl:

Holy crap! Were you running wet R comps on a dry track?
 

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BMWCCA HPDE Instructor
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They are Toyo RA1s, which are used for racing in the dry (mostly). After the tread is gone, they have a long life as slicks.
 

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#butstuff2k16
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RknLwRWoqBY

Made a little comparison video of my fastest clean and fastest dirty runs today. Pause it at specific elements and you can see how I was nearly even on the way down, but made crazy time up on the way back by running a tighter line and not lifting. Now I just need to learn how to drive tight and fast consistently.
 

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When's the last time you had an alignment and what are the specs?
Alignment probably within 4k miles. Don't recall the specs, but there is no mystery here. I just need more negative camber up front so the front right tire loads up more evenly when turning left. Both of the tracks I drive at here run counter-clockwise, so you spend most of the time turning left. I think my negative camber is currently a little under 2 degrees. Will probably want to go to -2.5.

Intermediate C. Most of the other drivers in my run group were soloed by the second day. I think my instructor just enjoyed being in the car with me.
Gotcha. Yeah, some instructors are more hands-on than others. While I do try to make good use of the instructors when they're around, I agree that it can be very helpful to drive solo and not be constantly chatting during the run.
 

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Discussion Starter #1,607
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RknLwRWoqBY

Made a little comparison video of my fastest clean and fastest dirty runs today. Pause it at specific elements and you can see how I was nearly even on the way down, but made crazy time up on the way back by running a tighter line and not lifting. Now I just need to learn how to drive tight,clean, and fast consistently.
Fixed! :)
 

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#butstuff2k16
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Can't be fast without taking some risks and coning some runs. :p

I need to learn to go faster in earlier runs to be able to clean up my last runs. If I had 6 runs I probably would have cleaned that dirty run up and only lost a few tenths. Too bad the big autox events allow 3 runs, so I'd be SOL anyway.
 

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Discussion Starter #1,609
One of the guys in our SCCA region takes an all out on the 1st and 2nd run approach. He might take out 6-8 cones on his first run, then a cone, maybe two on his 2nd. For his 3rd run he's clean most of the time and just ridiculously quick. He's won at nationals (I believe in 3 different classes) and probably trophied a dozen times, so his method seems to work.
His philosophy is clean runs do you no good if you're not the fastest. It's a first place or fail approach, but damn does he put down quick times when he has good runs.
I've been trying to do a bit more of this for this season, but I'll admit it's hard to go out and plow over a lot of cones.
 

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#butstuff2k16
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but I'll admit it's hard to go out and plow over a lot of cones.
Very true. I am either too conservative, or just plow through my braking zones when I try to go all out. I just ordered some Hawk HP+ front pads to go along with my Stoptech Street rear pads, so that's no longer an excuse now. Slowly making my way to a full STX build. :D
 

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Very true. I am either too conservative, or just plow through my braking zones when I try to go all out. I just ordered some Hawk HP+ front pads to go along with my Stoptech Street rear pads, so that's no longer an excuse now. Slowly making my way to a full STX build. :D
I just installed HP Plus pads and new rotors all around 2 weeks ago. I was happy with the PF Z rated for AutoX, but I had some concerns about them for the PDXs coming at Daytona. Doing full IMSA road course this Friday and then two more there in the early fall, plus possibly two full course events at Sebring.
I ran the first autoX with them this past weekend. Tons of stopping power, but the jury's still out on if the modulation is good enough at lower speeds. I had a couple of lock ups that were unintended, but it might just be that the point in the pedal travel has moved with the new pads/rotors.
They were a royal pain to get bedded in......
 

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#butstuff2k16
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I just installed HP Plus pads and new rotors all around 2 weeks ago. I was happy with the PF Z rated for AutoX, but I had some concerns about them for the PDXs coming at Daytona. Doing full IMSA road course this Friday and then two more there in the early fall, plus possibly two full course events at Sebring.
I ran the first autoX with them this past weekend. Tons of stopping power, but the jury's still out on if the modulation is good enough at lower speeds. I had a couple of lock ups that were unintended, but it might just be that the point in the pedal travel has moved with the new pads/rotors.
They were a royal pain to get bedded in......
You aren't worried about overheating the HP+ pads on the track?

Based on Hawk's pad chart, the HP+ don't have much better of a heat range than OEM pads, but they bite like crazy even when cold. I don't plan on doing any HPDE's anytime soon as they never work with my schedule, so I wasn't worried about the temperature range. I did flip flop between HP+ and EBC Yellowstuff, but ultimately went with HP+ as that was what other E36 STX guys were running and the EBC's were kind of an unknown.
 

