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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Of all places, I was driving in downtown Concord, NH, to a local restaurant on South Main St. While stopped at a light, a U-Haul box truck pulled up beside my pristine 2009 Z4 3.0 Sdrive. When the light changed the driver of the U-Haul decided to go straight, then had to change lanes to the right, into the side of my Z. His right front wheel started at the rear bumper, ripped the bumper, continued along the quarter panel, and then onto the drivers door, crushing it past the bottom brace. Then onto the fender. The police were called, and the U-Haul driver was cited for dangerous lane change resulting in a accident. I had to get a estimate for the U-Haul insurance company, it came to over $7800.00. The body shop said it may be hard to get some of the parts. Now, the U-Hauls company want to send their claim person to look at the car. Hopefully it will not be a total loss. Here is a profile photo.
Wheel Tire Vehicle Plant Car
 

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They probably owe you a rental car until yours if fixed, starting now. I say "probably" because you car might still be drivable. If they fix it, they owe you a rental car while yours is in the shop. Rental cars are really expensive now, and if you're waiting for parts for weeks, that will push them toward totaling it ASAP. That rear quarter panel, unlike the door and front fender, is a structural part of the car.

KBB says your car's worth around $20k. That's amazing for a twelve year old car, but those are cool cars and times are crazy now. You might get it fixed because of that. Lawyer up, and hit them for diminished value compensation, too. U-Haul's insurance carrier would love to write you a check for $7800 and be done with you. Don't fall for that.
 

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Sorry to see this! My 2016 Z4 had a clean Carfax when I bought it in June and it got hit in the rear before I took the temporary plate off. The body shop found additional damage after they took the car apart, so $7800 might not be enough. I had to wait about 3 weeks for the rear bumper cover to come in from Germany. My car was drivable and I was given a rental car. The insurance company didn't want to pay the charges for the scans (they do a scan before they start and then another when finished) so I got stuck with the bill for that (thanks #StateFarm).

Good luck with the repairs and keep us posted!
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Yesterday, U-Hauls insurance called to inform me that the $7800 was to high estimate for them to approve in-house. So, they sent the data to a outside estimator. He came today and didn't say much about the original estimate. He did take a close look at the rear wheel, and bounced the suspension. He looked under the car and found something, and took a picture about midship of the quarter panel. He would not comment on the damage nor discuss the original estimate. So, I'll just have to see how it washes out. I'll be looking for a lawyer once I get all the estimates in. He did say the car was not totaled, since the top goes up and down without a problem. He got a little testy when I mentioned the light in the left door handle not working, and a "oil can" dent inside the left door. That type of denting indicates stress bending. You can see where the doors cross rib is located by the doors photo. A bend in this cross member would cause the "oil can" bend in that door. On aircraft, a oil can dent indicated airframe damage from a hard, or over weight landing. The original estimate indicated a new door to replace the original. On the original estimate the left door shell would cost $1502 to replace. As it sits now, I have to really slam the door to get a good closure, and the window to drop 1/2 inch when opening and closing going up. I don't think the latch is lining up properly door to frame. That door did take a hard hit from the front wheel of the truck. During the impact I had to hold the steering wheel tightly to keep the car on the road, and not jump the curb into a restaurant seating area. So time will tell how this pans out. I'll keep ya'll posted.
Wheel Tire Car Vehicle Automotive lighting
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Since the accident I got to take the car onto the Interstate, and get it up to speed. I noticed a shimmy in the rear end. I think it is possibly in the left wheel. It shows impact damage on all the spokes. It is possibly bent, and the tire has some sidewall scraping damage. It is a run flat, so the sidewall is thick. I bounced the left rear wheel and listened for some noise, only a squishing sound could be heard. I bounced the right side to compare. The same sound was there but not as loud. Until a body shop starts working on the car, will all the damage be revealed. Hopefully, the insurance company will be able to amend the claim should further damage be revealed. The insurance company did offer a rental car, of course there is a big "but". They will reimburse me for rental charges of $40-$50 per day. The body shop said I would be out of my car for 3 weeks, since the weather will make painting difficult in cold New Hampshire, weather. Time will tell how all this will sort out. Let me know your thoughts, and experience. Thanks.
 

