BimmerFest BMW Forum banner
1 - 20 of 41 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
341 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have inspected both front wheels suspension rubber bushings visually and by using a crowbar but seemed to be all okay. The only findings were the rubber boots and hard foam of the front struts were bad as in attached pictures. There is no oil leak of the struts.
The vibration happens when touching the brakes even at my driveway going forward and not on reverse . It happens only at braking but not at taking off.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
341 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
I replaced front and rear brakes
I did not notice any obvious deformed disk.
Does the torn hard rubber of the struts as in the pictures have to do anything with the issueI’m having
 

·
Registered
Ship Captain of the Ever Given
Joined
·
2,055 Posts
So you didn’t replace the rotors? I doubt you can see rotor thickness variations or runout by eyeballing it ( what most people call “warped” rotors ).
 

·
Registered
Ship Captain of the Ever Given
Joined
·
2,055 Posts
While traditional teaching is that when one brake pad wears more than another it is indicative of a caliper or slide issue this is not always the case with the large array of brake designs now available. It’s pretty common on several models now for this uneven wear to occur. While this does occur occasionally it can also absolutely be a sign of a problem such as a seized caliper piston or lack of lubrication or collapsed rubber brake hose. This is where experience and knowledge of that brake system comes into play. I would have your brake system inspected by a certified professional for an accurate diagnosis of your problem. I personally suspect you just need rotors but could potentially have a caliper sticking.
 

·
Lost but making good time
3er + 3er + 4er = 10er, Bimmers?!
Joined
·
5,858 Posts
The vibration happens when touching the brakes even at my driveway going forward and not on reverse . It happens only at braking but not at taking off.
What are we supposed to be seeing in this video? Is that the "vibration"? It's hard to hear but it seems that you touch the brakes, hear/feel one "clunk!", and the steering wheels tugs to the left. This repeats each time you creep forward and brake. Is that correct?

If so, the rotors are not the prime suspect--there is tremendous play in your suspension somewhere. Perhaps it "seemed to be okay" but the pry-bar test doesn't tell you much without experience. "Yeah, that seems pretty tight" is usually wrong.

The condition of your bump stops (auxiliary dampers) and dust boots is especially concerning. Those are trashed. Your struts have probably been dead for a long time--they don't have to leak to be completely useless.

Have your suspension inspected by someone who is very familiar with the E90. You most likely need new struts, strut mounts, dust boots, bump stops, ... all the usual bits recommended with new struts, and quite possibly some new bushings and/or control arms as well. (The annoying truth of suspension wear is if one part fails, and is not repaired promptly, others soon follow.)
 

·
Lost but making good time
3er + 3er + 4er = 10er, Bimmers?!
Joined
·
5,858 Posts
Hang on a tick...I knew this seemed familiar.

You posted about this before: Brake issue. Per your post #4 in that thread, your car has 130,000+ miles on the original suspension. You were told--by the same people helping you here--that your brakes were not the problem, that your suspension needs to be inspected & overhauled, and that the condition would worsen with time.

So here we are, three months later, and, surprise--it's worse. And new brakes didn't fix it. Will you heed advice this time, or come up with a third way to ask the same question to try to get the answer you want to believe? There's no way to avoid spending money, here.

Your suspension is shot. "Smooth on the freeway" (quoting your other thread) means exactly nothing. I can make a little red wagon ride well on a freeway but you'll still get maimed trying to round a bumpy corner in it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ard and dukedkt442

·
Registered
E93 335i, somewhat mod <> Fog City, CA
Joined
·
2,754 Posts
.
Also @ 130,000+ mi your struts & shocks, if original, are way past needing replacement. Waaaaay past.

And the Z Man's right - strong possibility a bushing's worn. In your model, the bushing's sold pressed into the suspension arm, so to fix you'll be buying arms.

Um.....which model is this?

.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
341 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
What are we supposed to be seeing in this video? Is that the "vibration"? It's hard to hear but it seems that you touch the brakes, hear/feel one "clunk!", and the steering wheels tugs to the left. This repeats each time you creep forward and brake. Is that correct?