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Discussion Starter #1,614 (Edited)
You aren't worried about overheating the HP+ pads on the track?

Based on Hawk's pad chart, the HP+ don't have much better of a heat range than OEM pads, but they bite like crazy even when cold. I don't plan on doing any HPDE's anytime soon as they never work with my schedule, so I wasn't worried about the temperature range. I did flip flop between HP+ and EBC Yellowstuff, but ultimately went with HP+ as that was what other E36 STX guys were running and the EBC's were kind of an unknown.
While they tolerate the same temp range, in theory the much higher grip means they're applied for a shorter time to achieve the same bleed off of speed so hopefully that means overall they run cooler. When I did the shorter course PDX a couple weeks ago the brake temps were running about 400F so there's another 200F of range to work with before they'd go above optimal range. By Friday evening I'll know the answer! :thumbup:

My HP plus are soooo loud
Mine were ridiculous initially, but after a second round of bedding them in they've gotten a lot better. I did fifteen 40 to zero really hard stops on the street by my house and then coasted into the driveway without touching the brake pedal, then I let them cool overnight. Made a huge difference.
 

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I've not heard good things about the HP+ pads when used in full track conditions. Hawk's website says they're not designed for scenarios requiring high deceleration rates (i.e., road courses), or if used on tracks in cars over 2800lbs. In other words, it seems that they're great for auto-x where brake temps are relatively low and only quick jabs are needed. But if you don't get carried away and push too hard at the track, they will probably hold up well enough to get you through your day.
 

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Discussion Starter #1,616
I've not heard good things about the HP+ pads when used in full track conditions. Hawk's website says they're not designed for scenarios requiring high deceleration rates (i.e., road courses), or if used on tracks in cars over 2800lbs. In other words, it seems that they're great for auto-x where brake temps are relatively low and only quick jabs are needed. But if you don't get carried away and push too hard at the track, they will probably hold up well enough to get you through your day.
They're referencing pavement circle tracks which are particularly brutal on brakes, but the HP Plus are listed by Hawk as their entry level motorsports pads.
 

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Ambitious But Rubbish
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Well, I just paid my deposit so I'll be back on the same Chump Car team as last summer, for another 24 hour race at VIR this August!

 

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Here's the video from my last session at yesterday's PDX at Daytona. We ran the full IMSA circuit. I've done parade laps on it before at low speed and the high bank turns seemed pretty wide. At speed it feels about the width of a sidewalk! Those NASCAR drivers that run 3 wide have got stones the size of beach balls....
On the short course we've run previously and in the first two sessions I left traction control turned on so that I'd have ABS available if needed. In the first session I could feel the DTC occasionally kicking in about 2/3 of the way through the high banks, and in the 2nd session I got a bunch of warning lights (ABS, DTC, tire pressure) coming out of NASCAR turn 2 so I had to pit. As it turned out everyone came in just behind me because one of the other drivers put his '16 Z07 'Vette into the wall by IMSA turn 1.
For the 3rd session I turned off all the nannies and picked up considerable speed through the infield section and on the high banks since there wasn't any periodic application of the rear brakes. I knew that DTC was kicking in coming out of all the of the infield turns, but until I turned it off I didn't realize how much it was slowing me down. Should have know from Autocross experience though.
Looking forward to doing this again in August now that I've got a better feel for the track and those monster high banks. :thumbup:

https://youtu.be/LivRETKIt-g
 

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Looks like awesome fun, Don. How did your brakes & tires hold up?

Also, in having driven that circuit countless times in Forza, I always find the braking zones into turn 1 and the bus stop to be very challenging to get right. How was it in real life?
 

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Looks like awesome fun, Don. How did your brakes & tires hold up?

Also, in having driven that circuit countless times in Forza, I always find the braking zones into turn 1 and the bus stop to be very challenging to get right. How was it in real life?
Braking into turn 1 was probably the most difficult because there's so much pavement in that area and it's really difficult to pick something to use as a braking point. It's very much by feel and you're coming off your highest speed. Coming into the bus stop they have braking point markers on the fence so it's easier to pick a mark, but the entrance is really difficult to see until you're pretty close. If you enter too fast you'll drop wheels off track on the exit so there's a tendency (at least for me) to err on the side of a bit slower.
The HP Plus pads did awesome. No fade, plenty of bite once they were warmed up and the modulation was pretty good. I wasn't braking at the 100% threshold, but probably >90% most of the time. At the speeds I was reaching all it would have taken would be a momentary lock up to flat spot a tire and I definitely didn't want to do that......
 
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