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Realistically, its basically impossible to paint match a tri-stage pearl white. I 100% guarantee you are not going to like the finished product if you fix that car without painting every inch of it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
From what I'm experiencing about rental cars. I can get a rental for the amount the agency wants to pay. I'll not be much more than a powered roller skate type car. I'll be at the mercy of the reimbursement strategy of the insurance company. I'm thinking there is more damage than what meets the eye. Travelling to Manchester, NH, last night, on the I93, I noted a louder than normal roar in the rear end of the car. I could not locate the roar to the right or left side, but more in the middle. I'm thinking when the truck hit the left rear wheel it damaged something in either the rear end, or left wheel bearing. The wheel shows a good bit of damage on the spokes, and damage on quarter panel. I'll have it looked into for sure. About the paint. I did some touch up over large scratches on the rear bumper two years ago. The true color of the car is #300, Alpine White. I sanded the scratches, cleaned, applied the actual paint, sanded lightly, applied clear coat, buffed, applied more clear coat, and did a final buffing. The color match was perfect. As things now stand, I'm awaiting the estimate from the insurance companies outside estimator. That should be in Monday, or Tuesday. I'm sure the estimator will advise the insurance company first, so they can massage it in their favor, before it is forwarded to me. I'll keep ya'll posted as this saga plays out.
 

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The initial estimate shouldn’t be a huge concern as long as:
1. The car is not declared a total loss.
2. You are planning to have the car repaired, and not accept a payout based on the estimate.

If they declare it a total loss, then the estimate becomes secondary.
Your real fight will be in reaching an acceptable fair market value that they will pay you for the totaled vehicle.
Although if it a close decision between repair and total, their market valuation (payout amount) and repair estimate may come back into play if you are negotiating back and forth on trying to push them in the direction of either a repair or a total based on your desires for the situation.

As was stated, if they decide to proceed with a repair do NOT accept a payout for the initial estimate.
You have the right to take it to the repair shop of your choosing, and then the insurance company can pay them directly as the repairs proceed.
You don’t have to take it to a shop they recommend.
It is very common for more things to be discovered by the repair shop as they begin the repairs, and for them to file supplements to the initial estimate with the insurance company to pay for the needed additional repairs.
If you accept a payout/settlement based on the initial estimate then you lose the ability/right to have the insurance company pay for repairs to any additional damage found once the repairs begin.

And as was also mentioned, if the car is not totaled and will be repaired then begin to look into diminished value laws in your state, and attorneys who specialize in diminished value claims.
In short this is the value your car will lose, just because of the fact that it was in an accident, regardless and even if the repairs theoretically were done to perfect factory condition.

If 2 used cars were theoretically exactly the same in every way conceivable, and one was in an accident (and perfectly repaired) and the other was not.
The car in the accident would be worth less in the real marketplace just because of the accident history alone.
Diminished value claims seek to recover that real loss of value that you will incur due to the accident, when you go to sell or trade the vehicle.

If your preference is for the car to be repaired, I would not mention anything to the insurance company about diminished value until after the repair is completed.
If you would rather it be totaled, then mention it right away as the potential cost of this claim will factor into the decision.
 

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Time will tell how all this will sort out. Let me know your thoughts, and experience. Thanks.
I was involved in an accident where I was turning right from a right hand turn lane and where I had a green arrow.
I was turning onto a road that had 2 lanes in the direction I was turning.
A lady turning left onto the same road ran through her yellow/red light.
Even so, we would have been fine had she stayed in the left lane while I was turning into the right lane.
But she drove into the right lane and directly into the side of my car.

The officer that came to the scene ticketed her.
But she insisted that it was my fault, I guess I should have stopped for her to run her light and turn into the wrong lane.

Her insurance company came out and did the estimate at my work.
A couple of days later I get a call from the claims adjuster who tells me that she puts the accident at 50/50 fault because even though the other driver ran the light and came into my lane on the turn, I had 50% responsibility for not avoiding her.

Their initial estimate was around $3,000, so the claims adjuster “graciously” offered to cut me a check for $1,500 to settle the claim.

I told her no thanks and immediately filed the claim with my insurance company.
I had already been in contact with them previously and given them my statement.
I had to pay my $500 deductible to proceed with repairs, but then they would fight it out with the other drivers insurance for 100% liability.

In the mean time the other driver paid her ticket, which is pleading guilty, so I made sure to forward that information to my insurance company.
Her insurance company still didn’t want to budge, so it ended up going to a third party arbitration for a final binding decision.
They ruled she was 100% at fault and they had to pay back my insurance for the total actual cost of the repair which ended up being around $7,000 and my deductible was refunded.
I made sure to go to one of the best body shops in the city, and since my insurance was initially paying for it, her insurance had no say so in any of the repair costs or supplements, but in the end had to pay the total cost.

Then to top it off, I ended up asking them for diminished value.
They didn’t want to hear it so I got an attorney and filed a lawsuit.
A lot of times for smaller dollar lawsuits, big companies will just pay them to avoid attorney fees.
But they were going to fight it, either I pissed them off real good, or they were doing it for reputation that they fight diminished value claims.
Because they would have to be planning on spending more on attorneys than the value of the claim.

I ended up moving out of state right before my deposition was being scheduled.
So I dropped the lawsuit, because it would have been very inconvenient and uneconomical to have to travel back and forth for a $3k potential.