If so, the rotors are not the prime suspect--there is tremendous play in your suspension somewhere. Perhaps it "seemed to be okay" but the pry-bar test doesn't tell you much without experience. "Yeah, that seems pretty tight" is usually wrong.

The condition of your bump stops (auxiliary dampers) and dust boots is especially concerning. Those are trashed. Your struts have probably been dead for a long time--they don't have to leak to be completely useless.

Have your suspension inspected by someone who is very familiar with the E90. You most likely need new struts, strut mounts, dust boots, bump stops, ... all the usual bits recommended with new struts, and quite possibly some new bushings and/or control arms as well. (The annoying truth of suspension wear is if one part fails, and is not repaired promptly, others soon follow.)
yes the steering wheel tugs to the left but also the front wheels tug like if were skidding on ice and hit a rough spot. The slower I am driving and braking the more noticeable it gets. I will post a clip tomorrow to show the movement of the front wheels during braking
 

·
Registered
3/2007 328xi E91
Joined
·
3,637 Posts
... The vibration happens when touching the brakes even at my driveway going forward and not on reverse . It happens only at braking but not at taking off.
I replaced front and rear brakes. I did not notice any obvious deformed disk...
I took a picture of the front right side and front left side brake pads and noticed that the left side has one of the pad thinner than the other. Would this be a problem
yes the steering wheel tugs to the left but also the front wheels tug like if were skidding on ice and hit a rough spot. The slower I am driving and braking the more noticeable it gets.
I ONLY quoted your "Reports" related to the brakes. Since your complaints are ONLY about "Vibration on braking", and now "steering wheel tugs to the left" (presumably on braking going forward), it would be pure speculation to get into ANYTHING related to suspension. The exposure of the Strut piston rod due to boot failure will ultimately cause wear of seal inside Strut and less damping, but I can see NO WAY the Strut has anything to do with your issue, whatever that "vibration on braking" actually is.;)

Does the Steering wheel shake or "vibrate" side to side on light to moderate braking (commonly referred to as "Judder")? Please describe the vibration: what vibrates? Is vibration frequency speed-dependent? Is vibration intensity/amplitude affected by Braking Force/ Deceleration rate? If there is any "Pull"/"Tug" on wheel, does that occur to one side when brake is applied lightly, and then return to other side when brake is released? Is there a Different Pull which occurs when MORE pressure is applied to Brake Pedal?

Your "Reports" are unclear to me as to what was ever inspected or replaced in the Front Brakes. You have provided NO "Objective Findings" and/or "Specific Data", such as pad thickness, inboard vs. outboard; Guide Pin condition and any cleaning or replacement of Pins; Torque of Fasteners: Brake Caliper to Pad Carrier, Pad Carrier to Steering Knuckle; Thickness & Runout of Front Discs. ANY decent shop should inspect & MEASURE all of those things with proper caliper, torque wrench, or dial micrometer.

It would also be helpful to know WHEN/IF you changed the Front Pads, IF you ever replaced the Rotors, Whether you cleaned the "Hub-centric" surfaces on the Discs and Wheels before reinstalling the wheels, whether corrosion of those surfaces caused issues with wheel removal (stuck wheel after removing lugs), HOW (star-pattern) you tightened Wheel Lugs and to what torque. Was there any fluid leakage at either front Caliper Piston Seal? HOW did you press Piston back into caliper bore before installing New Pads? I'm NOT trying to discourage you from DIY, but simply suggesting that DETAILS MATTER, and attention to detail is necessary in many seemingly "SIMPLE" routine maintenance jobs.

I would suggest BEGINNING with providing:
1) EXACT, to nearest mm per caliper measurement, thickness of INBOARD pad vs. Outboard pad, Left side and Right side each identified.
2) Also, how many months or miles have those pads been installed?

YOU can't diagnose an issue WITHOUT proper tools to obtain DATA, and WE can't offer any meaningful opinions over the Web without such DATA from you. I don't mean to be condescending, but I do you NO favors by NOT citing WHY we can't really help without proper INPUT from YOU.

I don't understand from your "Input" to date (1) WHAT the Nature of the "Vibration" or "Tug"/Pull in the Steering Wheel is when you brake, OR (2) WHEN that vibration/pull occurs exactly. Those DETAILS are important to diagnose an issue.

For example IF there is vibration when FIRST applying brakes lightly at low speed, that would be consistent with Guide Pin issues preventing "Clamping" of Disc by pads, due to "push" by inboard pad mounted on piston, WITHOUT opposing "clamp" by outboard pad.

If you have a "Pull" or "Self-steering" to the Left when first applying brake lightly, and then a return "pull" to the Right when the brake is released. that indicates a "sticking" caliper piston on the Right. There are many other possible scenarios. The reason for the length of this post is NOT to try to solve your problem, but to try to present the REASONS why DETAILS are needed, coupled with a thorough understanding of HOW a system works, in order to DIAGNOSE the issue.
George
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,135 Posts
130000 miles? Take out EVERY suspension part that can be replaced, and replace it.
Like Z said, you ask question, you get answers you don’t like, and 3 months later you are asking again questions about same problem.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
341 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
So you didn’t replace the rotors? I doubt you can see rotor thickness variations or runout by eyeballing it ( what most people call “warped” rotors ).
I ONLY quoted your "Reports" related to the brakes. Since your complaints are ONLY about "Vibration on braking", and now "steering wheel tugs to the left" (presumably on braking going forward), it would be pure speculation to get into ANYTHING related to suspension. The exposure of the Strut piston rod due to boot failure will ultimately cause wear of seal inside Strut and less damping, but I can see NO WAY the Strut has anything to do with your issue, whatever that "vibration on braking" actually is.;)

Does the Steering wheel shake or "vibrate" side to side on light to moderate braking (commonly referred to as "Judder")? Please describe the vibration: what vibrates? Is vibration frequency speed-dependent? Is vibration intensity/amplitude affected by Braking Force/ Deceleration rate? If there is any "Pull"/"Tug" on wheel, does that occur to one side when brake is applied lightly, and then return to other side when brake is released? Is there a Different Pull which occurs when MORE pressure is applied to Brake Pedal?

Your "Reports" are unclear to me as to what was ever inspected or replaced in the Front Brakes. You have provided NO "Objective Findings" and/or "Specific Data", such as pad thickness, inboard vs. outboard; Guide Pin condition and any cleaning or replacement of Pins; Torque of Fasteners: Brake Caliper to Pad Carrier, Pad Carrier to Steering Knuckle; Thickness & Runout of Front Discs. ANY decent shop should inspect & MEASURE all of those things with proper caliper, torque wrench, or dial micrometer.

It would also be helpful to know WHEN/IF you changed the Front Pads, IF you ever replaced the Rotors, Whether you cleaned the "Hub-centric" surfaces on the Discs and Wheels before reinstalling the wheels, whether corrosion of those surfaces caused issues with wheel removal (stuck wheel after removing lugs), HOW (star-pattern) you tightened Wheel Lugs and to what torque. Was there any fluid leakage at either front Caliper Piston Seal? HOW did you press Piston back into caliper bore before installing New Pads? I'm NOT trying to discourage you from DIY, but simply suggesting that DETAILS MATTER, and attention to detail is necessary in many seemingly "SIMPLE" routine maintenance jobs.

I would suggest BEGINNING with providing:
1) EXACT, to nearest mm per caliper measurement, thickness of INBOARD pad vs. Outboard pad, Left side and Right side each identified.
2) Also, how many months or miles have those pads been installed?

YOU can't diagnose an issue WITHOUT proper tools to obtain DATA, and WE can't offer any meaningful opinions over the Web without such DATA from you. I don't mean to be condescending, but I do you NO favors by NOT citing WHY we can't really help without proper INPUT from YOU.