The car was 2010 Hyundai Genesis that was about 6 years old.
The newer and more expensive the car is, the more the diminished value will likely be.
As an accident will have more impact on the resale value of a brand new luxury car than it will on a 15 year old basic commuter car.
 

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I assume there is nothing in your state laws that limit rental car reimbursement to “40-50 per day”….

And I assume you dont have a policy with haul that likewise limits you.

They may indeed WANT to limit it to that, but legally they cannot. In most states they are LIABLE for the actual costs you incur. If a car costs $110 a day, and nobody can rent a car at 40, then that is what they will eventually pay. If not willingly, after you sue them. Small claims works.

Having said this., most people dont have the balls/money to challenge them.\

Sorry to hear
….
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thanks for all your input on my situation. The U-Haul driver was certainly ticketed for improper dangerous lane change. So, he owns this accident, and so does U-Haul. I'm not really worried about renting a replacement car, while mine is in the shop. I'm fully aware of how to make recovery of all my cash outlay over the accident. I have discovered further damage than was estimated. I've also heard of Diminished Value, but have never saw how it worked. I will say, the 2009 BMW Z4 E89, will become a classic over the years, due mainly to the hard top convertible being the last of the breed. I do keep a tab on how much these Z cars fetch on the market. I've seen cars exactly like mine, same options, as much as $22,000. That's much more than I paid for my Z. I've researched for names of successful accident claim attorneys in Concord, NH. When everything falls into place I'll seek a consultation. Thanks again for all your input.
 

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Cool


Who is managing the repairs, inspections and estimating? You/your shop? …or whomever Uhaul wants?

What do YOU want out of this? Repair or total? If you keep finding issues, being a PITA up front, start talking Diminished value (DV) they may just total it.

You DONT need to press this all up front onto one single pile of money. IMO the key person in the process is YOUR body shop guy/. He needs to know he is working for you and you will have his back with the insurer. let him manage the insurance- they find stuff, they add onto the claim. Just NEVER sign anything, nor accept a check w any endorsements.

Read up on DV in NH. “Accident ‘attorneys” should really be called “When someone is INJURED in an Accident Attorney”. IMO you will be very disappointed. But give it a shot. There are companies that can put together the info you might need for a DV claim. Atty or not.
 

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Recently I had a lady back into my front bumper and apparently punch out a PDC sensor. She instantly accepted liability and contacted her insurance company Allstate. They agreed and required a preliminary estimate by photograph and e-mail. $1400.

I had the repair done at BMW Service Center body shop, which manager I have gotten to know a bit over the years. The final bill was ~ $4500. The new hood alone was $1600

Knowing what I know now, I would have called my great insurance company, let them cover the repair work and bill Allstate.
 

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There are companies that can put together the info you might need for a DV claim. Atty or not.
Yeah, you definitely want people/companies that specialize in diminished value.
At the time I had my accident, 2016, it wasn’t extremely common knowledge.
But I would assume as the years pass and more people pursue them, insurance companies react accordingly.

The attorney I hired, had several diminished value appraisers he worked with.
They specialize in this field and not just general car value appraisals, as they have to take multiple market conditions into consideration when determining the value they think you would lose due to the accident, if you were to sell the car.
And that value is supposed to be considered/taken at the time of the accident/repair, regardless of if/when you eventually sell the car.

If your car does get repaired and you pursue DV.
You may be able to find a local DV appraiser and present his appraisal to the insurance company.
If they are willing to accept the claim, you could save the hassle of attorneys and court, and keep more of the claim payout for yourself.

The attorney I got specialized in this area, and his fee for these claims/cases was percentage based on the final award, so no up front costs or billing of hours.
But I would imagine in most cases, insurance companies probably just want to quickly settle DV claims that become lawsuits. So he probably didn’t have to put a lot of time and effort into most cases.
Although the amount of the claim would also likely be a factor in how they proceed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Hi all, I've been doing my homework on the question of Diminished Value. Seems both lawyers I've spoke to have the same outlook. The insurance companies have become both financially, and politically involved to limit how DV is calculated in the courts. It looks like the States, who allow DV claims, have loaded the way the claims are calculated. First step is to find the actual sale value of your car. They will only accept either NADA, or Kelly Blue Book values, as your basis for a DV claim. Then you have to reduce the value, by a percentage based on age. (when you look up your cars value, you use model in every case, and this determines age. ) Then another reduction by percentage based on mileage. (they give a table of mileage, and the amount of percentage) The next step is based on the damage of your repair, this is based on how many panels have to be replaced, or if repaired or straightened, with no replacement parts. Of course the more damage the higher the percentage. So, if you have a older car, but very pristine, you will have very little DV in your claim. The only way to really win a good DV suite is to drive a new, expensive car that has a high original value, since you have to use the NADA, or Kelly Blue Book to calculate the starting value. Now, I'm fighting the Insurance company about the value of the repair estimates. I've a estimate from a local body shop, which I thought was a good reference of the repairs. The insurance company sent their own adjuster to look at my Z4. The difference between the two adjusters was only $94.00. The actual difference in repairs was the value of the replacement of the rear left wheel, vs refurbish, and cost of the tire. The adjuster did use the replacement value of the tire, but deducted for tread wear. The body shop used the replacement cost of the tire, at 100%. Both made note of supplements should they be needed for non-visible damage. Neither estimate made no note of internal damage to the door, latches, and window parts, nor any mention of wheel bearings, axels, or suspension parts. I've noted both wheel sounds, and suspension sounds, so the car will have to be checked once it is opened up, and inspected for further damage. So, I'll have to wait and see.
 