I don't understand from your "Input" to date (1) WHAT the Nature of the "Vibration" or "Tug"/Pull in the Steering Wheel is when you brake, OR (2) WHEN that vibration/pull occurs exactly. Those DETAILS are important to diagnose an issue.

For example IF there is vibration when FIRST applying brakes lightly at low speed, that would be consistent with Guide Pin issues preventing "Clamping" of Disc by pads, due to "push" by inboard pad mounted on piston, WITHOUT opposing "clamp" by outboard pad.

If you have a "Pull" or "Self-steering" to the Left when first applying brake lightly, and then a return "pull" to the Right when the brake is released. that indicates a "sticking" caliper piston on the Right. There are many other possible scenarios. The reason for the length of this post is NOT to try to solve your problem, but to try to present the REASONS why DETAILS are needed, coupled with a thorough understanding of HOW a system works, in order to DIAGNOSE the issue.
George
I ONLY quoted your "Reports" related to the brakes. Since your complaints are ONLY about "Vibration on braking", and now "steering wheel tugs to the left" (presumably on braking going forward), it would be pure speculation to get into ANYTHING related to suspension. The exposure of the Strut piston rod due to boot failure will ultimately cause wear of seal inside Strut and less damping, but I can see NO WAY the Strut has anything to do with your issue, whatever that "vibration on braking" actually is.;)

Does the Steering wheel shake or "vibrate" side to side on light to moderate braking (commonly referred to as "Judder")? Please describe the vibration: what vibrates? Is vibration frequency speed-dependent? Is vibration intensity/amplitude affected by Braking Force/ Deceleration rate? If there is any "Pull"/"Tug" on wheel, does that occur to one side when brake is applied lightly, and then return to other side when brake is released? Is there a Different Pull which occurs when MORE pressure is applied to Brake Pedal?

Your "Reports" are unclear to me as to what was ever inspected or replaced in the Front Brakes. You have provided NO "Objective Findings" and/or "Specific Data", such as pad thickness, inboard vs. outboard; Guide Pin condition and any cleaning or replacement of Pins; Torque of Fasteners: Brake Caliper to Pad Carrier, Pad Carrier to Steering Knuckle; Thickness & Runout of Front Discs. ANY decent shop should inspect & MEASURE all of those things with proper caliper, torque wrench, or dial micrometer.

It would also be helpful to know WHEN/IF you changed the Front Pads, IF you ever replaced the Rotors, Whether you cleaned the "Hub-centric" surfaces on the Discs and Wheels before reinstalling the wheels, whether corrosion of those surfaces caused issues with wheel removal (stuck wheel after removing lugs), HOW (star-pattern) you tightened Wheel Lugs and to what torque. Was there any fluid leakage at either front Caliper Piston Seal? HOW did you press Piston back into caliper bore before installing New Pads? I'm NOT trying to discourage you from DIY, but simply suggesting that DETAILS MATTER, and attention to detail is necessary in many seemingly "SIMPLE" routine maintenance jobs.

I would suggest BEGINNING with providing:
1) EXACT, to nearest mm per caliper measurement, thickness of INBOARD pad vs. Outboard pad, Left side and Right side each identified.
2) Also, how many months or miles have those pads been installed?

YOU can't diagnose an issue WITHOUT proper tools to obtain DATA, and WE can't offer any meaningful opinions over the Web without such DATA from you. I don't mean to be condescending, but I do you NO favors by NOT citing WHY we can't really help without proper INPUT from YOU.

I don't understand from your "Input" to date (1) WHAT the Nature of the "Vibration" or "Tug"/Pull in the Steering Wheel is when you brake, OR (2) WHEN that vibration/pull occurs exactly. Those DETAILS are important to diagnose an issue.

For example IF there is vibration when FIRST applying brakes lightly at low speed, that would be consistent with Guide Pin issues preventing "Clamping" of Disc by pads, due to "push" by inboard pad mounted on piston, WITHOUT opposing "clamp" by outboard pad.