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someone hit my passenger side when my car was parked and put dents in both passenger side doors. The BMW collision center said that they can't repair aluminum doors and needed to replace the skins. They did try first so I suspect that the insurance company told them to. They then replaced both door skins. So be careful, your estimate may be based on repairs where replacement is needed.
 

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Hi all, I've been doing my homework on the question of Diminished Value. Seems both lawyers I've spoke to have the same outlook. The insurance companies have become both financially, and politically involved to limit how DV is calculated in the courts. It looks like the States, who allow DV claims, have loaded the way the claims are calculated. First step is to find the actual sale value of your car. They will only accept either NADA, or Kelly Blue Book values, as your basis for a DV claim. Then you have to reduce the value, by a percentage based on age. (when you look up your cars value, you use model in every case, and this determines age. ) Then another reduction by percentage based on mileage. (they give a table of mileage, and the amount of percentage) The next step is based on the damage of your repair, this is based on how many panels have to be replaced, or if repaired or straightened, with no replacement parts. Of course the more damage the higher the percentage. So, if you have a older car, but very pristine, you will have very little DV in your claim. The only way to really win a good DV suite is to drive a new, expensive car that has a high original value, since you have to use the NADA, or Kelly Blue Book to calculate the starting value. Now, I'm fighting the Insurance company about the value of the repair estimates. I've a estimate from a local body shop, which I thought was a good reference of the repairs. The insurance company sent their own adjuster to look at my Z4. The difference between the two adjusters was only $94.00. The actual difference in repairs was the value of the replacement of the rear left wheel, vs refurbish, and cost of the tire. The adjuster did use the replacement value of the tire, but deducted for tread wear. The body shop used the replacement cost of the tire, at 100%. Both made note of supplements should they be needed for non-visible damage. Neither estimate made no note of internal damage to the door, latches, and window parts, nor any mention of wheel bearings, axels, or suspension parts. I've noted both wheel sounds, and suspension sounds, so the car will have to be checked once it is opened up, and inspected for further damage. So, I'll have to wait and see.
That’s insurance companies.
They’ve got the politicians in their pocket, and of course once people really started going after them they made sure to “fix” it in their favor.
Although eventually diminished value payouts on a large scale would/will be passed onto the consumers in the form of higher premiums.

After my wreck and the repair was completed I did a couple of those cash offer quotes out of curiosity.
I think I used KBB but don’t remember for sure, I believe they were doing them then (partnered with local dealerships), I know it wasn’t Carmax.

I input all of information about the car but didn’t include any accident information, as if it was a clean/accident free car.
After I got that offer I then ran another quote but included all of the details about the accident/repairs.
There was a difference of $2k-$3k if I remember correctly.
IMO that is actually fairly realistic of true diminished value, as long as both quotes are from the same company.
That is real cash offer that you could actually take them up on, and shows the exact difference the same company would pay you for the car with and without the accident history.
How much they would pay vs a private party sale or vs another company isn’t particularly relevant, the main thing I was interested in was the difference between the two quotes from the same company.

I’m not sure if the companies (Carmax, Carvana, etc.) doing them now run the vehicle history prior to the initial cash offer.
If they do then it may not work anymore.
But I know they give cash offers over the internet without an inspection, with an inspection before final acceptance of the vehicle for the offer price.

So if they give the initial cash offer based off of what you input and run a vehicle history later, as long as the only difference is the accident/repair details, it should give an accurate picture of the difference in price they would pay.

It sounds like this wouldn’t have any bearing on a claim that went to court.
But may satisfy your curiosity.
And may still consider throwing the numbers at them and see if they bite.
They may laugh at you, but if they think you’re serious about getting an attorney (even if you’re not) maybe they consider it or hit you with a counter offer
to avoid potential litigation.
Even if it wasn’t much, and you weren’t planning on pursuing through legal channels, if they did offer something it would only have cost you a phone conversation.
 
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