If you have a "Pull" or "Self-steering" to the Left when first applying brake lightly, and then a return "pull" to the Right when the brake is released. that indicates a "sticking" caliper piston on the Right. There are many other possible scenarios. The reason for the length of this post is NOT to try to solve your problem, but to try to present the REASONS why DETAILS are needed, coupled with a thorough understanding of HOW a system works, in order to DIAGNOSE the issue.
George

The video clip shows a fraction of a second delay movement of both front wheels after braking. The Steering wheel also slightly tugs to the left however the car does not pull to either side during breaking even on the higher speed. One of the left wheel brake pads is thinner than the other as shown in the image attached. I have not replaced the brakes or rotors on this car, but a tremendous dust coating the rim every week.
The jerking movement or tugs or whatever the correct term does not shake the steering wheel continuously during long braking as in warped disc but rather one quick jerking movement.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
341 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·

The video clip shows a fraction

The video clip shows a fraction of a second delay movement of both front wheels after braking. The Steering wheel also slightly tugs to the left however the car does not pull to either side during breaking even on the higher speed. One of the left wheel brake pads is thinner than the other as shown in the image attached. I have not replaced the brakes or rotors on this car, but a tremendous dust coating the rim every week.
The jerking movement or tugs or whatever the correct term does not shake the steering wheel continuously during long braking as in warped disc but rather one quick jerking movement.
of a second delay movement of both front wheels after braking. The Steering wheel also slightly tugs to the left however the car does not pull to either side during breaking even on the higher speed. One of the left wheel brake pads is thinner than the other as shown in the image attached. I have not replaced the brakes or rotors on this car, but a tremendous dust coating the rim every week.
The jerking movement or tugs or whatever the correct term does not shake the steering wheel continuously during long braking as in warped disc but rather one quick jerking movement.

The video clip shows a fraction of a second delay movement of both front wheels after braking. The Steering wheel also slightly tugs to the left however the car does not pull to either side during breaking even on the higher speed. One of the left wheel brake pads is thinner than the other as shown in the image attached. I have not replaced the brakes or rotors on this car, but a tremendous dust coating the rim every week.
The jerking movement or tugs or whatever the correct term does not shake the steering wheel continuously during long braking as in warped disc but rather one quick jerking movement.
 

·
Lost but making good time
3er + 3er + 4er = 10er, Bimmers?!
Joined
·
5,858 Posts
The videos only confirm what we already knew. That is a huge amount of uncontrolled suspension movement.

Let's try this in letters of fire and see if the point comes across:

FIX YOUR SUSPENSION.

Your car is actually unsafe. Address this as soon as you possibly can, before you hurt yourself or someone else.

Stop fussing over your brakes; they are not the problem here. (It's entirely possible you have uneven pad wear because your suspension is so far gone--not the other way around.)
 
  • Like
Reactions: dukedkt442

·
Registered
Joined
·
341 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
The videos only confirm what we already knew. That is a huge amount of uncontrolled suspension movement.

Let's try this in letters of fire and see if the point comes across:

FIX YOUR SUSPENSION.

Your car is actually unsafe. Address this as soon as you possibly can, before you hurt yourself or someone else.

Stop fussing over your brakes; they are not the problem here. (It's entirely possible you have uneven pad wear because your suspension is so far gone--not the other way around.)
You may be knowledgeable but you do not have to be SOOOOOO mean and Blunt
 

·
Anti-Hack
Joined
·
6,174 Posts
I wouldn’t doubt you have a bearing problem. Jack up the left side with the tire off the ground, grab the tire firmly at 12 and 6 o’clock (0 and 180*) and firmly shake it. If there is ANY play, your wheel bearing is roached. If one is gone, the other isn’t far behind.

Asymmetrically uneven pad wear isn’t the cause, but a clue.


Via the interwebs
 
1 - 20 of 41 Posts
Top